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Overwhelmingly BIO-diesel in Portland, Oregon

ParkCountry
Explorer
Explorer
We're now in Portland, Oregon, having spent the past few days in Bend, Oregon. One thing I have really, really noticed here is the difficulty in finding PURE DIESEL. Just be aware that most stations that carry Diesel here will be a mixture of between 5% and 20% BIO-diesel. If you get on the GasBuddy.com website and try finding the cheapest diesel, the cheaper/cheapest listings will be Bio-diesel. Where some stations are charging ss low as $2.19/gallon, I finally found a Chevron station in Troutdale (just east of Portland) at the I-84, Exit 17, location that sells PURE diesel ($2.59/gallon). Just look for the huge Love's Travel Stop and this Chevron station is right next to it on the west side. I have nothing but contempt for the "environmentalists" and the Federal government for pulling this **** on the American public. We are headed for the Oregon Coast in 2 days. Does anyone know if the same problem exists out there, and suggested stations for PURE Diesel?
78 REPLIES 78

dennis1
Explorer
Explorer
Fred Meyer diesel is not bio. Shell is bio. Warrenton near Astoria and close to Fort Stevens State park has a Fred Meyers.By the way you can pump your own diesel in Oregon. Safeway is bio. Oregon coast Newport has a Fred Meyers. There are two Fred Meyers on Highway 26. One in Sandy, on in Gresham. If you go to Sandy Oregon stop a Joe's Donut. Best donuts you can buy, better than Krisppy Cream.
My new DRW and camper on the truck the first time.

SBradley
Explorer
Explorer
A new study points to the negative results of using Bio Fuels.


University of Michigan’s Energy Institute research professor John DeCicco, Ph.D., believes that rising carbon dioxide emissions cause global warming and, therefore, humans must find a way to reduce its levels in the atmosphere. But ethanol is the wrong solution.
According to his just-released study, political support for biofuels, particularly ethanol, exacerbates the problem instead of curing it.

DeCicco and his co-authors assert: “Contrary to popular belief, the heat-trapping carbon dioxide gas emitted when biofuels are burned is not fully balanced by the CO2 uptake that occurs as the plants grow.” The presumption that biofuels emit significantly fewer greenhouse gases (GHG) than gasoline does is, according to DeCicco: “misguided.”

His research has upended the conventional wisdom and angered the alternative fuel lobbyists. The headline-grabbing claim is that biofuels prove worse for the environment than gasoline.

DeCicco has been focused on this topic for nearly a decade. In 2007, when the Energy Independence and Security Act (also known as the expanded ethanol mandate) was in the works, he told me: “I realized that something seemed horribly amiss with a law that established a sweeping mandate which rested on assumptions, not scientific fact, that were unverified and might be quite wrong, even though they were commonly accepted and politically correct (and politically convenient).” He saw that while biofuels sounded good, no one had checked the math.

Previously, based on life cycle analysis, it has been assumed that crop-based biofuels, were not just carbon neutral, but actually offered modest net GHG reductions. This, DeCicco says, is the “premise of most climate related fuel policies promulgated to date, including measures such as the LCFS [California’s Low Carbon Fuel Standard] and RFS [the federal Renewable Fuel Standard passed in 2005 and expanded in 2007].”

The DeCicco study, Carbon balance effects of U.S. biofuel production and use, uses Annual Basis Carbon (ABC) accounting—which does not treat biofuels as inherently carbon neutral. Instead, it treats biofuels as “part of a dynamic stock-and-flow system.” Its methodology “tallies CO2 emissions based on the chemistry in the specific locations where they occur.” In May, on my radio program, DeCicco explained: “Life Cycle Analysis is wrong because it fails to actually look at what is going on at the farms.”

The concept behind DeCicco’s premise is that the idea of ethanol being carbon neutral assumes that the ground where the corn is grown was barren dirt (without any plants removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere) before the farmer decided to plant corn for ethanol. If that were the case, then, yes, planting corn on that land, converting that corn to ethanol that is then burned as a vehicle fuel, might come close to being carbon neutral. But the reality is that land already had corn, or some other crop, growing on it—so that land’s use was already absorbing CO2. You can’t count it twice.

DeCicco explains “Growing the corn that becomes ethanol absorbs no more carbon from the air than the corn that goes into cattle feed or corn flakes. Burning the ethanol releases essentially the same amount of CO2 as burning gasoline. No less CO2 went into the air from the tailpipe; no more CO2 was removed from the air at the cornfield. So where’s the climate benefit?”

Much of that farmland was growing corn to feed cattle and chickens—also known as feedstock. The RFS requires an ever-increasing amount of ethanol be blended into the nation’s fuel supply. Since the RFS became law in 2005, the amount of land dedicated to growing corn for ethanol has increased from 12.4 percent of the overall corn crop to 38.6 percent. While the annual supply of corn has increased by 17 percent, the amount going into feedstock has decreased from 57.5 percent to 37.98%.

The rub comes from the fact that we are not eating less. Globally, more food is required, not less. The livestock still needs to be fed. So while the percentage of corn going into feedstock in the U.S. has decreased because of the RFS, that corn is now grown somewhere else. One such place is Brazil where previous pasture land, because it is already flat, has been converted to growing corps. Ranchers have been pushed out to what was forest and deforestation is taking place.

Adding to the biofuels-are-worse-than-gasoline accounting are the effects from producing ethanol. You have to cook it and ferment it—which requires energy. In the process, CO2 bubbles off. By expanding the quantity of corn grown, prairie land is busted up and stored CO2 is released.

DeCicco says: “it is this domino effect that makes ethanol worse.”

How much worse?

The study looks at the period with the highest increase in ethanol production due to the RFS: 2005-2013. The conclusion is that the increased carbon dioxide uptake by the crops was only enough to offset 37 percent of the CO2 emissions due to biofuel combustion.

DeCicco’s research finds, that while further work is needed to examine the research and policy implications going forward, “it makes more sense to soak up CO2 through reforestation and redouble efforts to protect forests rather than producing biofuels, which puts carbon rich lands at risk.”
S Bradley
Navion IQ 24V

Powerdude
Explorer
Explorer
Of course, the problem with biofuels is that fact that you need biology to actually make them, and that requires lots of water.

Water is a resource which is not infinite. It requires energy to pump out of the ground and infrastructure to distribute.

Probably more so than oil, since you need greater quantities of water AND fossil fuels to get the water to the plant.

Source
2016 F250 CCSB 4x4 6.2L
2001 Lance 820

mike-uswest
Explorer II
Explorer II
I have been longer also, but the whole nation is getting greener, and Oregon breaks it's neck to be at the top of the green list. The working people be darned, in other words.

Mike
2019 Ram 2500 TCD, 4X4,
Arctic Fox 25Y 30'

soje
Explorer
Explorer
goducks10 wrote:
soje wrote:
as a resident of Oregon , it is SAD to see how green/liberal this place has become.
I try to avoid the B20 stations WHEN possible. I have had filter problems running B20.


How long have you lived here? I'm an Oregon native for 63 years and it's always been greener than green ultra liberal.

Longer than you

nevadanick
Explorer
Explorer
Doesnt really matter what they are selling when you need it.

goducks10
Explorer
Explorer
soje wrote:
as a resident of Oregon , it is SAD to see how green/liberal this place has become.
I try to avoid the B20 stations WHEN possible. I have had filter problems running B20.


How long have you lived here? I'm an Oregon native for 63 years and it's always been greener than green ultra liberal.

thomas201
Explorer
Explorer
In a nutshell:

100% Bio diesel 37.8 MJ/kg
Fossil diesel 48.1 MJ/kg

So you gotta burn more to go the same distance. Then translate into cost per mile. So bio blends were a little more expensive per mile the last time I checked, then consider the extra emissions from production and transportation of the extra volume of fuel and the environmental savings begin to disappear.

I ran a rendering plant, we produced fats that could become bio diesel, but we never made it. The numbers did not work for our truck fleet. However, we were very happy to sell it to others.

jus2shy
Explorer
Explorer
B20 isn't as proliferated as people here make it seem. Yeah you can find it easy enough, but you typically have to be looking for it. By and large everything here is mostly b5. They typically advertise on the signs and pump when it is a higher mixture of bio above B5 (like B10, B20 or B99).

Low mixtures of bio are typically good for a diesel in that they reintroduce all the lost lubricity of diesel without hurting the emissions system, typically not hurting the seals and gaskets, and keep the entire fuel system clean(talking b2 to b5). In fact these low blends of bio are treated under the same astm spec as pure diesel since it's able to meet the same performance specs (d975), while higher mixes get a different spec (astm d6751 and d7467 for B100 and B6 to B20 respectively). So using the very low blend (up to B5) is pretty much a non-issue as it conforms to the same specs as full-petrol diesel. It is the higher blends that user should be aware of and are typically well branded and labeled. At least that's what I've found in the area.

Another side note. After a little bit of digging, I found that labelling is not required for blends up to B5 since it meets the same ASTM standard as regular petrol diesel. So that's why you won't see labels on the pumps in Washington and Oregon for up to B5 diesel
E'Aho L'ua
2013 RAM 3500 Crew Cab 4x4 SRW |Cummins @ 370/800| 68RFE| 3.42 gears
Currently Rig-less (still shopping and biding my time)

soje
Explorer
Explorer
as a resident of Oregon , it is SAD to see how green/liberal this place has become.
I try to avoid the B20 stations WHEN possible. I have had filter problems running B20.

overhill7
Explorer
Explorer
darsben1 wrote:
Why are people confusing this thread with facts. The OP is against bio-diesel and he has a perfect right to be against whether he is right or WRONG.


X2

FishOnOne
Nomad
Nomad
I recently filled up at a Love's truck stop and to my surprise they sell B20.
'12 Ford Super Duty FX4 ELD CC 6.7 PSD 400HP 800ft/lbs "270k Miles"
'16 Sprinter 319MKS "Wide Body"

ktmrfs
Explorer
Explorer
ramgunner wrote:
How about truck stops in the area like Jubitz? What are they selling?


B5 at the least, haven't seen B20 at to many truck stops
2011 Keystone Outback 295RE
2004 14' bikehauler with full living quarters
2015.5 Denali 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison
2004.5 Silverado 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison passed on to our Son!

ktmrfs
Explorer
Explorer
Grit dog wrote:
^^. Uhoh!!

Fwiw, I filled up with diesel in Portland 2 days ago. Didn't see what it was cause I could t even get out and pump it, lol. But I made it home just fine....


???? you definitely can pump your own diesel in oregon. Been doing that for 15 years. Most pump jockys will thank you. you can't pump your own gas unless it is into a motorycye or special interest car.
2011 Keystone Outback 295RE
2004 14' bikehauler with full living quarters
2015.5 Denali 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison
2004.5 Silverado 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison passed on to our Son!

ktmrfs
Explorer
Explorer
mich800 wrote:
ktmrfs wrote:
Michelle.S wrote:
I think if you research deep enough, you will find out that pure diesel you bought may still be B5, because I believe for blends of B5 or less that don't have to post anymore. If more that B5 will generally posted as Up To B20.


in oregon the "up to B20" can be up to, but the way to tell if it is B20 or less is to see if it is exempt from road tax. If it is B20 it is exempt, if less it is not. Pretty obvious since it is then usually $.25 less than the B5


Are you sure about that? I know the biofuel industry is subsidized. That is the primary reason for it being cheaper. To entice consumers to use it. Not that there is no road tax on it. Around here it is much cheaper if you find b20 but it is most definitely taxed.


I know B20 is exempt from oregon state road tax and have verified that with the state. In fact one option in oregon is to pay by the mile and get a refund of fuel tax paid based on the mpg they derive from your obdII readout. to sign up for that program with a diesel you have to agree not to use B20 since it is exempt from road tax to start with.
2011 Keystone Outback 295RE
2004 14' bikehauler with full living quarters
2015.5 Denali 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison
2004.5 Silverado 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison passed on to our Son!