Ram 2500 Gearing

[camp-n-family]

Just returned from a 3400km trip which took us through some pretty good hilly areas around the Finger Lakes of New York. I tow with the combo in my signature. Trailer weighs 7600lbs loaded.

Overall the truck towed ok but there were a couple of hills where it really struggled. It is the smaller 5.7 Hemi engine but I never encountered this problem with my old similarly powered Tundra. The Tundra pulled the TT fine which is why I went with the Hemi instead of the diesel. (6.4 was impossible to find at the time of purchase) I'm wondering if there is a problem or if it's just the tall 2nd gear.

On 2 seperate occasions we had to start a climb of a fairly steep, long hill from a stop. The truck would pull hard and accelerate quickly in 1st up to around 5500rpm and then shift into 2nd. That's when it would struggle. The Tundra would continue to pull hard and accelerate, then shift into 3rd etc. The Ram just died and couldn't even hold speed. The shift into 2nd would drop the RPMs right down to 2500, out of the power band and it would bog down. Speed would keep decreasing but it wouldn't shift back to first. There was no way to get it into the higher RPMs of 2nd gear where the power is. I had to drop it into 1st and was stuck holding it at 5000rpm (~25mph) to climb the hill. The drop in RPM between 1st and 2nd is too great.

Is it normal for this truck and what others have experienced? I expected better. It was a fairly steep grade each time but only pulling 7600lbs of its rated 13,500lbs. The Ram does weigh 800lbs more than the Tundra did and has 4.10 vs 4.30 rear gearing but I still would have thought it could accelerate uphill, or at least hold speed.

[mtofell1]

2014 2500 4X4 with 3.73 hauling an 8500# TT and what you describe is totally normal for me. Yes, the 1-2 gap in this truck SUCKS. It's really the only thing I have a problem with in an otherwise great machine.

The 4.10 would be better but I don't think it's quite as drastic as you'd think. Guys with the taller ratio still complain about the 1-2 gap. I came from a diesel and the lack of low end power is sorely missed. But, for how little I tow it's not a huge deal for me. I just wind it out hard in 1st and shift manually. There is just the perfect storm of a hill that sucks. I can rev it in 1st up to 40-45 or let it go to second and lug. The worst needed speed seems to be around 45. Once I get to 55 I've got plenty of power. With 4.10s that sweet spot probably kicks in closer to 50.

[camp-n-family]

Some new info.... I stopped at the dealer and explained the situation. After some digging we found that the truck only has a 3.73 rear gear. I asked this when purchasing and was told 4.10. Should've checked the build sheet personally and not trusted the salesman.

This may explain some sluggishness pulling but does not justify what I experienced. They are going to scan for codes (no dash lights occured)and reflash the computer next week. I won't have a chance to tow any steep hills again this summer though.

To clarify the occurance, each time the hill was started from a stopped position, always seemed to be red traffic light at the bottom of hills. If I was at speed when starting other hills it would pull ok. Lose a little speed but it would downshift with throttle and hold or accelerate.

To answer others, I use premium grade fuel when towing and the air filter is clean. Wondering about the fuel filter though. I have noticed some hesitation under harder acceleration (non towing). Acceleration isn't smooth and linear feeling, it surges in power.

The Tundra had a drop-in k&n filter but no engine mods. It had a 3-1 suspension lift, air bags and 305/55r20 E rated A/T tires.

[rsh_757]

camp-n-family wrote:
Just returned from a 3400km trip which took us through some pretty good hilly areas around the Finger Lakes of New York. I tow with the combo in my signature. Trailer weighs 7600lbs loaded.

Overall the truck towed ok but there were a couple of hills where it really struggled. It is the smaller 5.7 Hemi engine but I never encountered this problem with my old similarly powered Tundra. The Tundra pulled the TT fine which is why I went with the Hemi instead of the diesel. (6.4 was impossible to find at the time of purchase) I'm wondering if there is a problem or if it's just the tall 2nd gear.

On 2 seperate occasions we had to start a climb of a fairly steep, long hill from a stop. The truck would pull hard and accelerate quickly in 1st up to around 5500rpm and then shift into 2nd. That's when it would struggle. The Tundra would continue to pull hard and accelerate, then shift into 3rd etc. The Ram just died and couldn't even hold speed. The shift into 2nd would drop the RPMs right down to 2500, out of the power band and it would bog down. Speed would keep decreasing but it wouldn't shift back to first. There was no way to get it into the higher RPMs of 2nd gear where the power is. I had to drop it into 1st and was stuck holding it at 5000rpm (~25mph) to climb the hill. The drop in RPM between 1st and 2nd is too great.

Is it normal for this truck and what others have experienced? I expected better. It was a fairly steep grade each time but only pulling 7600lbs of its rated 13,500lbs. The Ram does weigh 800lbs more than the Tundra did and has 4.10 vs 4.30 rear gearing but I still would have thought it could accelerate uphill, or at least hold speed.

Wow, that is really shocking. I have owned a diesel Dodge forever and questioned my neighbor for buying the gasser 2500 HD with 4.10's. It seemed like a waste to go gas if one was going to change the ride that much. It didn't get the best mileage, but it felt like it had more than enough yank for his 8k TT. Backed it up a long driveway with little effort too.

It might be like the wife's 2008 Armada. That thing has some weird gearing setup with its tow package and it feels like it can tow the world even though it is a halfer. It isn't the most powerful thing, but towing stuff is right in the wheelhouse.

[silverfz]

I will watching this as I am in the same path. going from my 5.7 tundra to a 2500 Ram. My Camper dry is 6333 lbs and packed varies from 7000 to 7200 lb depending on how long of a trip we are going.

Even up grades I never seen the tundra jump real high rpms .

Did you have any mods on the tundra , I have a full flowmaster dual exhaust with headers which woke up the tundra . The engine just revs up and pulls . ofcourse its like 100 plus lbs weight lighter.

did you have some performance mods on the tundra.

[bguy]

Are you lifting off when it shifts to 2nd. I don't know what hill you're on but my 1500 w 3.55 never needs first and my tt is just under 7500.
Are you using mid grade fuel and check your air filter.

[APT]

Based on first and second gear ratios, 5500rpm in first gear should be about 3100rpm in 2nd gear in the Ram. The Tundra would be 100rpm higher, which is not that significant. The transmission ratios of the Tundra put the 4.30 axle close to Ford/GM with 3.73. Tundra combo is a little better/shorter than the Rams 66RFE and 4.10. Anyway, I am surprised the 5.7L @ 3000rpm could not accelerate at that speed. It does have similar power and gearing to the Tundra. It may weigh slightly more, say 500-800 pounds.

[ShinerBock]

ib516 wrote:
Mine will do 40 mph in 1st gear with stock tires and 4.10 axles at 5000 RPM+. I think something is off with your figures.

VIDEO

According to the math, with 4.10 gears, a 32.2 inch tire, and a 3.23 transmission ratio your truck should be at 5,528 rpm at 40 mph IF the torque converter is locked. However the 66RFE does not lock the torque converter in first gear so the rpms will vary slightly depending on the situation.

[camp-n-family]

Can you check the rear end to ensure it is in fact the 4.10? Seems odd that it couldn't pull that unless something was off or you're a lot heavier that you think.

Pretty sure they are 4.10 but going to the dealer again to verify. The trailer was scaled at 7600lbs (8k GVWR)

Mine does that too but I have 3.73 gears. I would think 4.10 would get it done. What size tires are you running?

Stock tires. Beginning to think I was quoted the wrong axle ratio.

Is it the same trailer for both the Tundra and the RAM?

If you were pulling a 6500lb trailer with the Tundra and a 10,000lb trailer with the RAM, it's not a fair comparison.

The HP output of the two engines is comparable, but the RAM is heavier, geared differently in the transmission, and has a shorter axle ratio. What you bought was mostly the additional payload capacity and suspension rigidity in the RAM.

Exact same trailer and weight. The only difference, as mentioned, is the Ram is about 800lbs heavier curb weight and the rear axle ratio.

You're exactly correct, I bought the Ram for the extra payload and heavier suspension with the expectation of a better towing experience. What I didn't expect was that I was happier towing with the Tundra.

Mine will do 40 mph in 1st gear with stock tires and 4.10 axles at 5000 RPM+. I think something is off with your figures.

Numbers might be off a bit, I wasn't concentrating on the Dash. It would accelerate to near 40mph in 1st around 5500rpm but drop to 25mph in 2nd around 2500rpm. It would hold there but was bogged down and would not accelerate. 1st gear at 5k was probably closer to 30-35mph.

[ib516]

Mine will do 40 mph in 1st gear with stock tires and 4.10 axles at 5000 RPM+. I think something is off with your figures.

VIDEO

[MFL]

I remember reading about the Ram 6-speed having a little too much gap between the lower gears. I think the problem lies here, rather than having to do with the rear end gearing, at least to a point. You should look at a chart, showing your transmission ratio in each gear 1-6.

The 5.7 is a proven engine, with lots of power, and very close to the ability of the other late model gas engines.

I wish my Ford had the same transmission ratio in reverse, as it has in first. I guess they build them to fit the average, rather than any one persons situation.

Jerry

[mkirsch]

Is it the same trailer for both the Tundra and the RAM?

If you were pulling a 6500lb trailer with the Tundra and a 10,000lb trailer with the RAM, it's not a fair comparison.

The HP output of the two engines is comparable, but the RAM is heavier, geared differently in the transmission, and has a shorter axle ratio. What you bought was mostly the additional payload capacity and suspension rigidity in the RAM.

[kyle86]

Mine does that too but I have 3.73 gears. I would think 4.10 would get it done. What size tires are you running?

[azwildcat99]

Can you check the rear end to ensure it is in fact the 4.10? Seems odd that it couldn't pull that unless something was off or you're a lot heavier that you think.

[camp-n-family]

Did you stand on it?
Did you try manually selecting 2nd?

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When it shifted out of first and started slowing I gave more and more throttle trying to get it to accelerate or at least hold speed. Once it was floored it finally dropped back to 1st but was over 5k RPM. It would accelerate quickly then, so it wasn't long before it dropped back into 2nd which started the same problem again.

When I manually shifted the gear selector it showed that it was in 2nd. I manually shifted it to hold first gear where it had plenty of power to pull and accelerate but I was stuck holding that gear at 25mph and 5k+ rpm to the top of the hill.