Payload "capacity/rating" - not even the OEM's agree?

[RinconVTR]

There are two things that bother me most on this site, of which too many jump on the band wagon and become self-proclaimed experts repeating the same thing over and over until it becomes gospel.

1) Using GTWR (gross trailer weight rating) to find a tow vehicle to tow said trailer. Rarely will you find this in print anywhere but here. Yes, you’ll end up buying one heck of a TV, have big power, and capacity reserve, but this could easily result in overkill at a very high cost. Or the shopper feels forced to buy something too small and they don’t enjoy fully their experience.

I like what Trailer Life says the best:
When purchasing a trailer, consult the weight sticker on
the unit of your choice on a
dealer’s lot and refer to the UVW and CCC.
Estimate how much cargo you will add,
being mindful of the GVWR, and use that number
while selecting a tow vehicle.


2) Payload is king and cannot be exceeded. Time and time again, I hear “that truck doesn’t have enough payload capacity” and find many pickup trucks have payload caps that match mid-size SUV’s. Which seems crazy. One cant go wrong being conservative, but again, at what point does being extremely conservative begin to unnecessarily cost the buyer.

My stance on payload? Front and Rear Axle ratings, GVR and GCVR are king and can sometimes override payload ratings. If you stick to these ratings, which payload is derived from, you’ll find more realistic towing figures. But what’s in print?

Per Ford and Chevy towing guide, which make little to no mention of payload capacity, seem to be on my side of the fence. Dodge (towing guide) is a real red headed step child that makes little sense to me, as they exclude all towing factors from GVR. And ironically only Toyota (towing guide) mimics most statements on here, but leaves out axle weight ratings completly.

Here are the most relevant quotes related to payload from each recent OEM towing guide;

Ford:

Trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight should be 10-15% (15-25% for 5th-wheel towing) of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by
option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue
(trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the
vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label.

GCWR column shows maximum allowable combined weight of vehicle, trailer and cargo (including passengers) for each engine/axle ratio combination. Maximum Loaded
Trailer Weight assumes a towing vehicle with any mandatory options, no cargo, tongue load of 10-15% (conventional trailer) or king pin weight of 15-25% (5th-wheel trailer) and driver
only (150 pounds). Weight of additional options, passengers, cargo and hitch must be deducted from this weight. Also check Required and Recommended Equipment.

GMC:
Trailer tongue weight should be 10 percent to 15 percent of total loadedtrailer weight (up to 600 lbs). Addition of trailer tongue weight must not cause vehicle to exceed Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (RGAWR) or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR).

FIFTH-WHEEL AND GOOSENECK HITCH NOTES: Trailer kingpin weight should be 15 percent to 25 percent of total loaded trailer weight. For 1500 Series models, the trailer
kingpin weight should be up to 1500 lbs. The addition of trailer kingpin weight cannot cause vehicle to exceed Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (RGAWR) or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). 1500
SERIES MODEL NOTES: For automatic transmission models, an additional transmission oil cooler (KNP) is available.

With trailer towing capacity, you must consider the gross combination weight rating. This figure includes the gross vehicle weight plus the gross vehicle weight of the trailer. When added together, you should never exceed this figure for any reason.

Chevy:

RGAWR AND GVWR: Addition of trailer hitch weight cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (RGAWR) or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). These ratings can be
found on the certification label located on the driver door or door frame.

GCWR: The Gross Combination Weight Rating is the total allowable weight of the completely loaded vehicle and trailer.
TRAILER weight RATING : This rating is determined by subtracting the tow vehicle’s weight (curb weight) from the GCWR. Base vehicle (curb) weight is used, so additional passenger, equipment and
cargo weight reduces this rating.

Maximum trailer weight ratings are calculated assuming a base vehicle, except for any option(s) necessary to achieve the rating, plus driver. The weight of other optional equipment, passengers and cargo will reduce the maximum trailer weight your vehicle can tow.

4 Maximum payload capacity includes weight of driver,
passengers, optional equipment and cargo.

5 Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). When properly equipped; includes vehicle, passengers, cargo and equipment.

NOTE: Trailertongue weight should be 10 to 15 percent of total loaded trailer weight (up to 1,500 lbs. on 2500HD and 3500HD models). Trailer kingpin weight should be 15 to 25 percent of total loaded trailer weight (up to 3,000 lbs. on 2500HD
models and up to 3,500 lbs. on 3500HD models). • Addition of trailer tongue weight/trailer kingpin weight cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (RGAWR) or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR).

Dodge:

Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) is the total weight of a fully loaded vehicle, including passengers and payload – but excluding all towing.

Gross Combined Vehicle Weight (GCVW) is the total combined weight of a fully loaded vehicle, including passengers, payload and everything in tow.

Toyota:
A truck’s published payload capacity or rating is the starting guideline for carrying cargo. Payload is the weight of everything that a truck can carry and includes vehicle occupants, optional equipment, contents in the pickup bed or cabin and the tongue weight of a trailer.

The maximum payload capacity is determined by subtracting the
vehicle curb weight from the manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR).

Owners expecting to haul loads approaching the published payload rating for a particular truck configuration should weigh the vehicle at a commercial scale with a full tank of gas to ensure that the GVWR is not exceeded when the expected passengers and cargo are loaded.

Another critical consideration:
Tongue weight must be included in the tow vehicle’s payload.


Finally, Trailer Life Towing Guide, like Ford and Chevy, makes little to no mention of payload "capacity or rating" within their calulations or example. I'm opting not to post the example, but I will post their definitions as they include cargo/payload but not as a rating they utilize.

Gross Combination Weight Rating
(GCWR): The total allowable weight of the tow
vehicle, the trailer, the cargo in each, hitch
hardware, fluids and occupants.

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR): The
total allowable weight for the vehicle, including
occupants, fluids, options, hitch hardware,
cargo and trailer-hitch weight.

Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR): The
total allowable weight on an individual axle.
This includes the weight of the tires, wheels,
brakes and the axle itself.

Maximum Tow Rating: The manufacturer’s
weight limit for towed loads. For conventional
trailers, this normally includes a hitchweight
limit as well; for fifth-wheels, the pin
weight is applied to the truck’s GVWR and its
rear-axle GAWR.

[wilber1]

Me Again wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

Me Again wrote:

wilber1 wrote:



Licensing for a different GVWR than placarded is intended for commercial operators.

In the State of Washington ALL pickups at licensed at 1.5 tare weight rounded to the next higher even ton.

Commercial or private makes no difference.

Regarding GVWR in BC, Jimnlin has posted a number of times about that, and points to where that ruling actually points to standard weight laws and LEO's doing the GVWR thing are mis-informed!

Chris

FAQ's GVWR in BC

OK, here is a post made by jimnlin back in March:

"RV folks sure get confused on BC weight regulations actually says.

The link supplied by VintageRacer is a information sheet only and is not regulatory or a written law. There are 2-3 other versions BC has floating around the net. But they all tell us quote;

"This information sheet is intended to assist you. Should conflict arise please refer to the Motor Vehicle Act and Regulation".

Now we go to BC Motor Vehicle Act and Regulations and regulation;
section 19.05; ......(snipped for length)

(2) The driver of a vehicle on a highway, when directed by a traffic sign on the highway to drive over scales, shall drive the vehicle to the scales for the purpose of weighing the whole or part thereof by means of stationary or portable scales, measuring the dimensions of the vehicle and load, measuring and inspecting the tires thereon, inspecting the load carried, or for any purpose under this Act or regulations.

(3) The gross weight of any tandem axles and the gross weight of any group of axles shall be the sum of the gross axle weights of all the axles comprising the tandem axles or the group of axles, as the case may be.

(4) The gross weight of any vehicle or combination of vehicles shall be the sum of the individual gross axle weights of all the axles of the vehicle or combination of vehicles.

(en. B.C. Reg. 68/71, s. 5; am. B.C. Regs. 413/97, App. 1, s. 11; 135/2003, s. 6.)
****************************************************************

As in any state or province stay under the trucks axle/tire load ratings.
One thing I've noticed is that folks from BC say they are required to register their trucks at a "GVWR". The GVWR can be up to the sum of the vehicles axle ratings (GAWRs).

However as long as your registered according to your states requirement you will be fine going through BC or anywhere. "

Chris

I read that to and it is in the commercial vehicles section. I do agree that there is confusion regarding RV's in BC but it seems quite clear that you cannot register your vehicle for any more than it's combined axle ratings.

[Me_Again]

wilber1 wrote:



FAQ's GVWR in BC

OK, here is a post made by jimnlin back in March:

"RV folks sure get confused on BC weight regulations actually says.

The link supplied by VintageRacer is a information sheet only and is not regulatory or a written law. There are 2-3 other versions BC has floating around the net. But they all tell us quote;

"This information sheet is intended to assist you. Should conflict arise please refer to the Motor Vehicle Act and Regulation".

Now we go to BC Motor Vehicle Act and Regulations and regulation;
section 19.05; ......(snipped for length)

(2) The driver of a vehicle on a highway, when directed by a traffic sign on the highway to drive over scales, shall drive the vehicle to the scales for the purpose of weighing the whole or part thereof by means of stationary or portable scales, measuring the dimensions of the vehicle and load, measuring and inspecting the tires thereon, inspecting the load carried, or for any purpose under this Act or regulations.

(3) The gross weight of any tandem axles and the gross weight of any group of axles shall be the sum of the gross axle weights of all the axles comprising the tandem axles or the group of axles, as the case may be.

(4) The gross weight of any vehicle or combination of vehicles shall be the sum of the individual gross axle weights of all the axles of the vehicle or combination of vehicles.

(en. B.C. Reg. 68/71, s. 5; am. B.C. Regs. 413/97, App. 1, s. 11; 135/2003, s. 6.)
****************************************************************

As in any state or province stay under the trucks axle/tire load ratings.
One thing I've noticed is that folks from BC say they are required to register their trucks at a "GVWR". The GVWR can be up to the sum of the vehicles axle ratings (GAWRs).

However as long as your registered according to your states requirement you will be fine going through BC or anywhere. "

Here is a link to BC laws.

http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/LOC/freeside/--%20M%20--/46_Motor%20Vehicle%20A...

Here is another document to read:

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/cvse/references_publications/booklets1-6/pdf/Booklet_1_Commercial_Carriers.p...

Chris

[wilber1]

Me Again wrote:

wilber1 wrote:



Licensing for a different GVWR than placarded is intended for commercial operators.

In the State of Washington ALL pickups at licensed at 1.5 tare weight rounded to the next higher even ton.

Commercial or private makes no difference.

Regarding GVWR in BC, Jimnlin has posted a number of times about that, and points to where that ruling actually points to standard weight laws and LEO's doing the GVWR thing are mis-informed!

Chris

FAQ's GVWR in BC

[Terryallan]

Remember. Truck manufacturers do NOT write law. The weight they give are more for warranty.
Plus in NC, not to speak for any other state. But in NC. "Private Camping Trailers" are exempt from all NC weight laws. So you can pull it with what you want. Hopefully. Some common sense will kick in.

[blt2ski]

jmtandem wrote:

In montana, washington, oregon to name a few US states, one can do just as mowermech mentioned. I can license, pay for etc, an amount greater than my door tag, get pulled over by an leo, weighed, and still not get an overwt ticket for being 150% over my door sticker, along with 1200 over my paid for license. I was told to up the gcvwr from 26K to 28K with in 10 days, and keep until my next paid for renewal, I could then reduce the paid for gvw down to 26K.

I've yet to have an issue being weight over my door placard number.

Marty,

Is this a commercial truck you are talking about or a non-commercial purely recreational RV? Do they weigh non-comm RV's in Washington?

In washington state, ALL pickups are rquired to buy tonnage on there license, Does not matter if it is used for personal, rv, boat, commercial etc. ALL of us have to have a paid for license that is greater than our going down the road tonnage. We ALL have to buy tonnage in 2000 lbs increments, at 1.5 times the empty wt of the truck to the next highest ton. In "me Again' case, his dodge 2500 has a placard wt of 9900, his tare is 7300 or there about.....1.5 time 7300 is 10950, same tare as my old 3500 dually gm. We BOTH have 12K plates. Altho for my dually, the door placard is 11400. We are legal to 12K lbs gvwr. The door placard means squat. My 2000 C2500 is licensed to 8000 lbs. I am illegal at the door placard of 8600 lbs. As I am not paid to 8600 lbs. I would need a 10K paid for license to be legal at 8600. Reality is, I would also be legal to 10Klbs.

My SW pickups as does Me Again, we get 500 lbs per inch width of tire. Ea tire is about 10" wide, or 5000 per tire. 10K per axel, 20K per truck. We are only driving down the road at what maybe 10-12K? what chance in heck is an leo that is supposed to enforce the road bed/bridge engineer designed speced limits going to do with us? nothing, it is not even worth pulling us over to get weighed.

My duallies as most are, will be good close to if not 20K per the tire widths, with upwards of 10-12K on the front. Dullies get 600 lbs per inch width of tire. So the front 10" tire would go from 10K to 12K. If you have rears wider than 8.5", you would have the full 20K on the rear. My GM with 215 tires, is good to 21xxx lbs iirc at 600 lbs per inch. BUT, I am limited to 20K with that width tire. Even tho the tire sidewall is about 10-11K total for the 4 IIRC.

If you look up the RCW for the wt laws in this state, it is very specific to not go against the Federal bridge laws. as to NOT potentially loose teh federal funding that ALL states are to get, IF they allow the FBL's. So the FBL's over go the FMVSS rules. If a state inforces the FMVSS laws, over the FBL's, and proven, federal funds could go away, or get limited in that state.

EVERYONE gets up to 20K per axel, and 34K per tandem. The wt laws that I am talking about, go back into the early 1800's in some states on the east coast. My state, if you look up the wt laws, it still uses horse cart paths among other things. Those were limitied to what you could put on them, as to not have the metal wheel sink into gravel areas that the local city etc installed. Or bridges over streams, rivers etc.

The "bridge" part of the FBL is not for just bridges. Bridge in this instance is bridge or move the load over a wider area, ie not point loading the load on the road so you get asphalt/concrete flexing which can cause potholes etc. Or a literal bridge collapse! Some roads in winter can have limited tonnage on them , ie under 10 during a frost thaw. Too much wt on the road with frost heave can cause major breaks in the sub base of the asphalt or concrete.

The weight laws are there to protect the "roads" ie the road itself, not you and I from overloaded rigs, or other dangerous vehicles etc. Those are different laws and regs.

No they do not weigh rv's. Altho frankly, I wish they would at times, as MANY of the larger bus chassis type a motor homes, are running down the road with too much wt on the rear axels per the FBL's. They are under the FMVSS rated 25K axel. BUT they are causing damage to the roads being some 5000 lbs over what the roads are designed to carry, and probably not paying the appropriate tax/fee for the damage being caused.

Marty

[Me_Again]

wilber1 wrote:



Licensing for a different GVWR than placarded is intended for commercial operators.

In the State of Washington ALL pickups at licensed at 1.5 tare weight rounded to the next higher even ton.

Commercial or private makes no difference.

Regarding GVWR in BC, Jimnlin has posted a number of times about that, and points to where that ruling actually points to standard weight laws and LEO's doing the GVWR thing are mis-informed!

Chris

[TomG2]

PA12DRVR wrote:
....snip........
Can we come up with a new term: Rating ignorers?

Their motto, "What Ratings? We don't need no stinking ratings!"

[PA12DRVR]

It's really pretty simple. The manufacturers post "recommended" GVWR and GCWR figures. Once you buy the truck, you can take one of two choices;

1) Register it at a certain weight (based on how much license you can afford) and ignore the manufacturer's ratings; or

2) Try to stay within the manufacturer's ratings.

Approach #1 has a couple of zealous advocates on here who aren't willing to stand up and say that they ignore the manufacturer's ratings. Instead, they say some combination of "axle ratings are all that matters" "as long as I paid my license fees, I'm good" "the hotshot and commercial haulers laugh at the RV folks."

Approach #1 simply means that the users are ignoring the manufacturer's ratings. Fair enough, that's their choice. I think that choice deserves just as much belittling and perjorative naming as do the people who choose to stay within the manufacturer's ratings and get the lable of "weight police".

Can we come up with a new term: Rating ignorers?

[wilber1]

blt2ski wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

mowermech wrote:
Well, y'know, I really don't worry about all those numbers.
When I had a '94 Dodge 3500 dually, I registered it for 14,000 GVW. I simply didn't think I could ever exceed that, and I didn't. However, I eventually DID get around to weighing the rig, and discovered that it was 3,180 lbs. OVER the truck GCWR. Nothing bent, nothing broke, nobody was injured or killed, and the truck handled the Continental Divide, Snoqualmie Pass, and Donner Pass with no trouble.
When I register my "new" '01 Dodge 1500 QC short box, I will pay for 8000 GVW. Actually, I don't have much choice, since the GVWR is 6600 lbs. So, 8000 it will be!
The truck will be LEGAL, IMO that's what is most important!

EDIT: If you want to get even more confused, look up the axle manufacturer's specifications. You will probably find that the axle manufacturer says the axle can carry much more than the truck manufacturer says it can. Yep, the TRUCK is the limiting factor, NOT the axle!

You sure?

I can register my truck for any weight I want and will be charged accordingly but that doesn't make me legal if I exceed the placarded GVWR.

In montana, washington, oregon to name a few US states, one can do just as mowermech mentioned. I can license, pay for etc, an amount greater than my door tag, get pulled over by an leo, weighed, and still not get an overwt ticket for being 150% over my door sticker, along with 1200 over my paid for license. I was told to up the gcvwr from 26K to 28K with in 10 days, and keep until my next paid for renewal, I could then reduce the paid for gvw down to 26K.

I've yet to have an issue being weight over my door placard number.

Marty

I can do that in BC to but it doesn't supersede the placarded GVWR. If it did, why don't we all go out and buy 3/4 tons, register them for a 15K GVWR and use them to drag around 40 ft 5ers?

Licensing for a different GVWR than placarded is intended for commercial operators. EG. You need a big truck because you haul large bulky items or a lot of items and the only trucks that are big enough have GVWR's in the 25K range. In your case the items you haul take up a lot of space but don't weigh much and you will never be operating at a GW of more than 18K, so you register the truck at 18K and save a bunch on licensing and taxes.

Licencing your truck at a higher GW doesn't make it bigger, stronger or more powerful. It's just a piece of paper that says you paid a fee for a particular weight.

[jmtandem]

In montana, washington, oregon to name a few US states, one can do just as mowermech mentioned. I can license, pay for etc, an amount greater than my door tag, get pulled over by an leo, weighed, and still not get an overwt ticket for being 150% over my door sticker, along with 1200 over my paid for license. I was told to up the gcvwr from 26K to 28K with in 10 days, and keep until my next paid for renewal, I could then reduce the paid for gvw down to 26K.

I've yet to have an issue being weight over my door placard number.

Marty,

Is this a commercial truck you are talking about or a non-commercial purely recreational RV? Do they weigh non-comm RV's in Washington?

[blt2ski]

wilber1 wrote:

mowermech wrote:
Well, y'know, I really don't worry about all those numbers.
When I had a '94 Dodge 3500 dually, I registered it for 14,000 GVW. I simply didn't think I could ever exceed that, and I didn't. However, I eventually DID get around to weighing the rig, and discovered that it was 3,180 lbs. OVER the truck GCWR. Nothing bent, nothing broke, nobody was injured or killed, and the truck handled the Continental Divide, Snoqualmie Pass, and Donner Pass with no trouble.
When I register my "new" '01 Dodge 1500 QC short box, I will pay for 8000 GVW. Actually, I don't have much choice, since the GVWR is 6600 lbs. So, 8000 it will be!
The truck will be LEGAL, IMO that's what is most important!

EDIT: If you want to get even more confused, look up the axle manufacturer's specifications. You will probably find that the axle manufacturer says the axle can carry much more than the truck manufacturer says it can. Yep, the TRUCK is the limiting factor, NOT the axle!

You sure?

I can register my truck for any weight I want and will be charged accordingly but that doesn't make me legal if I exceed the placarded GVWR.

In montana, washington, oregon to name a few US states, one can do just as mowermech mentioned. I can license, pay for etc, an amount greater than my door tag, get pulled over by an leo, weighed, and still not get an overwt ticket for being 150% over my door sticker, along with 1200 over my paid for license. I was told to up the gcvwr from 26K to 28K with in 10 days, and keep until my next paid for renewal, I could then reduce the paid for gvw down to 26K.

I've yet to have an issue being weight over my door placard number.

Marty

[mowermech]

wilber1 wrote:

mowermech wrote:
Well, y'know, I really don't worry about all those numbers.
When I had a '94 Dodge 3500 dually, I registered it for 14,000 GVW. I simply didn't think I could ever exceed that, and I didn't. However, I eventually DID get around to weighing the rig, and discovered that it was 3,180 lbs. OVER the truck GCWR. Nothing bent, nothing broke, nobody was injured or killed, and the truck handled the Continental Divide, Snoqualmie Pass, and Donner Pass with no trouble.
When I register my "new" '01 Dodge 1500 QC short box, I will pay for 8000 GVW. Actually, I don't have much choice, since the GVWR is 6600 lbs. So, 8000 it will be!
The truck will be LEGAL, IMO that's what is most important!

EDIT: If you want to get even more confused, look up the axle manufacturer's specifications. You will probably find that the axle manufacturer says the axle can carry much more than the truck manufacturer says it can. Yep, the TRUCK is the limiting factor, NOT the axle!

You sure?

I can register my truck for any weight I want and will be charged accordingly but that doesn't make me legal if I exceed the placarded GVWR.

Maybe so, but you live in British Columbia, and I live in Montana. Perhaps there the weight placard is considered enforceable by law enforcement personnel, but here it is not.
In fact, since the placarded weights on my truck are with P rated tires, and the truck has LT tires, the placard no longer applies anyway! Changing the tires changes all the weights! Even if it didn't, the registered GVW is the legal limit.

[wilber1]

mowermech wrote:
Well, y'know, I really don't worry about all those numbers.
When I had a '94 Dodge 3500 dually, I registered it for 14,000 GVW. I simply didn't think I could ever exceed that, and I didn't. However, I eventually DID get around to weighing the rig, and discovered that it was 3,180 lbs. OVER the truck GCWR. Nothing bent, nothing broke, nobody was injured or killed, and the truck handled the Continental Divide, Snoqualmie Pass, and Donner Pass with no trouble.
When I register my "new" '01 Dodge 1500 QC short box, I will pay for 8000 GVW. Actually, I don't have much choice, since the GVWR is 6600 lbs. So, 8000 it will be!
The truck will be LEGAL, IMO that's what is most important!

EDIT: If you want to get even more confused, look up the axle manufacturer's specifications. You will probably find that the axle manufacturer says the axle can carry much more than the truck manufacturer says it can. Yep, the TRUCK is the limiting factor, NOT the axle!

You sure?

I can register my truck for any weight I want and will be charged accordingly but that doesn't make me legal if I exceed the placarded GVWR.

[wilber1]

TomG2 wrote:

sch911 wrote:
That's allot of information you've provided. As an OEM truck engineer I am involved in tow capability testing. You've made a few assumptions which I'm not sure I agree with all of your assessments. Now I cannot speak to the documentation, including what's on the various web sites as it's usually heavily adjusted by the marketing and legal teams.

When people ask me about these things I like to keep things simple:

Tow Ratings are published for marketing purposes ONLY. There are too many variables for the actual tow capacity to be advertised for every combination of vehicle.

Actual payload and towing capacities are easy to calculate.

GVWR - Actual_Truck_Weight = Payload available
GCWR - Actual_Truck_Weight = Trailer tow capacity

Yes, you need to weigh your truck! They are all different.
Yes, you also need to stay under the front and rear axle ratings too.

Bring on the weight police... 🙂

Hey, a real "expert". Hope he sticks around.

It really is that simple.

[LarryJM]

sch911 wrote:

LarryJM wrote:
I won't argue the point except to say I think a reasonable approach is to use the rule of thumb 80% of your GCVWR for towing these "BRICKS"

There is no 80% rule. You can run right up to the maximum ratings. Believe me we test them well beyond those loads with more than TT/5er frontal areas, and at ambient temperatures well beyond normal.

Remember I said RULE OF THUMB and not RULE. Many vehicles specify a 60sq ft frontal area and these 8'6" wide by 10 to 13' high "BRICKS" as I call them exceed that and this is the basis of my "REASONABLE APPROACH". If you can provide factual documentation of the manufacturers using real world profile trailers like we discuss here please do.

Thus I will stick with the information and opinions I posted previously and you simply stating something different doesn't change anything IMO, but good try.

Larry