Fifthwheel ordered - now I need new truck - advice please

[Hedgehog]

We sold our diesel pusher and just ordered a 2016 Montana 3160RL. The fifthwheel has a dry weight of 11,700 and a pin weight of 2570. I know I need a 1 ton and prefer to stay with single rear wheel because this will be my every day driver. What I am torn between is the gas vs. diesel debate. I know that all of the big 3 can tow the weight I need with the proper axle ratio but in the case of ford, I would have to order because I can't find a truck on the lot with 4.30 gears. in the past, I owned a fifthwheel and towed it with a 6.0 power stroke so I know that diesel tows better. What is making me nervous about buying another diesel is the reliability. I see issues all over forums about problems with def systems, injection pumps, injectors, etc. this will be my everyday driver to get me to work everyday along with towing the new fifthwheel under 2,000 miles a year. Another thing that is important to me is resale value. I put approx. 15,000 per year and usually trade them at under 80,000 miles. I know most of the time I will be under warranty but breakdowns are still a major aggregation, especially if it's your only vehicle.
Are the newer diesels that problematic?
Do the newer diesels have better resale or do they loose that advantage due to the cost factors of repairs once out of warranty?
Is the diesel worth the investment when 90% of its life will be just driving it for transportation and doing Home Depot runs, etc.
I'm not trying to start a gas vs. diesel war because I like them both and if the epa wasn't involved in these vehicles, I already know what I would buy. Even a friend of mine that works as the service manager at a local ford dealership told me that a lot of there fleet customers are switching to gas. Why?

[ramgunner]

Don't let using it as a daily driver scare you off of a DRW by itself. I drive mine every day (including through a narrow security gate with overhead height-restriction marker 2x/day) and it's not a big issue. The benefits outweigh the few disadvantages to me.

[ib516]

BurbMan wrote:

Me Again wrote:

BurbMan wrote:
The 3500 SRW Ram 6.4L Hemi with 4.10 axle is rated to tow 16k+ lbs., see Ram Towing Specs for 2015 3500 trucks. Obviously tow capabilities go way up when you add the Cummins, DRW, and Aisin tranny, but no reason the Hemi won't do the job, especially since the OP lives in the northeast and only travels a few weeks per year.

And the torque management imposed on that engine, makes it a bit of a dog according to the test that have been posted. Chris

A few guys here on the forum (ib516 is one) are towing pretty heavy with the 6.4 and have posted good reports. Not suggesting that the 6.4 is a better choice for the OP, only that the 6.4 should get the job done if the OP wants to go with a gasser.

Mine does just fine with 12,000#. It runs in 5th at 2100 RPM at hwy speed when on flat terrain in TH mode.

I haven't experienced any type of "torque management" during my use. The only time I've even seen that mentioned was in the one test up to the Eisenhower Tunnel towing heavy with the truck to the floor. I also wouldn't call it tq management, but RPM limiting.

I will post a few more videos of my experience towing up mountain grades this summer. It'll hold ~70 mph in 2nd gear at about 5300 RPM.

I've been very satisfied with the performance, even having towed with Cummins diesels previously.

[ACZL]

As you can see, the replies are all over. I agree that a gasser w/ either 4,10-4.50 gears would work, but you will be doing some serious twisting of the motor and lug on hills. MPG's would be less w/ the gas both in towing and everyday driving. Germany has figured out the DEF system as we have a '13 Passat TDI diesel w/ 60K and no problems (knock on wood). At work, I have a '12 Detroit Diesel DDT13 and has had a few DEF issues. Freightliner dealer said about 70% of truck to be fixed have some sort of DEF issue w/ them hence at shop to be fixed. When the DEF works right, they are all great. When not, they all stink.

As for truck itself, we had a '03 F250 SD w/ the 6.0 and 3.73 gears and towed rig in sig w/o a prob. Fully loaded, pin was 2,000 and 5er was 12,800 and still had a 1,000 pounds to go before being maxed out on 5er. Yes I was over on truck, but as for pulling, she did a very good job. Newer trucks have higher tow ratings than early 2000's did. I think you'll be fine w/ a 350/3500 SRW. In the case of Ford's 6.7, 3.55 gears is pretty much the norm in SRW. 3.73-4.10 is offered in dually only, BUT I want to say someone said in TX you could get a SRW w/ 3.73 gears (can someone confirm this). Is the OP looking at what kind of cab and 4x4 or no? Friend of ours has a '05 GM Dmax CC,4x4,3.73 gears and tows a 5er in neighborhood of 15k w/ no probs. I wouldn't on a 3/4 ton, but many have.

As for keeping it till 80,000 miles, IMO that's a crapshoot. Yes your still within warranty, but like AP said, it's just starting to get broke in. Seems like your going to take a good hit when it comes to up front cost of diesel engine and never see the full life of it in order to recoup your initial investment. I was asked by my F-I-L when I had my '03 if I'd get another diesel again and I replied w/ a yes (despite some issues I had w/ the '03). Gas does has it's advantages along w/ diesel. I just want to be on safe side and be sure I have enough motor to do what I want now and down the road if need be. Had my '03 for 11 years and 160k. God willing, current ruck will do the same or more.

[kzspree320]

If your actual weight will be 13,000 to 13,500 lbs, which seems reasonable given what you have said, then either the Ford 350 SRW with 6.2 and 4.30 or the Ram 3500 SRW with 6.4 and 4.10 gassers will work fine.

Will either of these gassers tow like a diesel? NO, but you are only towing 2,000 miles per year and commuting 13,000 miles per year. You live in MA (I lived there many years ago) which is cold. The gasser warms much faster and would be better on cold winter mornings when you can actually have the heater working even on the pretty short commutes.

The majority of diesels are fairly problem free. It is a gamble that if something major happens out of warranty on a diesel it can cost much more to fix than gas. If most of your commuting is 10 mile plus trips, then the diesel sounds good. If most of your commuting is 1 to 2 mile trips and it never goes more than 20 miles except for a few times a year, then I personally would not buy a diesel. I love my Cummins when pulling, but some applications are just more suited to gas.

Hope this helps some. Keith

[BurbMan]

Me Again wrote:

BurbMan wrote:
The 3500 SRW Ram 6.4L Hemi with 4.10 axle is rated to tow 16k+ lbs., see Ram Towing Specs for 2015 3500 trucks. Obviously tow capabilities go way up when you add the Cummins, DRW, and Aisin tranny, but no reason the Hemi won't do the job, especially since the OP lives in the northeast and only travels a few weeks per year.

And the torque management imposed on that engine, makes it a bit of a dog according to the test that have been posted. Chris

A few guys here on the forum (ib516 is one) are towing pretty heavy with the 6.4 and have posted good reports. Not suggesting that the 6.4 is a better choice for the OP, only that the 6.4 should get the job done if the OP wants to go with a gasser.

[jmtandem]

I put approx. 15,000 per year and usually trade them at under 80,000 miles. I know most of the time I will be under warranty but breakdowns are still a major aggregation, especially if it's your only vehicle.

It is doubtful you will have any negative issues with any of the big three diesels in 80,000 miles. As an aside I have owned three Rams with the Cummins and the engine breaks in nicely around 80-85,000 miles and picks up an extra mile or two per gallon. Nationwide, a few Cummins/Rams have made two million miles without the engine being taken apart and others have exceeded one million. 80,000 miles is nothing on any of the big three diesels. But what you get in towing abillity with a diesel is almost everything. I would not be afraid of any DEF engine as ammonia (cow pee) is introduced downstream from the engine into the exhaust. It probably adds a tenth of a cent per operating mile and some of that is recouped in slightly better fuel economy.

[C-Bears]

IMHO you would be in diesel SRW territory. If you are 90% sure you would never be moving up into a slightly heavier Montana, or adding more weight for extended camping, then you could probably stay away from DRW.

I was making the exact same decisions as you in 2012. Went with F350 SRW. Didn't think I would ever need anything bigger. I am currently right at my max weight limit and had to recently put my Montana on a diet because she went over.

Love the 6.7 diesel though.

[Me_Again]

BurbMan wrote:
The 3500 SRW Ram 6.4L Hemi with 4.10 axle is rated to tow 16k+ lbs., see Ram Towing Specs for 2015 3500 trucks. Obviously tow capabilities go way up when you add the Cummins, DRW, and Aisin tranny, but no reason the Hemi won't do the job, especially since the OP lives in the northeast and only travels a few weeks per year.

And the torque management imposed on that engine, makes it a bit of a dog according to the test that have been posted. Chris

[fla-gypsy]

Based on the limited towing you will do the gas engine would be an option IMO. The Ford 6.2L and the Ram 6.4L would be able to handle that weight with the proper rear gear in a 3500/350 series truck.

[BurbMan]

The 3500 SRW Ram 6.4L Hemi with 4.10 axle is rated to tow 16k+ lbs., see Ram Towing Specs for 2015 3500 trucks. Obviously tow capabilities go way up when you add the Cummins, DRW, and Aisin tranny, but no reason the Hemi won't do the job, especially since the OP lives in the northeast and only travels a few weeks per year.

[Me_Again]

rhagfo wrote:
With the optional tires that were part of the factory Camper Package the axle rating could be 6,430#.

3415 x 2 = 6830

[Me_Again]

Hedgehog wrote:
At first I was dead set against a diesel but I'm not sure now. Why is that the manufacturers de tune there gas engines in trucks over 10,000 GVWR? Will that be a issue if I purchased a gas truck?

You will be hard pressed to find a gasser that is rated to tow that trailer. The Ford 6.2 appears to get the best reviews for towing, however you want one rated to tow close to the GVWR (16K) of the trailer or say at least 15K, and I am not sure that is available. At those weights a gasser is going to suck fuel like no tomorrow!

Being a Dodge Boy, my choice would be a RAM 3500 SRW Diesel with the Aisin tranny, factory 5th wheel prep, and B&W 5th wheel hitch rated to tow 17K+. They come with 3.42 gears and get very good mileage as DDers. The Aisin has a low first gear to account for the high rear end ratio to get things moving. And the RAM still uses the more reliable CP3 injection pump.

Chris

[rhagfo]

donn0128 wrote:
Dry weight really has little bearing here. How much do you think you will add to it? See, kind of hard to answer. So instead look at the trailers GVWR. You may not hit it, but better to err on the side of caution.
From its GVWR use 20% as its pin weight. My guess the fiver your looking at will have a 15-16000 GVWR and a pin weight around 3500 pounds. I doubt your going to find a SRW truck that will have 7000+RAWR, but your welcome to look. Also, I do not think you will find any gas truck today capable of towing 15K around.

I am a believer in that you need to look at ALL THE NUMBERS!!

In this case the 4,415# carrying capacity of the 5er comes into play.

Unless you are a real pack-rat tough to get there. Likely to add 2,000# maybe 2,500# so total weight of 5er should be around 13,500# to 14,000#. Well within the capacity of newer 3500/350 SRW carrying capacity. Dry pin is 2,535#, not likely you are gong to 1,000# to that adding 2,500# to the 5er.

I tow a 11,000# GVW, on a 12,360# GVWR 5er with an 2001 Ram 2500, 2,200 pin still have about 500# left on the tire controlled 6,084# rear axle rating. With the optional tires that were part of the factory Camper Package the axle rating could be 6,430#.

[DutchmenSport]

After towing with a gas 3500 and then 2 different diesel 3500's, I'll never go back to gas. And by the way, the dully will give you more stability. Yes, you do have to be a little more "thoughtful" when parking, but other than that, I use mine as a daily driver and rather than fretting over the truck size, the fact it's a diesel, or any things else, I SIMPLY just enjoy driving my truck! Really, after a while owning it, you won't even think about size or it being a dully or a diesel any more. You'll never look at a 4 wheeled truck the same again! Get the truck that will tow the trailer and tow it comfortably. That should be the most important factor in your decision. Everything else ... daily driver, etc, is secondary!

[the_bear_II]

After towing a 15000lb 5th wheel for over 20 years with gas and diesel 2500s, 3500s and 4500- SRW and DRW there are a couple of never do again that I have come up with:

Only diesel no gas... the exhaust brake alone is the tipping point along with the torque for mountain grades.

DRW only no SRW- I live in Los Angeles and would commute 24 miles each way into downtown LA daily in my crewcab dually longbed. Never an issue. In fact I felt very safe in the big truck. The DRW provides a very stable tow platform.

Keep in mind on forums you will read posts mostly from folks who have a problem and are looking for an answer, are new and need info, or like me like to read through the posts and provide answers when possible. The majority of truck owners and RV'ers never post on forums...you are seeing just a small sample of the total population.

In 2008 I moved up to a C4500 Chevy with the duramax and allison. It is the best truck I have ever had. Towing is a dream with it.