Jumping off the Diesel Bandwagon - UPDATED

[ib516]

Well, after two Cummins diesels that I thoroughly enjoyed, I am going to place a factory order for a RAM 2500 with the 6.4L Hemi, 4.10 gears, rear air suspension, Laramie and plenty of added options. I don't care for the looks of the "Limited" with all the badges gone, and I think the cowboy theme of the longhorn is tacky.

WHY THE SWITCH FROM DIESEL TO GAS?

1) Well, when I bought my first Cummins powered truck, diesel fuel was almost always 30% cheaper than regular unleaded where I live. In recent years, that scale has tipped the other way. It used to be occassionally, and now it seems that Canada is following the trends in the USA, and it is becoming the norm. Of course this is a regional thing, but it seems here to stay. Our last road trip with my current truck, I paid $93.00 for 68L of diesel. That's $93.00 for 18 US Gallons when I topped it up. :E Regular unleaded is running $1.20/L and diesel is $1.42/L right now. That has been the trend for the last 6 months or so - maybe the last year.

2) When I bought my last two diesels, the HD gas offerings by the big 3 were gas hogs compared to the diesels. That has all but evaporated with the hp/tq war going on in the diesels, and the addition of DPFs, DEF, etc. The gas engines haven't improved much, but the diesel mpg has come down some which has narrowed the gap.

3) The gas engines just weren't all that powerful either. The 5.7L Hemi was tops at 345hp back then, the GM 6.0L was a measly 300hp, and Ford's 5.4L was a bit of a dog as I drove one 12 hrs a day in an Expedition and it didn't impress me power wise in the lighter Expedition. While the diesels today offer huge power and will certainly outperform the 6.4L Hemi I am choosing, the 6.4L Hemi is actually rated to tow more than my 5.9L Cummins, by 2500#! I know it will be a "different" towing experience with much less tq than my pumped up 5.9L Cummins, but I will live with the higher RPMs.

4) The kids are growing and we will no longer need a huge bunk house RV to save us from going nuts on those rainy days when camping. We are going to downsize to a smaller RV next time round, which will be in the next year or two.

5) Driving my 2014 Jeep Cherokee with the heated seats, new tech features, etc has me wanting a newer truck with the new features and upgraded interior from the Tupperware/Rubbermaid one in my current truck.

6) A new, loaded 2500 RAM with the Cummins is about $8,000 - $9,000 more than the same truck with the 6.4L Hemi here in Canada.

7) Lastly, the big Cummins diesel sucks to drive at -30* and -40*. It just starts blowing heat when I ARRIVE at work. I have the grill completely blocked off with a winter front, and have done all I can, this just doesn't get better. Nature of the beast.

So there you have it. Me talking myself into a new truck. 🙂

[goducks10]

shelbyj wrote:
Money wise cars/trucks and RVs are typically not good "investments" IMO its not about if its a good investment or not, its about what makes you happy in your life. If owning an RV makes you happy and allows you to spend quality time with the family or friends then thats worth it. We can sit here and go back and forth about if its worth the extra money to get a diesel but as others have said its a personal choice. If you want a diesel to pull your pop up trailer, go for it, its your money.

Very well said. RVs/boats/ATVs, etc are the biggest money pits there are. Worrying about whether to get a diesel or gas truck almost seems ironic.

[shelbyj]

Money wise cars/trucks and RVs are typically not good "investments" IMO its not about if its a good investment or not, its about what makes you happy in your life. If owning an RV makes you happy and allows you to spend quality time with the family or friends then thats worth it. We can sit here and go back and forth about if its worth the extra money to get a diesel but as others have said its a personal choice. If you want a diesel to pull your pop up trailer, go for it, its your money.

[Ram4Sam]

ib516 wrote:
I will be the first to say that my new 6.4L Hemi is not going to tow "as well as" a modern Cummins diesel. It's just not possible. The Cummins has DOUBLE the torque of the gasser.

What I will say without hesitation is this:
The 6.4L Hemi will tow my trailer, is rated to do much more weight (15,500#) than I will be pulling (~11,500#). This is satisfactory for me, given that the RV will be hitched to the back of the truck for a total of 5 days this year. The other 360 days of 2014, the truck will be used as a family car/commuter, and sightseeing/day trip rig when we are RVing.

It works for me in my situation, and it makes financial sense for me in my situation. It might not make sense for you in your situation.

Best of luck with the new truck. The fit, finish, and ride quality is light years of what it was a few years ago. Just make sure you don't fill your new truck with ol' number 2 the first time you fill up. :W

Sam

[ib516]

I will be the first to say that my new 6.4L Hemi is not going to tow "as well as" a modern Cummins diesel. It's just not possible. The Cummins has DOUBLE the torque of the gasser.

What I will say without hesitation is this:
The 6.4L Hemi will tow my trailer, is rated to do much more weight (15,500#) than I will be pulling (~11,500#). This is satisfactory for me, given that the RV will be hitched to the back of the truck for a total of 5 days this year. The other 360 days of 2014, the truck will be used as a family car/commuter, and sightseeing/day trip rig when we are RVing.

It works for me in my situation, and it makes financial sense for me in my situation. It might not make sense for you in your situation.

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

I didn't buy it as an investment, I bought to tow my 9,850# travel trailer. Which it did far better then my 4.7 V-8 gas truck did towing 7,200#. Just so happens that I'll make money on the deal.

BTW for my injestment back about the time I bought my Ram/Cummins I also bought a S-house full of Ford stock for between $1.70-$1.22. Then unloaded them when it hit $13.00 dollars a share. Which BTW took a LLLOOONNNGGG time! But that little train that could, did make it.

Don

[jevanb]

I bought a diesel because I towed with a v10 and then a 6.0 and hated the experience, plus I can tow the 800hp p pumped twinned dodge to the track, run both trucks and tow back home, or pull any hill up to GCWR at the speed limit and still see 12.5 mpg. Did it cost me more? Yes but I just make more money and not worry about it,

[Me_Again]

I bought a SeaRay boat in 1990 that had a Bravo One outdrive and weighed 9K with a 350HP 454. Tried to get them to change it to a Bravo Two before delivery. B-One had a SS go fast type prop and B-Two had a giant aluminum wide blade prop. After a year they finally agree to swap it. Stallion or Quarter Horse. Boat went the same speed with both drives, but the Stallion drive had no mid range performance, while the Quarter Horse drive performed well across all speeds.

This is a bit like the new smaller displacement gasers vs the diesel in a tow vehicle. The gaser is a Stallion that needs to move it's legs fast to do it's thing, while the Diesel is a Quarter Horse and will get the work done without breaking a sweat or moving its legs at a high rate!

I will take the Quarter Horse!

Chris

[Bluhorn]

Spoon is right in what he is saying, the way he says it leaves something to be desired though:W. Vehicles are terrible investments. The best we can hope for is to not lose our shirts. To buy more than you need is a waste of money. Our needs change over time though. The new gas Hemi is a winner for those people that dont need or want a Diesel. But I am very happy in the way my Diesel has held its value. As it gets more mileage it retains way more of its value than a gasser. Thats good for me or any other owner of these trucks. There is a good market for these vehicles, even with higher mileage. Allows me to keep it way longer, using it for what I bought it for, and still coming out with more equity in the end.

[jalichty]

boone, where in the heck do you find 2.25% rate CDs? Just wondering because around here, with good quality CDs, the rates have been around 1-1/15% for over three years. I really would like to find some of the 2.25% money for an organization that I belong to.

[JIMNLIN]

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
My 2004 with a diesel is worth somewhere between $19,000 to $21,000 and gasser is maybe $10,000 tops. My diesel option was like $4,000 (will check later) so looks like I made a good investment.

Don

Very typical of the diesels of the late '90s and early '00s. My '03 Dodge/Cummins 305/555 HO option was 3450 bucks for the Cummins. My break even point for the Cummins option came at around 43k-45k miles. Many folks working theirs for a living report much faster return rate. With 238k miles on the truck its been one of the best dollars for a "truck" investment I've ever had which includes eight one ton DRW trucks/five 3/4 ton trucks and three 1/2 ton trucks which many I put in commercial service.

At one time gassers were the towing top dogs with LDTs. Diesels came along and slowly became top dog. Then our truck makers dropped the big block/big torque numbers gas engines and gave us the high hp small blocks with small torque numbers... 6.0 GM/5.4 Fords and the 5.7 Hemi. They weren't meant to compete with the diesel.

Now we have the 6.4 Hemi with those big block torque numbers ... finally.
IMO 350/3500 and 450/4500 fleet service trucks got a kick in the teeth when the 8.1 GM and Fords V10 were dropped. The 6.4 should be a winner for Ram trucks with the fleet service industry and especially the RV industry when a 800-850 ft lbs of torque isn't needed for the job.

[noteven]

Edited - did a search found info.

[spoon059]

45Ricochet wrote:
All that rambling with a him pulling a 1998 Nash 22' TT. Your right, you don't need a diesel. Some of us do. Just saying :W

Long paragraphs are hard to read. I'll condense it for you to make this easier to read...

spoon059 wrote:
If you NEED a diesel, then you need a diesel. If you WANT a diesel and can afford it, go for it.

You are 100% right, I don't need a diesel. It would be moronic of me to pay extra for a diesel engine, a depreciating asset, in the hopes I could get some return on the investment when I sell it.

You, on the other hand, NEED a diesel. It would be moronic of you to buy a gas engine that doesn't produce the power necessary to move your rig.

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
My 2004 with a diesel is worth somewhere between $19,000 to $21,000 and gasser is maybe $10,000 tops. My diesel option was like $4,000 (will check later) so looks like I made a good investment.

Don

Not really Don.
First of all, you are more likely the exception, not the rule.
Second, I was giving investment rates on CD's, which are a low rate of return right now. To provide an example, my retirement plan has averaged a 16.9% rate of return over the last 5 years (don't have my 10 year stats available right now).
If we projected that 16.9% rate of return from when you bought your truck in 2004, that $4000 could have been invested and turned into over $19,000.
That is a $15,000 return on investment, as opposed to $9000 to $11000 return on investment. Again, if you financed that $4000 option, you would get less than $9-11. If you ever had any maintenance costs above that of a gas engine, that eats into that $9-11 return. So, from a FINANCIAL INVESTMENT ONLY point of view, you made a poor investment decision.

HOWEVER... (pay attention here Ricochet), if you NEED a diesel engine to haul your rig down the road and a gas engine wouldn't suffice, then the diesel was the right choice for you.

My entire argument is NOT against diesel engines. In fact, I hope to retire in 13 years and buy a diesel truck and a nice size 5er. My argument is that people on here that try to justify the purchase of a diesel engine in their truck as an investment are misleading others. It is NOT a safe investment, it is NOT a high yield return.

One more time for emphasis...

spoon059 wrote:
If you NEED a diesel, then you need a diesel. If you WANT a diesel and can afford it, go for it.

Does that clear anything up...? Hope so, but doubt it. Off to work I go, Can't wait to see what little snippets of this you guys pull out and twist while I am gone. CHEERS =)!

[mtofell1]

I recently went from diesel to gas for a variety of reasons but honestly it's kind of a coin flip. For my use and my local fuel costs the closest I could come to a payback for buying new diesel vs. gas was around 5-6 years and/or 125K miles.

I mainly went gas because when I drove the two trucks back to back I just liked the way the gas truck drove better as a daily driver. If I only bought for towing of course I'd go diesel. Anyone trying to convince others that gas tows even close to as well as diesel is in an advanced state of denial (or can't hear an engine rev).

It just depends on how you use your truck. We're all different. This constant fuss to make others see the world through your eyes is an amusing study in human nature. Just buy the stupid truck that works for you and spend your energy hanging out with your family or doing something other than arguing about the color of the sky on an internet forum.

[blofgren]

45Ricochet wrote:
All that rambling with a him pulling a 1998 Nash 22' TT. Your right, you don't need a diesel. Some of us do. Just saying :W

X2. I have pulled with gas and the difference pulling the same trailer when I stepped up to a diesel was night and day not to mention getting much better mileage. I am really looking forward to towing with my new '13 CTD! :C

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

My 2004 with a diesel is worth somewhere between $19,000 to $21,000 and gasser is maybe $10,000 tops. My diesel option was like $4,000 (will check later) so looks like I made a good investment.

Looked at the window sticker and it shows the "5.9 Cummins HO Turbo Diesel Engine" option @ $5,225 less the EP pricing so some where close to $4,700.

Don