Is J2807 worthless?

[Huntindog]

A recent thread was locked due to brand bickering. Before I got a chance to respond to the latest turn of the conversation.

It was stated that J2807 a worthless standard by a few people... Primarily because it did not address a specific need that the poster felt was important,,,or did not have a high enough standard in a specific area...

This is nit picking. A standard is just that... A standard. If all meet the same standard in determining ratings, then the playing field is level.
The alternative is leaving it up to the smoke and mirrors of the marketing gurus, to come up with a number (and assorted fine print) that will sell to the public.

There will never be any standard that will totally satisfy everyone.

So it is better to have a minimum standard than not.
Those that for whatever reason think that the standard is not good enough for them... Are free to do their individual analyisis of the vehicles using the standard as a baseline to decide what TV meets their specicfic needs... They have been doing this now without any standard at all for years... So this standard would even help them.

[spud1957]

Where are the other manufacture's J2807 complaint charts?

Not sure what this has to do with the topic but Ford's "complaint" chart is in the back of the user's manual under Customer Assistance.

[Flashman]

wilber1 wrote:
To me, that chart says the truck will meet J2807 performance criteria towing those weights. Of course you will have to weigh your particular truck and adjust them for your actual base weight but how is that not useful?

Sure its useful.

Where are the other manufacture's J2807 complaint charts?

[wilber1]

To me, that chart says the truck will meet J2807 performance criteria towing those weights. Of course you will have to weigh your particular truck and adjust them for your actual base weight but how is that not useful?

[ShinerBock]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:
test.

Okay, this is odd. I can post this , but when I want to post what I had typed up to say it keeps giving me a "web page not available" error.

You have been tagged. 😉

What does that mean?

[Cummins12V98]

ShinerBock wrote:
test.

Okay, this is odd. I can post this , but when I want to post what I had typed up to say it keeps giving me a "web page not available" error.

You have been tagged. 😉

[Cummins12V98]

Chart for RAM 3500 SRW and DRW CrewCab 4x4 trucks.

[ShinerBock]

test.

Okay, this is odd. I can post this , but when I want to post what I had typed up to say it keeps giving me a "web page not available" error.

[FishOnOne]

rhagfo wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

rhagfo wrote:


Shiner, are you saying Ford didn't make any changes during that time?? :h

People are always looking for improvements, model year to model year.

Besides some cosmetic changes, Ford did not make any changes to the to the trucks that would affect towing between 2011 and 2014 like Ram did in my post earlier. The 2011-2014 F150/250/350 had the same frames, axles, transmissions, brakes, suspensions, engines, power ratings, and so on.

It wasn't until 2015, when Ram made enough changes to implement J2807, that Ford redesigned the F150 implementing J2807 like they said they would do with all of their new designs and the only upgrade they made to the F250/350 was a new turbo and power numbers for the Power Stroke.

Actually the DRW F350 had a brake upgrade in '13.

Was it J2807 or the reception of the concept truck "Long Hauler", that spurred Ram to make improvements.

Link

I think it was competition that motivated making the improvements. The long hauler was to test the water to see if there was a viable market for such a heavy duty truck. I also think it served as a concept that drove the improvements to the latest ram trucks.

[rhagfo]

Me Again wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

brulaz wrote:
Like ShinerB, I would like to see more testing of the rigs ability to safely go DOWN a long steep grade.

IOW how much un-braked towed weight can the truck safely handle going down a standard grade? And while you're at it, make it a twisty one with 20mph hairpin turns separated by 35-45mph straights, not just an Interstate.

But I imagine there are many issues in designing such a standardized test.

Very good point!! How many post have we seen on the forum of a strong puller up hill, ending in a white knuckle ride down the other side!!!

My 2001.5 OEM just free wheeled down hills with the torque converter not locked up. Even after installing a smart controller and exhaust brake, the truck with the torque converter lock without the exhaust brake on, the Cummins held back very little on hills by it's self!. The V8 Fords and GM's seemed to do better with grade braking as it was called then.

Long live Exhaust Brakes!!!!

I wonder about newer direct injection gas engines without throttle plates?

Chris

X2!!
My PacBrake is worth every dollar I spent on it, nothing like rolling down a long grade watching all the brake lights ahead of you and just listening the sweet rumble of you EB holding your speed or slowing you.

[Me_Again]

rhagfo wrote:

brulaz wrote:
Like ShinerB, I would like to see more testing of the rigs ability to safely go DOWN a long steep grade.

IOW how much un-braked towed weight can the truck safely handle going down a standard grade? And while you're at it, make it a twisty one with 20mph hairpin turns separated by 35-45mph straights, not just an Interstate.

But I imagine there are many issues in designing such a standardized test.

Very good point!! How many post have we seen on the forum of a strong puller up hill, ending in a white knuckle ride down the other side!!!

My 2001.5 OEM just free wheeled down hills with the torque converter not locked up. Even after installing a smart controller and exhaust brake, the truck with the torque converter lock without the exhaust brake on, the Cummins held back very little on hills by it's self!. The V8 Fords and GM's seemed to do better with grade braking as it was called then.

Long live Exhaust Brakes!!!!

I wonder about newer direct injection gas engines without throttle plates?

Chris

[Me_Again]

So I have been up and down Davis Dam a few times both directions, Wolf Creek South bound, Cabbage Patch both directions, North Cascades Pass, Stevens Pass, Outlook, Siskiyous and many other West Coast hills and mountains with my old 2001.5 towing at 20,500 combined. RAM/Dodge did not build this old truck to be real safe doing these mountains at these weights, so I had to do it myself with custom tranny, smart controller, and exhaust brake. Along the way I upped it to 325/650-700 at the rear wheels. So it ran up this hills, mountains, and passes just fine.

Fast forward to this fall and we bought a new 2015 3500 4x4 CC SB with Aisin optional tranny. This new truck does it all, quietly and smoothly without any mods. The 5th wheel hitch locks into OEM frame mounted pucks, the brake controller is built in, and the exhaust brake works seamlessly with the tranny/engine with two modes available.

Did J2807 standards have anything to do with this? Who cares, they RAM and the others most likely got it right in recent years.

We all win!

Chris

[slickrock_steve]

This thread is great!!!!!!

I just went to the earlier thread that had been locked, and WOW!
It sure showed the bias of some folks!!

All I can contribute is; I LOVE my Cummins Diesel, and the DODGE that surrounds it!
It has served me very well for the 200,000 miles I have hauled a 4000 lb slide in camper, and frequently towed my 7000 lb horse trailer with my LIVE load of horses.
Is it the fastest, and biggest baddest???
NO! But, all this Wrangling and b**tching about whose truck is best, well it is all the same as who can pee the farthest!!!!

[rhagfo]

brulaz wrote:
Like ShinerB, I would like to see more testing of the rigs ability to safely go DOWN a long steep grade.

IOW how much un-braked towed weight can the truck safely handle going down a standard grade? And while you're at it, make it a twisty one with 20mph hairpin turns separated by 35-45mph straights, not just an Interstate.

But I imagine there are many issues in designing such a standardized test.

Very good point!! How many post have we seen on the forum of a strong puller up hill, ending in a white knuckle ride down the other side!!!

[JIMNLIN]

Is J2807 worthless?

Out here in the real world of hard working LDT size trucks .... the 2807 specs does nothing.

On paper...... the 2807 specs shine. JMO

[brulaz]

Like ShinerB, I would like to see more testing of the rigs ability to safely go DOWN a long steep grade.

IOW how much un-braked towed weight can the truck safely handle going down a standard grade? And while you're at it, make it a twisty one with 20mph hairpin turns separated by 35-45mph straights, not just an Interstate.

But I imagine there are many issues in designing such a standardized test.