Looking for help on TT decision

[Rickincali]

Hello everyone.

I am in the market for a travel trailer and have found one I like and I think I can tow but I want to see if anyone can take a look at the numbers and double check to make sure I am not overlooking anything.

We currently have a 2013 Toyota Sequoia SR5 W/Tow Package. As is well known the limiting factor on the Sequoias is the cargo capacity.

We have been looking and have found a trailer we like, think we can safely tow and have got it down to what we think is a good price.

Here are the details I am working with.

GVWR of Truck - 7100
Tow Capacity - 7400
GCWR of Truck - 16000
RAWR of Truck - 4280
FAWR of Truck - 3900
Curb weight of Truck - 5730
Payload - 1350
Max tongue weight - 1000

I am going to a scale this week to get actual weights of the front/rear axle and current vehicle weight. We usually travel just my wife, 2 labs and myself.

I assume with the trailer we will keep most of the cargo in the trailer except some snacks so I am going to get it weighed with the 4 of us and a full tank of gas.


Here are the numbers I am working with.

Payload of 1350 - 500(Wife, dogs and myself)= 850

So as long as the tongue weight is under 850 I think we should be good?


Here are the trailer details.

Heartland Mallard M27

GVWR 6,900 lbs
Dry Weight 5,500 lbs
Hitch Weight 475 lbs
Width 8' 0"
Height 11' 2"
Length 30' 4"
Fresh Water 36 gal
Gray Water 37 gal
Black Water 35 gal
LP Capacity(2) 20 lbs

Since the cargo weight is my primary concern, the hitch weight is what I am focusing on here(Maybe I shouldn't be?)
The GVWR is 500 Lbs under my TVs towing limit and I am anticipating about 1000 Lbs cargo added to the trailer when we are out on trips which would leave us about 900 Lbs cushion.

Based on the trailer numbers the 475 hitch weight is about 9% of dry weight. Continuing with that 9%, even fully loaded the hitch weight would be roughly 621. I don't think we will ever get it that heavy but we never know until we start packing. Based on the 1000 Lbs of cargo I am looking at 6500 @ 9% = 585 hitch weight.

Even at 621 hitch weight it is still under 850 so I believe I should be good.

Here are my questions.

Should I be giving myself more cushion on the max trailer weight?

Is the trailer too long for the Sequoias 122 wheel base?

Once we start loading with full propane tanks and cargo would the hitch weight go up significantly?

Is 9% a number subject to change based on how we load the TT?

Am I missing anything here?

Thanks in advance for any assistance with this. I will update this post with actual weights once I get them.

-Rick

[Rickincali]

Thanks again for all of the replies. We have decided not to get this trailer. I just don't think it is worth the risk nor the hit to my mental health while towing.

We are starting to look for a used truck for a tow vehicle which would give us a lot more options then we have with the Sequoia. Time for another new learning experience.

[LarryJM]

APT wrote:

coolmom42 wrote:
Your WDH does not reduce the tongue weight. The total tongue weight is still ALL on the tow vehicle. So you have to take all of it into consideration in the cargo capacity of the tow vehicle.

What a WDH does is move part of the tongue weight to the front axle, vs having it all on the rear axle. So it may help reduce overloading the rear axle.

A slight clarification: a WDH can reduce TW carried by the TV axles, but it does not reduce the TW for the receiver. It is possible to put 20 percent of TW on the trailer axles for many vehicles when fully restoring front axle weight to unhitched amount.

Well said and 100% CORRECT:B

Larry

[Need-A-Vacation]

Forgot to mention, go for the E4 vs the E2. Even if it means you need to pay the difference.

And I would probably suggest the 1000lb bars for that trailer.

What model brake controller? If possible, get a inertia based unit like one of the Prodigy models. The time based will work, but the inertia based are smoother operating.

Good luck!!!

[Need-A-Vacation]

Rick,

Here is a set of weight slips that may help you understand what happens when using a wdh. At the time, we had a 1400lb tw and you can seen not very much was transferred "to the trailer axles". And this was with the wdh being adjusted to restore 100% of the "lost weight" from the truck's front axle.

Left weights:
Truck and tt with wd bars hooked up

Center weights:
Truck and tt with wd bars unhooked

Right weights:
Truck only

Weights top to bottom:
Truck front axle
Teuck rear axle
TT axles
Total combined weight



When I hooked the trailer up (without the wd bars) I "lost" 540lbs off the front axle due to the teeter-totter effect. When the wd bars are installed (after hitch was adjusted) you can see that only only 240lbs of the tw was transferred to the tt axles (tt axles left column vs center column). This will vary depending on the truck and trailer combo, as well as the loaded weights.

Hope this helps!

[cmcdar]

Don't forget to factor in the weight of the WDH.

If you will not be towing your trailer far, you will likely be ok.

Towing at the top limits of a tow vehicle - long distance - will NOT be fun.

Been there done that!

[fx2tom]

Rickincali wrote:
Thanks for the answer and clarification. That is how I understood it as well.

It is amazing the bad info given out by the sales persons.

It's too bad that most salespeople don't take the time to educate themselves. We had a great sales lady at GiantRV in Colton, she knew more than most anyone I've met about anything TT related.

[Rickincali]

Thanks for the answer and clarification. That is how I understood it as well.

It is amazing the bad info given out by the sales persons.

[APT]

coolmom42 wrote:
Your WDH does not reduce the tongue weight. The total tongue weight is still ALL on the tow vehicle. So you have to take all of it into consideration in the cargo capacity of the tow vehicle.

What a WDH does is move part of the tongue weight to the front axle, vs having it all on the rear axle. So it may help reduce overloading the rear axle.

A slight clarification: a WDH can reduce TW carried by the TV axles, but it does not reduce the TW for the receiver. It is possible to put 20 percent of TW on the trailer axles for many vehicles when fully restoring front axle weight to unhitched amount.

[coolmom42]

Your WDH does not reduce the tongue weight. The total tongue weight is still ALL on the tow vehicle. So you have to take all of it into consideration in the cargo capacity of the tow vehicle.

What a WDH does is move part of the tongue weight to the front axle, vs having it all on the rear axle. So it may help reduce overloading the rear axle.

[Rickincali]

Thanks for all the replies. I truly appreciate them. So much information to take in.

I was able to weigh my truck today as if we were going camping and I was 30 pounds light on my payload numbers.

Front Axle - 2980
Rear Axle - 3300
Total Axle - 6280

That puts my leftover payload at 820 Lbs.

So if I understand correctly, If I am able to load the trailer and keep the Tongue/WDH weight combo under this number and close to 12% of trailer weight, I am within limits of my truck(barely)

Also, if I understand correctly, the tongue/WDH weight will spread out between the 2 TV axles and partially the trailer axles. So I should remain under my max axle weights both front and back.

Bottom line I guess is while I should be able to tow this within limits I am pushing the max of of TV and it might not be a pleasant experience. I already tried talking the wife into a new TV but no luck there. Yet.

Part of the deal does include a Fastway E2 WDH and a brake controller. So I will be using a WDH to tow.

camp-n-family wrote:

If you're really concerned about staying under payload consider that a portion (~20percent)of that tongue weight will get transferred back onto the tt axles through the use of a wdh.

I have read so many different beliefs on this I am not sure what to believe anymore. While I understand that the WDH will help redistribute the load across the front/rear/trailer axles, does it actually reduce the tongue weight?

I had a salesman tell me the same thing(I am skeptical). So all of a sudden my fully loaded 828Lbs(12% OF 6900) tongue weight turns to 640(828-20%)?? Seems to good to be true. If that is the case then I would feel more comfortable towing this trailer.

I do have the 5.7 Liter with 4.30 rear end and tow/haul mode so I am not really worried about power.

Thanks again to everyone. I have a lot to think about.

[Greene728]

Welcome Rick!
I won't get into all the technical stuff because it's already pretty well spelling out for you above. Not only that but based off your initial post it's pretty obvious that you are a smart man and already done your homework pretty well before even posting. Big kudos to you for that too!
I'll just say this. You can probably pull it off. However, I feel your gonna be exhausted and stressed slap out when reaching your destination. That my friend is no fun and greatly reduces the fun, relaxation, and enjoyment of the RVing experience. My honest advice is to either look smaller or look for a more capable tow vehicle. Best of luck to you!

[fla-gypsy]

It is probably marginal but safe to do with an experienced and careful operator. How well it performs hooked up is completely subjective. A good integrated WD/SC hitch is a must in this situation.

[mtofell1]

Rickincali wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I will get my TV weighed and see where I am at then. This is quite a learning experience to say the least.

Weighing tow vehicles usually results in a surprise. There just seems to be that 250# or so that you can't account for. According to the sticker on the door my truck weighed 6960# coming off the factory line and I've never weighed it at under about 7250#. I'm about 80# over the allotted driver weight that should be already accounted for but who knows? Past that I suppose it's just the stuff that I always have in the truck - bowl of change in the console, floor mats, etc, etc.

As for your TT I think you're pushing it. I did the whole towing at the max with a 1/2 ton and it's just not that enjoyable compared to what RVing can be.

[camp-n-family]

Your tongue weight will be higher than you think and will probably put you right at, or even slightly over your payload number. With that said I still think you'll be fine towing that tt. Payload numbers are only one factor to consider and are very conservative. A hundred pounds over isn't going to hurt anything. I'm not saying you should ignore it but I wouldn't base my decision on that alone. More importantly you will be well under the axle and tire ratings.

If you're really concerned about staying under payload consider that a portion (~20percent)of that tongue weight will get transferred back onto the tt axles through the use of a wd hitch. See if the dealer will let you hook up and go to the scales. It won't be loaded but will give you an idea of actual weight.