FCA(Marchionne) says diesel is dead

[Travlingman]

Doesn't look good for those of us who like diesels. Sounds like the pollution controls are killing it. Article

[RobertRyan]

wilber1 wrote:

BenK wrote:
All electric still does NOT have the duty cycle for towing...hybrid yes, but not all electric

Battery size and cooling of both electric motor/batteries are the current issues

True, that's why trucks are different, but privately owned trucks used as tow vehicles represent a tiny portion of world wide diesel sales.

Difficult too assess. Pickups outside NA are all diesel and sales are increasing dramatically. Commercial operations are also diesel

[FishOnOne]

wnjj wrote:

ppine wrote:
Diesel is the proven technology that powers trucks and most other things world wide. In the US, politics and emission requirements have slowed the acceptance of diesels. The early diesels in the 1980s and early 1990s did not fare that well with the American consumer. A lot them are still on the road however.

Recently there have been several introductions of smaller effecient diesels in 1/2 ton and smaller US trucks. It is likely this trend will continue.

Diesels are born to work. They are scaled down industrial engines with longevity, effeciency and dependability. The more you drive and heavier you go the more you need a diesel.

Diesels will be around long after most gas engines have been retired, because they can run on less refined fuels including biodeisel which we can grow in an agricultural field or a pond. When hydrocarbons become more expensive, then we will be in the Age of Diesels for real.

The US has flirted with $4 plus per gallon gasoline before. Biodiesel is very competitive at those prices. It is a question of time before we get there again. The use of biodiesel made from algae is an ace in the hole. Then we will have an endless sustainable supply of energy for transportation.

Modern pickup diesels are not scaled down industrial engines. They are purposely designed for the task and longevity the need to fit. Maybe the “tractor motor” diesels of yesteryear could be described that way.

The issue with renewable carbon-based fuel is that carbon is out of style and considered pollution. Supply is only half of the concern.

You must be a millennium

[burningman]

FishOnOne wrote:

IdaD wrote:

Bobbo wrote:
It produces 470 lb-ft of torque at 2250 to 3500 RPM..

That's cute. Plus it only comes in a half ton (even cuter).

Compare the EcoBoost emission equipment to your cummins under the hood (cute) and then compare the EcoBoost exhaust to your cummins exhaust (even cuter).

That’s ALL cute. I’ll just run my pre-emissions-nightmare truck that makes more HP and torque than a new one and costs much less to maintain.
It was pretty expensive to build it this way but still less than a new one.
The Eco-Boost is fine for a half-ton that can’t carry my camper or tow my trailer - especially both at same time.

Don’t trade off your old trucks. Just go through them and put everything right.
Some people think I’m crazy to have twice the supposed Blue Book value into my older model. Others understand why I did that.

[wnjj]

ppine wrote:
Diesel is the proven technology that powers trucks and most other things world wide. In the US, politics and emission requirements have slowed the acceptance of diesels. The early diesels in the 1980s and early 1990s did not fare that well with the American consumer. A lot them are still on the road however.

Recently there have been several introductions of smaller effecient diesels in 1/2 ton and smaller US trucks. It is likely this trend will continue.

Diesels are born to work. They are scaled down industrial engines with longevity, effeciency and dependability. The more you drive and heavier you go the more you need a diesel.

Diesels will be around long after most gas engines have been retired, because they can run on less refined fuels including biodeisel which we can grow in an agricultural field or a pond. When hydrocarbons become more expensive, then we will be in the Age of Diesels for real.

The US has flirted with $4 plus per gallon gasoline before. Biodiesel is very competitive at those prices. It is a question of time before we get there again. The use of biodiesel made from algae is an ace in the hole. Then we will have an endless sustainable supply of energy for transportation.

Modern pickup diesels are not scaled down industrial engines. They are purposely designed for the task and longevity the need to fit. Maybe the “tractor motor” diesels of yesteryear could be described that way.

The issue with renewable carbon-based fuel is that carbon is out of style and considered pollution. Supply is only half of the concern.

[ppine]

Diesel is the proven technology that powers trucks and most other things world wide. In the US, politics and emission requirements have slowed the acceptance of diesels. The early diesels in the 1980s and early 1990s did not fare that well with the American consumer. A lot them are still on the road however.

Recently there have been several introductions of smaller effecient diesels in 1/2 ton and smaller US trucks. It is likely this trend will continue.

Diesels are born to work. They are scaled down industrial engines with longevity, effeciency and dependability. The more you drive and heavier you go the more you need a diesel.

Diesels will be around long after most gas engines have been retired, because they can run on less refined fuels including biodeisel which we can grow in an agricultural field or a pond. When hydrocarbons become more expensive, then we will be in the Age of Diesels for real.

The US has flirted with $4 plus per gallon gasoline before. Biodiesel is very competitive at those prices. It is a question of time before we get there again. The use of biodiesel made from algae is an ace in the hole. Then we will have an endless sustainable supply of energy for transportation.

[deltabravo]

Tyler0215 wrote:
I sure wouldn't listen to that clown. He's almost run Chrysler into the ground.

LOL
Best response yet.

[John___Angela]

NJRVer wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

BenK wrote:
All electric still does NOT have the duty cycle for towing...hybrid yes, but not all electric

Battery size and cooling of both electric motor/batteries are the current issues

True, that's why trucks are different, but privately owned trucks used as tow vehicles represent a tiny portion of world wide diesel sales.

It will be interesting to see if the Electric Truck manufacturers like Tesla and Volvo will make a light duty variant. Eg, instead of a 500 mile version meant to tow 80,000 pounds maybe a 400 mile unit meant to tow a 30,000 pound load. 400 Kw battery, lower profile, chargeable at a supercharger with dual Superchargers. They would probably have buyers at 100 grand. Don’t know how much of a market there would be though.

Probably huge!
Think of all the box trucks you see on the road everyday.

Yah I suppose.

[NJRVer]

John & Angela wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

BenK wrote:
All electric still does NOT have the duty cycle for towing...hybrid yes, but not all electric

Battery size and cooling of both electric motor/batteries are the current issues

True, that's why trucks are different, but privately owned trucks used as tow vehicles represent a tiny portion of world wide diesel sales.

It will be interesting to see if the Electric Truck manufacturers like Tesla and Volvo will make a light duty variant. Eg, instead of a 500 mile version meant to tow 80,000 pounds maybe a 400 mile unit meant to tow a 30,000 pound load. 400 Kw battery, lower profile, chargeable at a supercharger with dual Superchargers. They would probably have buyers at 100 grand. Don’t know how much of a market there would be though.

Probably huge!
Think of all the box trucks you see on the road everyday.

[John___Angela]

wilber1 wrote:

BenK wrote:
All electric still does NOT have the duty cycle for towing...hybrid yes, but not all electric

Battery size and cooling of both electric motor/batteries are the current issues

True, that's why trucks are different, but privately owned trucks used as tow vehicles represent a tiny portion of world wide diesel sales.

It will be interesting to see if the Electric Truck manufacturers like Tesla and Volvo will make a light duty variant. Eg, instead of a 500 mile version meant to tow 80,000 pounds maybe a 400 mile unit meant to tow a 30,000 pound load. 400 Kw battery, lower profile, chargeable at a supercharger with dual Superchargers. They would probably have buyers at 100 grand. Don’t know how much of a market there would be though.

[wilber1]

BenK wrote:
All electric still does NOT have the duty cycle for towing...hybrid yes, but not all electric

Battery size and cooling of both electric motor/batteries are the current issues

True, that's why trucks are different, but privately owned trucks used as tow vehicles represent a tiny portion of world wide diesel sales.

[FishOnOne]

IdaD wrote:

Bobbo wrote:
It produces 470 lb-ft of torque at 2250 to 3500 RPM..

That's cute. Plus it only comes in a half ton (even cuter).

Compare the EcoBoost emission equipment to your cummins under the hood (cute) and then compare the EcoBoost exhaust to your cummins exhaust (even cuter).

[FishOnOne]

Bedlam wrote:

Bobbo wrote:
I want to preface this by saying I have never owned a diesel. However, from the reading I have done, it seems to me that one of the major draws of a diesel over a gasser is the high torque at lower RPM's. My Ford 3.5l EcoBoost engine produces 375 hp at 5,000 RPM, but it has its maximum torque much lower. It produces 470 lb-ft of torque at 2250 to 3500 RPM. I can get the diesel-like low range torque without the front end expense of a diesel, the higher maintenance costs, the astronomical repair costs, and the higher fuel costs. Sure, it gets lower mpg, but that is a trade off I am willing to accept. On top of that, it has 2 turbochargers that reduce the power loss at altitude for those times I am in the Rocky Mountains.

The advantage of diesel for me is the steady torque curve. Even when I had a little naturally aspirated model with less than 60 hp, it was capable of towing my fiberglass travel trailer through the Sierra Nevada's. I compare gas to diesel like a 2-stroke to 4-stroke: the two stroke has a lot of potential at higher revolutions in a narrow band, while the four stroke has less peak and spreads power over wider band. The 4-stroke attributes seem to follow this comparison against a diesel. Once forced induction is introduced, smaller displacement is required to make the same power and power can be generated at lower revolutions - This doesn't matter what type of engine is being boosted.

I believe the EcoBoost is a great alternative to diesel and the current 3.5 and 2.7 engines make great low rpm pulling power. I predict Fords new 3.0PSD will sell, but in much lower volume because the grocery getters will start screaming when forced drives down the road to regen the dpf starts getting old.

[BenK]

All electric still does NOT have the duty cycle for towing...hybrid yes, but not all electric

Battery size and cooling of both electric motor/batteries are the current issues

[wilber1]

Marchionne is looking at the way European cities are coming down on diesels and sees the writing on the wall. NA is a niche market for diesel when you look at the number sold and doesn't really factor into manufacturers diesel car plans. Trucks are different.

Electric is where its at these days.

Jaguar I Pace is now coming out. 394 HP, 512Lb Ft, all wheel drive, 0-60 in 4 seconds and over 200 mile range. Audi Etron next year. Look out Tesla Model X.

[IdaD]

Bobbo wrote:
It produces 470 lb-ft of torque at 2250 to 3500 RPM..

That's cute. Plus it only comes in a half ton (even cuter).