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Fuel additive recommendation by Cummins

smokeylew
Explorer
Explorer
A recent post on The Turbo Diesel Register mentioned that Cummins officially endorses Power Service Diesel Kleen and Diesel Fuel Supplement. I own a 2016 Ram 3500 Cummins Diesel with less than 20k on it. Never considered adding fuel supplements.

The post didn't make a case for using or not using fuel additives one way or the other. Although, there were some good points brought up about low sulfur content of diesel fuel and the added benefit of increased turbo lubricity when using the additive.

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this subject and if you diesel guys recommend using a fuel additive like PS Diesel Kleen + Cetane Boost as endorsed by Cummins?

Thanking you in advance for you posts, Smokeylew
36 REPLIES 36

memtb
Explorer
Explorer
SidecarFlip wrote:
Reminds me of 'Fake News'. If it's on the net, has to be true.. People are sure gullible today.

Anyone want to but the Brooklyn Bridge...

I'll sell it to you....



Check’s in the mail! :B
Todd & Marianne
Miniature Schnauzer's - Sundai, Nellie & Maggie Mae
2007 Dodge Ram 3500, 6.7 Cummins, 6 speed manual, 3.73 ratio, 4x4
2004 Teton Grand Freedom, 39'
2007 Bigfoot 30MH26Sl

memtb
Explorer
Explorer
I don’t know about “Turbo Lubricity”, seems like someone with a vivid imagination. But, there has been much research done on the “loss” of lubrication in the new low sulfur fuels. It has shown to cause excessive wear in the fuel pump and injectors, at least in the older model engines.

Several years ago ( soon after the introduction of the ULS Diesel) there was a test run on diesel fuel additives to help restore/improve the lubricating qualities of diesel. Many name brand additives and some different oils were tested. To summarize: in their testing, plain old 2 cycle engine oil came out in second place. Cheaper and generally more available than some of the specialized additives.

I’m not suggesting than anyone/everyone consider their use.... some folks are concerned about the effects on the government mandated emissions systems. But, I have been and will continue to use in all of my diesels (my emissions “stuff” fell off several years ago)....as I figure it cannot harm....only help!

I have a bunch of 1 pint plastic ( previously purchased 2 cycle oil) containers, that I fill from a gallon (cheaper/ounce than buying pints) bottle from Wal-Mart. I just add a pint on every fill...it gives me a little comfort....needed or not!
Todd & Marianne
Miniature Schnauzer's - Sundai, Nellie & Maggie Mae
2007 Dodge Ram 3500, 6.7 Cummins, 6 speed manual, 3.73 ratio, 4x4
2004 Teton Grand Freedom, 39'
2007 Bigfoot 30MH26Sl

mowermech
Explorer
Explorer
For those who wish to use additives, do a google search for "home-brew diesel fuel additive". Since there are only three components in the most pop0ular additive (according to the MSDS), it is quite easy to mix your own for less than $10 per gallon!
Look up the MSDS for your favorite additive. Find out exactly what is in the stuff. I looked up a highly recommended biocide recently. I won't have a bottle of that stuff on the property! It is worse than Roundup weed killer!
CM1, USN (RET)
2017 Jayco TT
Daily Driver: '14 Subaru Outback
1998 Dodge QC LWB, Cummins, 5 speed, 4X2
2 Kawasaki Brute Force 750 ATVs.
Pride Raptor 3 wheeled off-road capable mobility scooter
"When seconds count, help is only minutes away!"

JIMNLIN
Explorer
Explorer
wanderingbob wrote:
The article sez ," if" you have fuel problems , then it is the recommended product .

Cummins has recommended their own diesel fuel additives for years so nothing new about the subject other than maybe adding a different brand.
If I was using a single source for my fuel supply such as a above ground fuel tank out by the tractor shed I would use diesel a recommended fuel supplement for sure.

My blue tractor dealer was using fuel from his dealerships fuel tanks for his brand new '08 F350 DRW 6.4 engine. At around 3.8k-4k the 6.4 started running rough and smoking more than normal. Ford dealer found lack of lubricity was the culprit. Ford was nice and fixed all the fuel systems problems for him with no cost.
Seems as his diesel fuel for his blue tractor dealership was missing the additIve package usually added before delivery.
He now has a new fuel supplier and he also adds a lube package to his dealership tanks.

JMO but most of us buy fuel from several truck stops so if the fuel additive packet wasn't added to one truckers 6500 gal tank won't be a issue as its diluted with treated fuel.

I use Power Service or Howes or from my Cummins dealer every so often in my old '03 Cummins HPCR engine. I like the way the 5.9 idles smoother/quieter/better seat of the pants performance.
"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers

'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides

path1
Explorer
Explorer
ShinerBock wrote:
path1 wrote:

WOW... Please share why it is bad to change any fluid little bit early, like 10 percent?


Since you asked my opinion m....... It is a waste of money. I get an oil analysis done every oil change since I can have them done for free. We provide UOA's for our medium and heavy duty fleet customers. I have done a 10k oil change and a 15k oil change and the UOA showed no significant difference between the wear metals, mineral additives, or fuel dilution.

So my conclusion based on actual testing(instead of he said she said) is that it is a waste of money to change your oil too soon. Everyone should get a few UOA's done so they can know exactly how long they can go between oil changes. The more oil wasted multiplied by everyone in the world means that more oil is used for their "cheap insurance" which means my fuel and oil cost more.

So what is your experience besides this "Cummins engineer"?


You did notice... I'm using the word percentage and not miles, right?

I'll stick with doing all my maintenance 10 percent early. Oil sent in to be checked about once a year for me.

My experience with Cummins? By the way I'm speaking about the whole vehicle just not the power plant when I'm talking about backing up maintenance 10 percent. Used to watch 53 blocks work even with cracks in them. Notice how Fleet guard oil filters now have plastic wrapping on them for about the last 5 years. Gee wonder why...(and leap forward by the way). Stored in warehouses and dealers not storing right, etc

I can tell you with my 2001 5.9 the maintenance schedule doesn't even mention power steering fluid. Well put some spinner oil seperators on those class 8's, as they have enough oil pressure to spin out the soot. And lots of fleets are getting lots of miles between changes.
For me changing fluids 10 percent early works about the same anyway. I joined my dealers "presidents club" (I think its called) many years ago that gets 10 percent off. I don't think they offer it any more, and I have remember to ask or I don't get it.

(side note) being you see oil testing results...seeing any results in the new oil spec yet? Spec "K" or whatever they are naming it.
2003 Majestic 23P... Northwest travel machine
2013 Arctic Fox 25W... Wife "doll house" for longer snowbird trips
2001 "The Mighty Dodge"... tow vehicle for "doll house"

ShinerBock
Explorer
Explorer
path1 wrote:

WOW... Please share why it is bad to change any fluid little bit early, like 10 percent?


Since you asked my opinion m....... It is a waste of money. I get an oil analysis done every oil change since I can have them done for free. We provide UOA's for our medium and heavy duty fleet customers. I have done a 10k oil change and a 15k oil change and the UOA showed no significant difference between the wear metals, mineral additives, or fuel dilution.

So my conclusion based on actual testing(instead of he said she said) is that it is a waste of money to change your oil too soon. Everyone should get a few UOA's done so they can know exactly how long they can go between oil changes. The more oil wasted multiplied by everyone in the world means that more oil is used for their "cheap insurance" which means my fuel and oil cost more.

So what is your experience besides this "Cummins engineer"?
2014 Ram 2500 6.7L CTD
2016 BMW 2.0L diesel (work and back car)
2023 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 3.0L Ecodiesel

Highland Ridge Silverstar 378RBS

path1
Explorer
Explorer
ShinerBock wrote:
path1 wrote:
We spent time with a retired Cummins engineer. Good guy with tons of good stories. His theory ..... OEMS's stretch maintenance schedules for as long as they can for sales reasons. (And bean counters always win, but really have no idea about the mechanics of a product and only think about cost of ownership compared to other OEM's) And consumers have no idea how long something has sat around or what conditions fluids or filters were stored in.

His advice...follow maintenance schedule but back up 10 percent. Example...if something is due at 10,000 miles to it at 9,000 (10,000 minus 10 percent)


As one who has also worked for Cummins and other vehicle manufacturers, I can honestly say that I disagree with this 110%.

There are many variables that go into when you should change your oil including, but not limited to fuel consumption, contamination holding capacity of the oil pan, the contamination holing capacity of the filter, contamination holding ability of the oil, and the load/duty cycle of the engine. A quick oil analysis will tell you that a Cummins 6.7L with and SCR will easily go up to 15k intervals which is what is recommended.

In fact, this is what Cummins has to say about oil change intervals on the 6.7L per my Cummins Quickserve.


WOW... Please share why it is bad to change any fluid little bit early, like 10 percent?
2003 Majestic 23P... Northwest travel machine
2013 Arctic Fox 25W... Wife "doll house" for longer snowbird trips
2001 "The Mighty Dodge"... tow vehicle for "doll house"

ShinerBock
Explorer
Explorer
path1 wrote:
We spent time with a retired Cummins engineer. Good guy with tons of good stories. His theory ..... OEMS's stretch maintenance schedules for as long as they can for sales reasons. (And bean counters always win, but really have no idea about the mechanics of a product and only think about cost of ownership compared to other OEM's) And consumers have no idea how long something has sat around or what conditions fluids or filters were stored in.

His advice...follow maintenance schedule but back up 10 percent. Example...if something is due at 10,000 miles to it at 9,000 (10,000 minus 10 percent)


As one who has also worked for Cummins and other vehicle manufacturers, I can honestly say that I disagree with this 110%.

There are many variables that go into when you should change your oil including, but not limited to fuel consumption, contamination holding capacity of the oil pan, the contamination holing capacity of the filter, contamination holding ability of the oil, and the load/duty cycle of the engine. A quick oil analysis will tell you that a Cummins 6.7L with and SCR will easily go up to 15k intervals which is what is recommended.

In fact, this is what Cummins has to say about oil change intervals on the 6.7L per my Cummins Quickserve.




As far as Cummins endorsing Power Service. Generally when a manufacturer endorses a specific product it is because they have some sort of monetary agreement with the manufactures of that product.

Take the case of Cummins endorsing and recommending Valvoline. Cummins gets a better deal on the factory fill oil and other lubricants used in the engine building process that they purchase from Valvoline by publicly recommending and endorsing them. However, if you go to Cummins Quickserve, then you will see that every other oil that meet Cummins standards can be used as alternatives.



This is only a screen print of a few of the alternative oils. Trust me, the list is long and just about every major oil brand is on there.
2014 Ram 2500 6.7L CTD
2016 BMW 2.0L diesel (work and back car)
2023 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 3.0L Ecodiesel

Highland Ridge Silverstar 378RBS

FishOnOne
Nomad
Nomad
wanderingbob wrote:
The article sez ," if" you have fuel problems , then it is the recommended product .


Well said... And here's one example!

Link
'12 Ford Super Duty FX4 ELD CC 6.7 PSD 400HP 800ft/lbs "270k Miles"
'16 Sprinter 319MKS "Wide Body"

wanderingbob
Explorer II
Explorer II
The article sez ," if" you have fuel problems , then it is the recommended product .

Flan
Explorer
Explorer
Most likely a typo, They probably meant injector lubricity instead of turbo lubricity.
Heartland Prowler 27LX
19 Ram CTD 2500

SidecarFlip
Explorer III
Explorer III
Reminds me of 'Fake News'. If it's on the net, has to be true.. People are sure gullible today.

Anyone want to but the Brooklyn Bridge...

I'll sell it to you....
2015 Backpack SS1500
1997 Ford 7.3 OBS 4x4 CC LB

WILDEBILL308
Explorer II
Explorer II
smokeylew wrote:
A recent post on The Turbo Diesel Register mentioned that Cummins officially endorses Power Service Diesel Kleen and Diesel Fuel Supplement. I own a 2016 Ram 3500 Cummins Diesel with less than 20k on it. Never considered adding fuel supplements.

The post didn't make a case for using or not using fuel additives one way or the other. Although, there were some good points brought up about low sulfur content of diesel fuel and the added benefit of increased turbo lubricity when using the additive.

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this subject and if you diesel guys recommend using a fuel additive like PS Diesel Kleen + Cetane Boost as endorsed by Cummins?

Thanking you in advance for you posts, Smokeylew


You have gotten many replies some know what they are talking about but many are going on outdated information.
Yes Cummins does recommend Power Service Diesel Kleen products. If you do some research you will find that keeping the injectors clean is just one of the benefits it also improves Cetane ratings. The majority of diesel fuel tends to be lower than the recommended Cetane levels. You can also find that Mercedes is no longer going to sell diesel cars in the US for this reason.
"the added benefit of increased turbo lubricity when using the additive."
I don't know where some one came up with this but the only thing that will protect your turbo is using a full synthetic oil like Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck or Shell Rotella T-6 5-40.That will improve the protection of your Turbo. The only other up grade is a good EGT gage pre turbo to tell you the temperature is in your turbo.
Bill
2008 Newmar Mountain Aire
450 HP CUMMINS ISM
ALLISON 4000 MH TRANSMISSION
TOWING 2014 HONDA CRV With Blue Ox tow bar
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain

spoon059
Explorer II
Explorer II
Absolutely no additives are necessary, however some people feel the need to do *something*. Just like rubber roof membranes never used to recommend anything, but now there are a whole bunch of *approved* treatments, the same thing now applies to diesels.

Cummins realized that there are some owners that just have to spend additional money every fill up to add *something* to their fuel. I'm sure more than one company approached Cummins and tried to get Cummins to bless their product. I'm sure that Cummins gets some sort of financial kickback from Powerkleen to name drop their specific product.

The 6.7 Cummins was designed to run on ULSD, readily available in the US. As long as that ULSD meets minimum criteria, it is perfectly fine and nothing additional is needed.

All Cummins did was say that the Powerkleen products won't *hurt* anything... I have yet to see much data that shows any of those products actually *help* anything.
2015 Ram CTD
2015 Jayco 29QBS

path1
Explorer
Explorer
We spent time with a retired Cummins engineer. Good guy with tons of good stories. His theory ..... OEMS's stretch maintenance schedules for as long as they can for sales reasons. (And bean counters always win, but really have no idea about the mechanics of a product and only think about cost of ownership compared to other OEM's) And consumers have no idea how long something has sat around or what conditions fluids or filters were stored in.

His advice...follow maintenance schedule but back up 10 percent. Example...if something is due at 10,000 miles to it at 9,000 (10,000 minus 10 percent) He loved fleetguard filters and Cummins anti-freeze but other fluids he said Ford fluids were as good as Cummins and more available on the road. The extras he did was...oil analysis (I forget how often) and he did an alternator "ripple" test every oil change. He packed elec connections with die-elec grease every couple years. He had a binder set up by component with the standard requirement and in front of binder he had a chart of when everything was due to his minus 10 percent method.

He showed me how to do the alt "ripple" test with volt meter. Which I now do. I really don't know if newer stuff needs it or not but my old one does. Pretty interesting these electronic machines on wheels:)
2003 Majestic 23P... Northwest travel machine
2013 Arctic Fox 25W... Wife "doll house" for longer snowbird trips
2001 "The Mighty Dodge"... tow vehicle for "doll house"