GVWR

[bristles]

I'm looking at a 1 ton drw. What is the gross weight on the door sticker ? The new chevy's are at 13025lbs. Because I don't know the weight of the empty truck yet, can anyone tell me if an Arctic fox 990 will stay under the limit

[jmckelvy]

Here are some actual round numbers with the truck and camper in my sig. Weight from Pilot scales.

Truck: Full fuel, me, DW, 8100 lbs

Truck, full fuel, me, DW, camper fully loaded for extended camping, 1/2 tank fresh water, holding tanks empty, (990 has big tanks!), 13160 lbs. Its over GVWR but handles the camper just fine (over 120,000 miles with camper on).

My AF990 does have the generator.

[RobertRyan]

RoyJ wrote:

RobertRyan wrote:

RoyJ wrote:
With chains it's simple, but vehicles a lot more difficult. All we have to do is look at instances where the OEMs themselves magically raise "tow rating", with ZERO mechanical changes, in the midst of a marketing war (F150 vs Titan early 2000's, Ram vs GM vs F150 early 2010's). Then there are vehicles that are magically rated lower in North America than Europe or Australia (mostly SUVs), knowing we're a sue-happy society...

On the other hand US Pickups are rated a lot lower in Australia. Several factors but payload and type of hitch are some main ones.

Interesting! Are they tongue weight limited? They sure aren't power limited compared to most Aussie powertrains...

Goes to show just how arbitrary "tow ratings" are. Laws of physics are constant on earth, yet ratings are all over the place for a given vehicle.

They take in other factors,that are not included in the SAE ratings. Drops are dramatic, a Sierra 2500 with Diesel is rated at 9,900lbs. Yes the 5th wheel rating is much greater

Our test vehicle was powered by a 6.6-litre turbocharged V8 diesel that had the impressive outputs of 296kW at 3000rpm and 1037Nm of torque at 1600rpm. A heavy-duty tow hitch comes standard as does an electric brake controller on the dash with digital readout on the info screen in front of the driver.

If that’s not enough, you also get an exhaust brake that you can switch on and off via a toggle switch on the centre console. Then there’s the Stabilitrak electronic stability control system as standard, plus the trailer sway control. Maximum towing weight is quoted at 4500kg on a standard hitch.
So you can see that right out of the factory, these rigs are purpose-built to tow.

From GMC website, it is a substantial drop

Maximum conventional trailering capacity of 14,500 lbs2
Maximum fifth-wheel trailering capacity of 18,000 lbs2
Maximum payload of 3,534 lbs3

[twodownzero]

mkirsch wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, they also say that GCVWR is a performance number and can safely be ignored too, but NOWHERE is it documented in any official manner by either the vehicle manufacturer or the government.

There is no such thing as "GCVWR." The rating to which you refer is "GCWR," which is not a vehicle rating but a "combination" rating that refers to the truck and any trailer that is attached.

There are no ratings that are as critical as GVWR and GCWR on a 1 ton truck, because together those two numbers will probably determine your capacity. While in theory I could probably pull a huge fifth wheel according to my truck's GCWR, the reality is that huge trailer would bust the GVWR first.

[RoyJ]

RobertRyan wrote:

RoyJ wrote:
With chains it's simple, but vehicles a lot more difficult. All we have to do is look at instances where the OEMs themselves magically raise "tow rating", with ZERO mechanical changes, in the midst of a marketing war (F150 vs Titan early 2000's, Ram vs GM vs F150 early 2010's). Then there are vehicles that are magically rated lower in North America than Europe or Australia (mostly SUVs), knowing we're a sue-happy society...

On the other hand US Pickups are rated a lot lower in Australia. Several factors but payload and type of hitch are some main ones.

Interesting! Are they tongue weight limited? They sure aren't power limited compared to most Aussie powertrains...

Goes to show just how arbitrary "tow ratings" are. Laws of physics are constant on earth, yet ratings are all over the place for a given vehicle.

[RobertRyan]

RoyJ wrote:
With chains it's simple, but vehicles a lot more difficult. All we have to do is look at instances where the OEMs themselves magically raise "tow rating", with ZERO mechanical changes, in the midst of a marketing war (F150 vs Titan early 2000's, Ram vs GM vs F150 early 2010's). Then there are vehicles that are magically rated lower in North America than Europe or Australia (mostly SUVs), knowing we're a sue-happy society...

On the other hand US Pickups are rated a lot lower in Australia. Several factors but payload and type of hitch are some main ones.

[getpower1]

woodhog wrote:
On real trucks the GVWR is the GAWR, 12,000 lb front, two 20's and the tag(Certification Label) will read 52,000 pounds GVWR.

I like this. I believe it true, but will double check on this at work Monday.

The only problem with this is the lack of training and knowledge to deal with situations that could arise. Those who drive these trucks have a license that makes it possible to drive a lot more than what most do. Not all, and certainly not anyone on this site, drive more than a Honda Civic on a daily basis. Not saying that class c drivers should be limited to cars and that another license should be had to drive a pickup with a camper, but a little extra training for everyone couldn't hurt. I remember how hard I thought it was going to be to get my license at 16. Now that I drive for a living, I realize that if you couldn't pass that test you really shouldn't have been driving. Seems like they'll give anyone a license, and from what I see all day, I wish it was harder.

I can't tell you the amount of times I was cut off just on Friday by people in little cars, not more than a car length in front of me, only to hit the brakes right in front of me. Most have no idea what these trucks weigh.

Back on topic though, I believe you can get away with anything that "looks" safe. As long as the tires and brakes can handle it. My rig probably weighs in at more than my gvwr, which is 10,000. But it looks safe, stops well, handles just fine, and I know I've got 17,000 lbs available for my tires. This makes me feel safe.

[Reddog1]

bristles, working in the trucking industry I am sure you realize you can be safe and exceed the door decal or Manual. It has been my objective to inform people that you can exceed the door decal or Manual weights in a safe manor. But, you must do the research to identify the weak link.

Wayne

[bristles]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I never thought it would be such a hot topic. Working in the trucking industry for to many years I do understand the differences in gross and axle weights, and tire specs. Being a little older and somewhat wiser safety is more of a concern to me.

[woodhog]

On real trucks the GVWR is the GAWR, 12,000 lb front, two 20's and the tag(Certification Label) will read 52,000 pounds GVWR.

[djg]

So what is the bottom line then, My truck has axle weights that total 13,000 lbs, gvwr is 10,000 lbs I'm loaded with camper at 10,700 lbs, tires are total 14,500lbs total weight so are you good hauling the 10,700 lbs, the truck handles great with it no squat at rears been on several trips with these numbers, brakes well from 55mph because thats my cruising speed, planing a 7000 mile trip leaving at the end of the week won't even think about it. As one poster said concerning tractor trailers the mfg's don't say what you can haul but the dot goes by axle and tire ratings which make me laugh, in the USA you cannot exceed 80,000 gross, in Canada mind you with a 5 axle trailer 140,000 gross but you can get permits from dot and city where you to put 155,000 on, humm sounds fishy to me its all about money the permits are expensive but they are out there!!!

Dave

[GeoBoy]

Here is the accurate info for a 2015 GM 3500 HD gas dually, truck with tailgate, full fuel tank, 2 average size adults, 7580 lbs., truck with AF 990 camper, full propane, 3/4 tank of fresh water, 2 Lifeline batteries, full of clothes, food and supplies for 2 weeks travel, 12,460 lbs., per CAT scales at Pilot. My truck has 8K lbs. Timbrens, Torklift frame mounts, Super Hitch and FastGuns. Sticker in glove box says to limit slide-in weight to 4913 lbs.. My fuel mileage in the Smoky Mtn. NP has been 9.5 to 10 mpg hand calculated.

[RoyJ]

ticki2 wrote:

RoyJ wrote:

ticki2 wrote:
Ask yourself , when using a chain for pulling or lifting , do you go by the working load limit or the breaking load limit ? ( One of the few items that actually gives you that information . )

Let me put a slight twist in it:

A chain has a marketing, or "recommended" load of 500 lbs. But wait, call now and we'll sell you a Super-Chain with a recommended load of 750 lbs.

You dig deeper, and find the real OEM steel supplier of the chain links specified a working load of 1000 lbs, with a breaking load of 8,000 lbs.

Which number to you follow? The "weight police" would say 500 lbs, because that's in the "owner's manual". Some of us would like to push 1000 lbs, because that's the hidden engineering spec that the re-brander does NOT want you to see. No one is pushing for 8,000 lbs, in fact, axle and tire manufactures do not even list breaking limits.

Are you making this up or do you actually know a place that altered a chain manufactures certified WLL numbers ?

I'm making an analogy to OEM tow ratings. Of course I made up the chain numbers.

As an ME I can tell you there's absolutely nothing restricting me from down-rating WLL numbers. This goes for all structural members, pressure vessels, etc. If I take 36ksi steel and market it as 20ksi, and sell the rest as "premium 36 ksi", that's fully within my rights.

Think of the 20ksi as my "tow rating" to avoid getting sued, and 36ksi as the hidden axle rating that DOT looks at.

[ticki2]

RoyJ wrote:

ticki2 wrote:
Ask yourself , when using a chain for pulling or lifting , do you go by the working load limit or the breaking load limit ? ( One of the few items that actually gives you that information . )

Let me put a slight twist in it:

A chain has a marketing, or "recommended" load of 500 lbs. But wait, call now and we'll sell you a Super-Chain with a recommended load of 750 lbs.

You dig deeper, and find the real OEM steel supplier of the chain links specified a working load of 1000 lbs, with a breaking load of 8,000 lbs.

Which number to you follow? The "weight police" would say 500 lbs, because that's in the "owner's manual". Some of us would like to push 1000 lbs, because that's the hidden engineering spec that the re-brander does NOT want you to see. No one is pushing for 8,000 lbs, in fact, axle and tire manufactures do not even list breaking limits.

Are you making this up or do you actually know a place that altered a chain manufactures certified WLL numbers ?

[RoyJ]

jimh425 wrote:
I'm in the strong tire police. I'm a believer in 19.5s and F, G, H for extra strength.

But, I don't have any enforcement powers. 🙂

But we can pass on something far more powerful than enforcement - knowledge!

History has shown while enforcement works to a degree under totalitarianism, it often ends in failure. When you enrich people with knowledge, so they can make wiser decisions themselves, success sustains.

After all, that's why we're all here, a place where freedom of knowledge and opinions help people make better decisions 🙂