Is the EV transformation of the market over hyped ?

[Lessmore]

Interesting article about IC gas and Diesel and Electrical Vehicles. This would also include tow vehicles.


EV vehicles market domination over hyped ?

In some ways I think the manufacturers are giving us mixed messages. GM says that they will introduce about 20 new EV vehicles by 2023, yet on the other hand have just introduced a new 3 liter , 6 cylinder diesel for their 1500 truck series and new..or at least revamped 6.6 liter IC gas engine and 6.6 liter IC Diesel engine for their 2020 HD pickup truck line.

So what gives, as we used to say in high school ?

[otrfun]

IMO there's a real possibility government regulation (in response to greenhouse emissions) may force EV's on us---warts and all---significantly before the free market system has a say in the matter. A number of countries (i.e., China, Germany, Japan, etc.) are already implementing some form of regulation forcing the hand of car manufacturers in terms of ICE vs. EV production.

[Terryallan]

pianotuna wrote:
Terryallen,

Read the thread. It lists the EV going 2,781km (1,728mi) in 24 hours in a Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD, which included charging time.

Just not practical for the vast majority of us. When it is. we will see.

Just like my weed eater. It is now battery. Does what I want. But will not run as long as the gas one I had. Takes 2 batteries to do the same job.

And like the FI EV racing series. Takes 2 cars to do the same thing ONE ICE car does.

[mich800]

time2roll wrote:

mich800 wrote:

Reisender wrote:


I guess. But then again. EV’s rarely need a charge station that isn’t at home. We use a commercial charge station maybe half a dozen times per year. Many EV owners have never used a commercial charger even after years of ownership. Can’t really compare the two. Gas or diesel vehicles have to fill up at gas stations. It’s their only choice.

And until they can they will remain a secondary vehicle for the financially well off or commuter vehicles for people that think they can make up the $10-20 thousand premium over an efficient gas/diesel vehicle. And there is nothing wrong with that. But they are a long way off from replacing the ICE vehicle.

Since 2011 I have only really needed public charging about five times. The same public infrastructure is just not needed as compared to gasoline. Why is this difficult to understand?

Did you even read what I said. It may help you understand. I am not against ev’s. Are you are being over sensitive because it wasn’t 100% pro ev?

[Grit_dog]

Classic case of both sides cherry picking advantages or shortcomings to support their argument!
EV fans convienently forget to achnowledge that one can't drive from Helena to Miles City empty or pulling a trailer without some serious searching or waiting, or packing a generator to recharge the car somewhere in BFE Montana. (Or pick 1000s of other locations that would pose a similar challenge)
ICE fans not giving credit to the utter convienence and simplicity (albeit an expensive convienence) of an EV for moderate trips or even long trips as long as those trips are planned around urban areas and range is calculated.

I'm still firmly on the ICE side, becasue A, I like the smell of race gas! And B, because it doesn't fit my uses....yet.
Now it would be almost perfect for my wife. Stay at home mom. 80% or more miles are within 50 miles of the house and back home. But then her car wouldn't be suited for a road trip to the Midwest from Seattle....
I've thought about an EV as a commuter car for her, but the $$$$$$ to get a SUV that hauls a few kids, maybe a few hockey bags at the same time = not practical....yet.

Anyone who is absolutely c rapping on EV advancement should take a hard look at themselves. Would you say the same thing about ICE advancement that now gives you your 400hp car that gets over 20mpg or your house pulling 1000ft lb diesel that we all so dearly love??

[wilber1]

JRscooby wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Terryallen,

Read the thread. It lists the EV going 2,781km (1,728mi) in 24 hours in a Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD, which included charging time.

Impressive but cruising at 105 MPH is not realistic anywhere but on an autobahn.

But lower speeds is more fuel efficient with ICE. Bet it would also be true with Ecar.

Sure, drag doesn't care what is powering the car.

[time2roll]

mich800 wrote:

Reisender wrote:


I guess. But then again. EV’s rarely need a charge station that isn’t at home. We use a commercial charge station maybe half a dozen times per year. Many EV owners have never used a commercial charger even after years of ownership. Can’t really compare the two. Gas or diesel vehicles have to fill up at gas stations. It’s their only choice.

And until they can they will remain a secondary vehicle for the financially well off or commuter vehicles for people that think they can make up the $10-20 thousand premium over an efficient gas/diesel vehicle. And there is nothing wrong with that. But they are a long way off from replacing the ICE vehicle.

Since 2011 I have only really needed public charging about five times. The same public infrastructure is just not needed as compared to gasoline. Why is this difficult to understand?

[Reisender]

JRscooby wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Terryallen,

Read the thread. It lists the EV going 2,781km (1,728mi) in 24 hours in a Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD, which included charging time.

Impressive but cruising at 105 MPH is not realistic anywhere but on an autobahn.

But lower speeds is more fuel efficient with ICE. Bet it would also be true with Ecar.

That is a fact. Speed limits in this province are seldom above 100 km and as s result our range is higher than EPA range.

[JRscooby]

wilber1 wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Terryallen,

Read the thread. It lists the EV going 2,781km (1,728mi) in 24 hours in a Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD, which included charging time.

Impressive but cruising at 105 MPH is not realistic anywhere but on an autobahn.

But lower speeds is more fuel efficient with ICE. Bet it would also be true with Ecar.

[wilber1]

pianotuna wrote:
Terryallen,

Read the thread. It lists the EV going 2,781km (1,728mi) in 24 hours in a Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD, which included charging time.

Impressive but cruising at 105 MPH is not realistic anywhere but on an autobahn.

[pianotuna]

Hi all,

Here is a video about an all electric trip--it was done in 2016 when charging locations were many fewer than today:

https://youtu.be/0cYfQP-ljww

"The crazy couple (and sane dog) that started on a cross Canada trip in June 2016 with a Tesla Model X pulling a Safari Condo Camping Trailer?! And after having arrived in St. John’s NL continued on to Florida and California before returning to Victoria BC for a total of 33,000 fully electric kilometres? (21,000 miles)! Yep, that’s us!"

[pianotuna]

Terryallen,

Read the thread. It lists the EV going 2,781km (1,728mi) in 24 hours in a Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD, which included charging time.

[Reisender]

Terryallan wrote:

Reisender wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

Reisender wrote:

danrclem wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:

Reisender wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
So what happens when there are more than a couple people charging their EV's? No one seems to think that will ever happen, and they'll be able to just drive right up and plug in. When was the last time you had to wait at a gas station to fill up, and that only takes a couple minutes to do. What happens when the average "fill up" takes 30 minutes?

Oh yeah, I forgot: "They'll be lots more charging stations". Riiiiiight.

I’m probably not understanding what you are getting at. So yes. There will be more charging stations. A new DCFC location opens up about every week or two in our area. Usually BC hydro puts them on the app as “coming soon” and they appear as a wrench. About 6 months later they broadcast a message on the App that they are live. Three years ago there were like 20 DCFC’s in the province. Now there are over 120 with lots more coming. It will be an ongoing thing. Most people charge at home or work but DCFC’s are needed for road trips.

My point is that every one says "Just stop and get a bite to eat or shop a bit until the car is charged up". What if there's 2 people ahead of you, each takes 20-30 minutes, so that's an hour before it's your turn, and now you've spent 1 1/2 hours getting "refueled". What do you do for that amount of time.

I'm sure there are more charging stations, but there are tons more gas stations, and people still wait inline, but the wait time is measured in minutes, not hours. And since this is an RV forum, we are talking about traveling where you may not be able to charge up at home, and the campground may not be set up to do that either. So you "fuel up" on the road. Hence my question about what you do when you can't immediately pull up to the charger.

Exactly. How many vehicles can fill up with fuel at a station that has 12 pumps in one hour. How many vehicles can be charged at a station that has 12 chargers in one hour. I don't know the answer but I bet there's a big difference in numbers.

I guess. But then again. EV’s rarely need a charge station that isn’t at home. We use a commercial charge station maybe half a dozen times per year. Many EV owners have never used a commercial charger even after years of ownership. Can’t really compare the two. Gas or diesel vehicles have to fill up at gas stations. It’s their only choice.

Proving that you can't take the EV out of town, and so, it is useless to the vast majority.

Again. You seem very misinformed. Why would any of the above “prove that you can’t take an ev out of town”. People take EV’s on road trips routinely. It’s just many people don’t do road trips with their cars. For those people they get very little use out of DCFC stations. Probably the best way to get informed is to go for a test drive in something like a model 3 AWD.

Actually it is you that is misinformed. In the South. We travel in motorized vehicles. We take our everyday drivers on our vacations, We on the spur of the moment jump in to our car and drive for hours to the mountains, or to the beach. We rarely fly on vacation. There is simply no need. NC especially has so much to offer. I can be on the OBX in less than the time it takes to go thru the airport check points, and do realize. The nearest commercial airport is over an hour away. Why waste my time flying when driving is so much easier, and so much cheaper, and I have my vehicle to drive while there.

Even when we go on ocean cruises, we drive to the port, and when we do. We need a vehicle that is not only ready to go, but one that will keep going. and be ready to go when we return.

Just this morning. I had breakfast on the NC Outer Banks, and Lunch in the NC foothills. Had I wanted to. I could have had supper in Boone, or Cherokee. Can I do that with a EV? Nope. But I did it with my truck, and I didn't have to stop and get gas, and I didn't have to let it charge overnight, and it still has 200 miles to go before it needs fuel. Also remember. We have few large cities. It is generally anywhere from 15 to 50 miles between towns.

If I took a test trip in a EV. They would have to come and get it when the battery died.

Thing is. I can't have my life LIMITED by a short range vehicle. I will not have my lifestyle dictated by the short comings of a vehicle. EVs plug in. that is their only choice. And really long drop cords are expensive.

Now don't get me wrong. When, and IF they ever improve a EV to the point it will do what a ICE will do. Then I'll take a look at it. But that is a long way off. And unless a person wants to stay home. The current crop. Just don't cut it. Still an intown car.

Heh heh. Your last sentence said it all. Misinformed.

But, drive whatever works for you. :). Cheers.

[Terryallan]

pianotuna wrote:
Terryallen,

Are you suggesting that folks who can afford an RV are poor? I believe the opposite may be true.

Any campground equipped with 50 amp pedestals can do level 2 charging. I'm never in a "mad dash" to get south, though I do admit to driving longer than usual to get below the snow line.

How often have you driven your RV (or car) 1600 miles in one day? My personal best is a little less than 900 miles--and that was driving at 50 mph. I did stop for a nice nap about 1/2 way, which would have been an opportunity to rapid charge an EV. I did stop to make meals as well. That's three more charging opportunities without "extra" waiting.

My first class C was a diesel and the hose to the fuel tanks foamed like crazy. If I really wanted to "fill to the gills" it took about 30 minutes. I'd fill until the pump clicked off, and then go wash the headlights, continue to fill and then wash the passenger's side window, and etc.

My "normal" driving is about 3 to 5 hours per day.

Don't know where you got the idea I thought RVers were poor. Poor has nothing to do with wanting, and needing a vehicle that is ALWAYS ready to roll.
As for 1600 mile. None of the EV will do that. All the ones listed had less than 400 mile range, AND THAT DON'T CUT IT. I came close to that today. We did stop for about 1o minutes 3 times. but there was no where to plug in. See, it is all about convenience. Current ICE vehicles are, EV aren't, for people like us.

[Terryallan]

Reisender wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

Reisender wrote:

danrclem wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:

Reisender wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
So what happens when there are more than a couple people charging their EV's? No one seems to think that will ever happen, and they'll be able to just drive right up and plug in. When was the last time you had to wait at a gas station to fill up, and that only takes a couple minutes to do. What happens when the average "fill up" takes 30 minutes?

Oh yeah, I forgot: "They'll be lots more charging stations". Riiiiiight.

I’m probably not understanding what you are getting at. So yes. There will be more charging stations. A new DCFC location opens up about every week or two in our area. Usually BC hydro puts them on the app as “coming soon” and they appear as a wrench. About 6 months later they broadcast a message on the App that they are live. Three years ago there were like 20 DCFC’s in the province. Now there are over 120 with lots more coming. It will be an ongoing thing. Most people charge at home or work but DCFC’s are needed for road trips.

My point is that every one says "Just stop and get a bite to eat or shop a bit until the car is charged up". What if there's 2 people ahead of you, each takes 20-30 minutes, so that's an hour before it's your turn, and now you've spent 1 1/2 hours getting "refueled". What do you do for that amount of time.

I'm sure there are more charging stations, but there are tons more gas stations, and people still wait inline, but the wait time is measured in minutes, not hours. And since this is an RV forum, we are talking about traveling where you may not be able to charge up at home, and the campground may not be set up to do that either. So you "fuel up" on the road. Hence my question about what you do when you can't immediately pull up to the charger.

Exactly. How many vehicles can fill up with fuel at a station that has 12 pumps in one hour. How many vehicles can be charged at a station that has 12 chargers in one hour. I don't know the answer but I bet there's a big difference in numbers.

I guess. But then again. EV’s rarely need a charge station that isn’t at home. We use a commercial charge station maybe half a dozen times per year. Many EV owners have never used a commercial charger even after years of ownership. Can’t really compare the two. Gas or diesel vehicles have to fill up at gas stations. It’s their only choice.

Proving that you can't take the EV out of town, and so, it is useless to the vast majority.

Again. You seem very misinformed. Why would any of the above “prove that you can’t take an ev out of town”. People take EV’s on road trips routinely. It’s just many people don’t do road trips with their cars. For those people they get very little use out of DCFC stations. Probably the best way to get informed is to go for a test drive in something like a model 3 AWD.

Actually it is you that is misinformed. In the South. We travel in motorized vehicles. We take our everyday drivers on our vacations, We on the spur of the moment jump in to our car and drive for hours to the mountains, or to the beach. We rarely fly on vacation. There is simply no need. NC especially has so much to offer. I can be on the OBX in less than the time it takes to go thru the airport check points, and do realize. The nearest commercial airport is over an hour away. Why waste my time flying when driving is so much easier, and so much cheaper, and I have my vehicle to drive while there.

Even when we go on ocean cruises, we drive to the port, and when we do. We need a vehicle that is not only ready to go, but one that will keep going. and be ready to go when we return.

Just this morning. I had breakfast on the NC Outer Banks, and Lunch in the NC foothills. Had I wanted to. I could have had supper in Boone, or Cherokee. Can I do that with a EV? Nope. But I did it with my truck, and I didn't have to stop and get gas, and I didn't have to let it charge overnight, and it still has 200 miles to go before it needs fuel. Also remember. We have few large cities. It is generally anywhere from 15 to 50 miles between towns.

If I took a test trip in a EV. They would have to come and get it when the battery died.

Thing is. I can't have my life LIMITED by a short range vehicle. I will not have my lifestyle dictated by the short comings of a vehicle. EVs plug in. that is their only choice. And really long drop cords are expensive.

Now don't get me wrong. When, and IF they ever improve a EV to the point it will do what a ICE will do. Then I'll take a look at it. But that is a long way off. And unless a person wants to stay home. The current crop. Just don't cut it. Still an intown car.

[pianotuna]

Terryallen,

Are you suggesting that folks who can afford an RV are poor? I believe the opposite may be true.

Any campground equipped with 50 amp pedestals can do level 2 charging. I'm never in a "mad dash" to get south, though I do admit to driving longer than usual to get below the snow line.

How often have you driven your RV (or car) 1600 miles in one day? My personal best is a little less than 900 miles--and that was driving at 50 mph. I did stop for a nice nap about 1/2 way, which would have been an opportunity to rapid charge an EV. I did stop to make meals as well. That's three more charging opportunities without "extra" waiting.

My first class C was a diesel and the hose to the fuel tanks foamed like crazy. If I really wanted to "fill to the gills" it took about 30 minutes. I'd fill until the pump clicked off, and then go wash the headlights, continue to fill and then wash the passenger's side window, and etc.

My "normal" driving is about 3 to 5 hours per day.