Need help with comfortable towing weight and length.

[Gerald1755]

I'm sure this question has been covered multiple times before so please forgive me. I have the following truck and I am trying to decide what would be an appropriate trailer to purchase. I understand that the payload includes all passengers cargo in truck and hitch weight. What I would like to know is what would be a comfortable weight and length trailer to tow. I am thinking somewhere between 25' and 28'. Is that a good range? What about max gvw of trailer? 6,000-7000? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

2011 f-150 4x4 super crew 145"wheelbase 
5.0l v8 6spd auto
3.55  gears
7200 gvwr pkg
1560 payload 

[BenK]

Proteus wrote:

snip...

Its the same basic engine design used in Europe for years, in commercial light trucks and Sprinter vans (same with the 7spd trans). My friend has an older ML320 with 350k miles+ on original motor, so I expect this to last 10-15 years easy. MB diesels have a rep for being bulletproof in general.

I guess the question is, why haven't domestic car makers caught up?

Jeep is putting a similar 3L TDI in the new Grand Cherokee (sourced from Fiat). Both can get 30mpg+ on the highway (I'm getting 28 now in my break-in period). I'm sure it drops in half with a heavy trailer though...

Design margin and over all engineering are what I've always thought it was...

My 1970 2 seater's 2.4L in-line six & 4 speed manual got +30MPG and
occasionally 32MPG, but ate gas when 'on it'...down to 13-16 MPG going
+130MPH...of course it weighs in around 2,400 with me in it... 🙂

That with a side draft SU/Hitachi that I bored out, polished and racing
needles in over sized jets. Taper was extremely aggressive and had
STP in the dash pots.

OBTW, a hogged out and stroked 3.1L is built and ready, but now
noodling forced feeding it...yeah, blew up that 4 speed tranny power
shifting to 3rd at around 100 MPH

[BenK]

rightyouareken wrote:

BenK wrote:

1560 payload

 

This is based on the OEM's 'curb' weight and only has one 150lb driver
and the tow option.

Unless you have that stripper model and only weigh 150lbs, then that
1560 lb payload does NOT apply to your TV

Reference the below diagram to make sense of what I just said

The payload rating doesn't assume a 150 lb driver. The sticker says "The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed..." so if he's getting this number from his sticker on the door that is amount of weight he can add to the truck as it left the factory with full fuel. Anybody in the truck, cargo, and tongue weight, must be less than that amount.

Hidden in that the payload is determined using the 'curb', which has
one 150lb driver and liquids (some full, some partial)

[Proteus]

BenK wrote:

bmanning wrote:
snip...

455ft/lb out of 3L is VERY impressive.

GM's 8.1L big-block V8 puts out around that amount.

While not apples-to-apples, still pretty amazing that a 3L motor can put out the same torque as an 8.1L motor.

What many 'newbie' folks to boy racer stuff forget or do not know
that force feeding a small ICE (internal combustion engine) makes it
perform like a larger displacement ICE that is not forced fed (naturally
aspired)

That that 3L V6 with a turbo...it depends on the controls (old days
waste gate, but today computer controlled vanes inside the turbo) might
allow 15PSI over atmosphere...meaning that 3L V6 now ingests big block
amounts of air and fuel, which is both why it has such high output
and low MPG when on the turbo

At about 15PSI...that 3L is being forced to ingest about twice that
amount of air...so really performing like a naturally aspired 6L

Key is it's longevity and the jury is still out for me

Its the same basic engine design used in Europe for years, in commercial light trucks and Sprinter vans (same with the 7spd trans). My friend has an older ML320 with 350k miles+ on original motor, so I expect this to last 10-15 years easy. MB diesels have a rep for being bulletproof in general. I guess the question is, why haven't domestic car makers caught up? Jeep is putting a similar 3L TDI in the new Grand Cherokee (sourced from Fiat). Both can get 30mpg+ on the highway (I'm getting 28 now in my break-in period). I'm sure it drops in half with a heavy trailer though...

[ependydad]

Gerald1755 wrote:
I'm sure this question has been covered multiple times before so please forgive me. I have the following truck and I am trying to decide what would be an appropriate trailer to purchase. I understand that the payload includes all passengers cargo in truck and hitch weight. What I would like to know is what would be a comfortable weight and length trailer to tow. I am thinking somewhere between 25' and 28'. Is that a good range? What about max gvw of trailer? 6,000-7000? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

2011 f-150 4x4 super crew 145"wheelbase 
5.0l v8 6spd auto
3.55  gears
7200 gvwr pkg
1560 payload 

The 1,560 payload is the maximum available. Everything you add onto and into the truck deducts from that. It usually includes a 150 pound driver, but no passengers, nothing in the truck bed, nothing ON the truck bed (cover or cap), no electronics, no maps, no atlases, no foods, snacks, hitch, firewood, coolers, clothes, games for the kids, activities for the kids, car seats, booster seats, etc., etc. and so on.

After EVERYTHING else, you then can carry the tongue weight of the camper which is typically 10%-15% of the camper's *actual* loaded weight. This *actual* loaded weight is typically (and there are extremes either way) 1,000 to 1,500 pounds over the advertised "dry weight".

The best thing you can do- load up your truck, family and all of the******you'd normally carry on a trip and go hit a scale. CAT scale at a truck stop is all over, or quarry or bulk landscape supply or grain place, etc. Find your real truck's weight and subtract it from your GVWR (7,200 pounds).

What Can I Tow?

[BenK]

Oh....better put in some details for folks to understand what I just said...

Take the crank shaft journal bearing between that turbo'd 3L and NA 6L

Almost twice the volume in the CC, so lots more power from the combustion stroke

In the NA 6L, that journal is sized for the expected worst case combustion PSI
on the piston top. That is then transmitted to the crank journal via connecting
rod (wrist pin on top end and journal bearing on the bottom end)

Designers have calculated that expected worst case plus some margin.

The oil system is then designed to provide the PSI at some GPH so that the journal
bearing does NOT go metal to metal. You folks know that a journal bearing on
an ICE crank is designed to not go metal to metal, but to float the crank journal
and rod journal on an oil film, right?

If the turb'd 3L's journal isn't designed for that kind of PSI...over time the
journal bearing surfaces will go metal to metal.

Did they increase the dia and width to lower the PSI? Did they increase the PSI@GPH
to have the oil not get squished out?

Question is how much and how often it goes metal to metal...meaning longevity is
determined by that

[skipnchar]

The tongue weight will be the most important weight you need to watch. Figure 15% of any trailers GVWR as the "fully loaded tongue weight". If you're under that weight the others should be easily achieved. Now that being said, the COMFORT level of any trailer will be a completely subjective issue and will depend on you the driver. Your own skills and experience will be the most important thing about comfort level. The truck is perfectly capable of doing what it's warranted to do. Just factor in all of the caveats to determine what that limit actually is. Tow RATINGS are always figured for an empty truck so subtract from the rating, the weight of everything and every one in the truck. Remember that payload means EVERYTHING the truck carries including the ACTUAL trailer tongue. Don't get confused and use empty weight (UVW) or dry tongue weight because nobody tows around a completely empty trailer.

Good luck / Skip

[BenK]

bmanning wrote:
snip...

455ft/lb out of 3L is VERY impressive.

GM's 8.1L big-block V8 puts out around that amount.

While not apples-to-apples, still pretty amazing that a 3L motor can put out the same torque as an 8.1L motor.

What many 'newbie' folks to boy racer stuff forget or do not know
that force feeding a small ICE (internal combustion engine) makes it
perform like a larger displacement ICE that is not forced fed (naturally
aspired)

That that 3L V6 with a turbo...it depends on the controls (old days
waste gate, but today computer controlled vanes inside the turbo) might
allow 15PSI over atmosphere...meaning that 3L V6 now ingests big block
amounts of air and fuel, which is both why it has such high output
and low MPG when on the turbo

At about 15PSI...that 3L is being forced to ingest about twice that
amount of air...so really performing like a naturally aspired 6L

Key is it's longevity and the jury is still out for me

[bmanning]

Proteus wrote:
This explains a great many comments on the board about towing in the mountains. With all these large block truck engines, I expected that they would produce strong power and torque? Didn't realize how inefficient they were. The Ford F150 5.4 looks like 260hp and 350ft-lbs of torque. Compared to my little 3L V6 TDI with 240hp and 455ftlbs.

Tell me again why a modern SUV with a V6 is bad?

455ft/lb out of 3L is VERY impressive.

GM's 8.1L big-block V8 puts out around that amount.

While not apples-to-apples, still pretty amazing that a 3L motor can put out the same torque as an 8.1L motor.

[APT]

Proteus wrote:

Tell me again why a modern SUV with a V6 is bad?

The power (of your turbocharged diesel) is great. The chassis, suspension, and receiver are a bit weak for 30' 7k pound RVs.

Few people with 2010+ tow vehicles complain about towing power. How they handle the weight of the family, gear, and TW are a different story.

[rightyouareken]

Proteus wrote:
This explains a great many comments on the board about towing in the mountains. With all these large block truck engines, I expected that they would produce strong power and torque? Didn't realize how inefficient they were. The Ford F150 5.4 looks like 260hp and 350ft-lbs of torque. Compared to my little 3L V6 TDI with 240hp and 455ftlbs.

Tell me again why a modern SUV with a V6 is bad?

Apples and oranges. Yours is a turbo diesel which make more torque than gas engines by nature.

Fwiw, the Ford 5.0 v8 the op is asking about is rated at 360hp and 380 ft lbs.

[TomG2]

APT wrote:
Under 6k dry is a good number for most half tons, including yours. Payload, receiver limit are likely to be exceeded when towing an RV near the tow ratings.

Good advice. At 6,000 pounds total weight, your tongue weight should be in the 750-900 pound range which will leave you some room for passengers and "stuff" before running out of payload. People that exceed their payload are often on here asking about better hitches, overload springs, Timbrens, gear changes, or such. Hardly ever about engine power.

[Proteus]

This explains a great many comments on the board about towing in the mountains. With all these large block truck engines, I expected that they would produce strong power and torque? Didn't realize how inefficient they were. The Ford F150 5.4 looks like 260hp and 350ft-lbs of torque. Compared to my little 3L V6 TDI with 240hp and 455ftlbs.

Tell me again why a modern SUV with a V6 is bad?

[rfryer]

“Comfortable” is sort of an elusive word, it can mean many things to many people. I have an F150 5.4 4x4 with a 3:55 axle. Most of my travel is in the mountains and I wouldn’t be comfortable pulling a 6000# TT. Mostly because I don’t have much tolerance for slow, high rpm climbs. Others would be very comfortable with that weight and even more. You do have the 6 speed transmission which I don’t have and I don’t know how much difference that would make.

In the flats the heavier TT is comfortable to tow. But you will certainly notice the weight if you do much mountain driving and only you can judge whether you would be comfortable with it. In general, though, if you do a lot of mountain driving the lighter the TT the better. I’d avoid towing near your max unless you always stay in the flats. My perception reading posts for a long time is that most people who tow near max aren’t happy with it, the TV’s kick down a gear on the slightest grade.

I haven’t given you any numbers to work with and don’t know if this is much help to you. But I didn’t notice any comments about the terrain you plan to tow being a factor in your comfort level. Good luck.

[bikendan]

Gerald1755 wrote:
Thanks Mr. Landry.
So i guess my problem is I don't know the tow rating of my truck. I thought that the gvwr is the max truck and all cargo and passengers. Or am I wrong? What is or where can I find the max tow rating.
Again, thanks for the help.

all you need to do, is Google "2011 Ford Towing Guide".
all the info is there and you probably have it with the owner's manual.

it shows, based on your info, you have a towing capacity of 7700lbs., which is rated with only a 150lbs. driver in the truck and full tank of gas and nothing else.

[rightyouareken]

BenK wrote:

1560 payload

 

This is based on the OEM's 'curb' weight and only has one 150lb driver
and the tow option.

Unless you have that stripper model and only weigh 150lbs, then that
1560 lb payload does NOT apply to your TV

Reference the below diagram to make sense of what I just said

The payload rating doesn't assume a 150 lb driver. The sticker says "The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed..." so if he's getting this number from his sticker on the door that is amount of weight he can add to the truck as it left the factory with full fuel. Anybody in the truck, cargo, and tongue weight, must be less than that amount.