GVWR

[bristles]

I'm looking at a 1 ton drw. What is the gross weight on the door sticker ? The new chevy's are at 13025lbs. Because I don't know the weight of the empty truck yet, can anyone tell me if an Arctic fox 990 will stay under the limit

[jimh406]

I'm in the strong tire police. I'm a believer in 19.5s and F, G, H for extra strength.

But, I don't have any enforcement powers. 🙂

[Reddog1]

I appreciate the various posts, and hope people will consider the door decals and manuals are great for basic information, but also realize there is more to the data than what is on the decal. If you do not have the time or interest to do the research, I really do not think you can go wrong using the decal/manual information. If you find your rig is over the decal/manual, a little research might relieve you of your concerns, or provide methods to upgrade your rig.

I am a member of the Tire load Police, which I guess could be called an division of the Weight Police. Why tire load, if one fails, it can literally put your vehicle on the ground with possible serious consequences. To my knowledge, all vehicle decals have the weight issues with the tire size and PSI as equipped from the manufacture. If you do not upgrade your tires, I strongly suggest you stay with the decal/manual.

Wayne

[RoyJ]

ticki2 wrote:
Ask yourself , when using a chain for pulling or lifting , do you go by the working load limit or the breaking load limit ? ( One of the few items that actually gives you that information . )

Let me put a slight twist in it:

A chain has a marketing, or "recommended" load of 500 lbs. But wait, call now and we'll sell you a Super-Chain with a recommended load of 750 lbs.

You dig deeper, and find the real OEM steel supplier of the chain links specified a working load of 1000 lbs, with a breaking load of 8,000 lbs.

Which number to you follow? The "weight police" would say 500 lbs, because that's in the "owner's manual". Some of us would like to push 1000 lbs, because that's the hidden engineering spec that the re-brander does NOT want you to see. No one is pushing for 8,000 lbs, in fact, axle and tire manufactures do not even list breaking limits.


With chains it's simple, but vehicles a lot more difficult. All we have to do is look at instances where the OEMs themselves magically raise "tow rating", with ZERO mechanical changes, in the midst of a marketing war (F150 vs Titan early 2000's, Ram vs GM vs F150 early 2010's). Then there are vehicles that are magically rated lower in North America than Europe or Australia (mostly SUVs), knowing we're a sue-happy society...

[deltabravo]

jimh425 wrote:
You'll be safe with a 990 with room to spare on a newer drw truck.

Ditto. Buy 'em both and go have fun!

[JIMNLIN]

I wonder why proponents of ignoring GVWR ratings are usually adamant about not exceeding axle or tire limits . Wouldn't these have the same safety factor built in ?

Proponents ??
Your talking about the entire trucking industry as the truck makers GVWR isn't used to determine if a truck is overweight.

As Wayne pointed out there are mechanical spec sheets available from the truck makers for anyone to see and read. Fleet Ford is one of the easier websites for pros and newbys to gleen mechanical specs on LDT size trucks. https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/topics/2016/specs.html.

Things we know are the truck makers may choose any GVWR they want and may be up to the sum of the GAWRs per FMVSS.
A mfg Example;.... Ford spec sheets tells us (quote) "4) Gross Axle Weight Rating is determined by the rated capacity of the minimum component of the axle system (axle, computer-selected springs, wheels, tires) of a specific vehicle. Front and rear GAWRs will, in all cases, sum to a number equal to or greater than the GVWR for the particular vehicle." (snip).

Ford also gives us a F350 SRW with a 11200 or 10000 GVWR in the exact same truck. Its all in the clicky.

I'm using Ford as a example simply because their website makes it so simple.....compared to a wad of websites/PDF files required for GM and Dodge/Ram.

[RoyJ]

mkirsch wrote:
The owner's manual for your truck says "do not exceed ANY rating," period. It does not say "GVWR is just for taxation and licensing, so you can safely ignore it," anywhere.

Nor does it say "the limits are strictly safety and engineering oriented, specified solely by the engineering team with zero input from the lawyers and marketing"

Ever tried to find the equivalent "tow rating" on a Class 8 tractor? (Volvo, Peterbilt, Kenworth, etc). Why do you think that is? Because Kenworth forgot to put in a tow rating?

No, because in the commercial hauling world, the only safety engineering spec that DOT cares about are tire and axle ratings. Don't exceed those, you can haul any weight so long as you pay your taxes and licensing.

Also, Kenworth knows a CDL driver will not, and cannot sue them because he's driving like an idiot and blows a tire while towing a trailer. Whereas Joe consumer will likely sue GM when he drives 80 mph with a 25k lbs 5th wheel, loses control and crashes. If GM didn't put in a "tow rating"...

[ticki2]

Reddog1 wrote:

ticki2 wrote:
... It is unfortunate that the label "weight police" is used so often as a way of shutting down the other half of the discussion .

I disagree with your comment. It is my belief too many people preach about a subject they have never researched. To just read the decal or manual does qualify as research in my opinion. To really understand requires asking how the information was arrived at. The decals and manuals have lots of good information, but I think it is worthwhile to investigate further if you really want to understand.

I agree completely . I would never advise following any information blindly , whether written or verbal .However , your comments do not address the sentence that you quoted .

PS I believe you meant to write "does NOT qualify" in the 3rd sentence .

[Reddog1]

ticki2 wrote:
... It is unfortunate that the label "weight police" is used so often as a way of shutting down the other half of the discussion .

I disagree with your comment. It is my belief too many people preach about a subject they have never researched. To just read the decal or manual does qualify as research in my opinion. To really understand requires asking how the information was arrived at. The decals and manuals have lots of good information, but I think it is worthwhile to investigate further if you really want to understand.

[HMS_Beagle]

The best way is to load it up until something breaks, then take about 100 lbs off and you are good to go. 🙂

[ticki2]

Reddog1 wrote:

Kayteg1 wrote:
GVWR is administrative number and depends at what bracket the state taxes go up.
You see it jumping from 11,400 to 14,000 to 15,000 lb.
That is where most states change taxes and/or licensing requirements.
For years I drove F450 with 15k rating and had it at or above 20k more than once. Tires were good for 22k.
Don't plan your set base on taxing clerks charts, but get real axle ratings and go from there.

I find this to be a very informative post. It would be great if it were accepted by the weight Police. Unfortunately, many people are obsessed with the door sticker without really understanding it.

Wayne

On the surface this seems very reassuring . It's OK to go 25 per cent over the manufacturers posted limit . Someone did it and it didn't break . I have yet to read how exactly the manufacturers establish the GVWR or GCWR , I suspect the government is also involved and not just the industry .

Just about everything made has a safety factor built in , the trouble is that rarely if every is that information available to the public .
I wonder why proponents of ignoring GVWR ratings are usually adamant about not exceeding axle or tire limits . Wouldn't these have the same safety factor built in ?

Ask yourself , when using a chain for pulling or lifting , do you go by the working load limit or the breaking load limit ? ( One of the few items that actually gives you that information . )

I think that the discussion of weights and their effects is a good one ,even though there have been many , each time I learn a little more . I have knowingly exceeded the limits on tools and machines on occasion , sometimes I have gotten away with it and sometimes not .

It is unfortunate that the label "weight police" is used so often as a way of shutting down the other half of the discussion .

[HMS_Beagle]

My '15 F350 diesel DRW weighs just 20# shy of 8000 empty, GVWR is 14,000. With the Bigfoot 10.4 on, fuel and water full and gear aboard, 12,400 lbs. So plenty of headroom. Still, the suspension sags significantly in the back, no where near the bump stops but it needs help to keep the headlights on the road. These new 1T trucks carry a lot, but compromises to ride quality seem to be made (compromises which fail, IMO). There is no doubt at all that it carries the weight better than the '99 that I replaced.

[mkirsch]

Reddog1 wrote:

Kayteg1 wrote:
GVWR is administrative number and depends at what bracket the state taxes go up.
You see it jumping from 11,400 to 14,000 to 15,000 lb.
That is where most states change taxes and/or licensing requirements.
For years I drove F450 with 15k rating and had it at or above 20k more than once. Tires were good for 22k.
Don't plan your set base on taxing clerks charts, but get real axle ratings and go from there.

I find this to be a very informative post. It would be great if it were accepted by the weight Police. Unfortunately, many people are obsessed with the door sticker without really understanding it.

Playing devil's advocate here, they also say that GCVWR is a performance number and can safely be ignored too, but NOWHERE is it documented in any official manner by either the vehicle manufacturer or the government.

The owner's manual for your truck says "do not exceed ANY rating," period. It does not say "GVWR is just for taxation and licensing, so you can safely ignore it," anywhere.

To prove it to weight police you need it in an OFFICIAL capacity. A post from an anonymous person called "Kayteg1" is not going to convince someone who is staring at the page of their official manufacturer-published manual that says, "Do not exceed ANY rating, period."

[Reddog1]

Kayteg1 wrote:
GVWR is administrative number and depends at what bracket the state taxes go up.
You see it jumping from 11,400 to 14,000 to 15,000 lb.
That is where most states change taxes and/or licensing requirements.
For years I drove F450 with 15k rating and had it at or above 20k more than once. Tires were good for 22k.
Don't plan your set base on taxing clerks charts, but get real axle ratings and go from there.

I find this to be a very informative post. It would be great if it were accepted by the weight Police. Unfortunately, many people are obsessed with the door sticker without really understanding it.

Wayne

[kohldad]

Not sure about the Chevy, but the new Rams have a payload number on the door sticker which is pretty accurate. When I weighed mine brand new off the lot, the GVWR - payload was off by 140 pounds which is within 14 pounds of my 154 weight.

A modern day dual wheel pickup will be a great match for an Artic Fox 990.

[JIMNLIN]

bristles wrote:
I'm looking at a 1 ton drw. What is the gross weight on the door sticker ? The new chevy's are at 13025lbs. Because I don't know the weight of the empty truck yet, can anyone tell me if an Arctic fox 990 will stay under the limit

Actually the door sticker has the GVWR and not its gross weight. Use this handy weights calculator from GM. gm online ordering guide.

Just follow the year model to the weights calculator....it tells you what the payload is for each axle and a gvwr payload with the different packages and options.
It will get you close..

For a pickup carrying weight pay attention to the RAWR/tire load ratings as its going to carry most if not all of weight in the bed.