Seeking Advice -- Purchase of Older 3/4 Ton Tow Vehicle

[crcr]

I posted a while back seeking info and advice about buying a used tow vehicle. Thanks to all who responded, I have narrowed my target truck parameters down and have a few questions.

I want to buy a 3/4 ton 4WD crew cab truck with a short bed. These are the trucks I am considering:
Ford F250 V10
Chevy/GMC 2500 or 2500 HD, 6.0 V8

What years do these engines appear in these trucks, and any cautions or tips on what to look for and/or what to avoid? Should I expect that the Ford V10 would get worse mileage than the Chevy 6.0, or about the same? I owned a Ford van with the V10 once and loved the engine, but it was very thirsty.

I am also thinking of considering the Ford 7.3 diesel, or an older Dodge 5.9 diesel. But I need some advice. The vehicle will mainly be used for tow duty in the summer, towing from the hot hot southern desert in AZ to the AZ high country, plus runs to Home Depot and other errands occasionally throughout the year. The vehicle will probably only get 3,000 or 4,000, maybe occasionally near to 5,000 miles max per year, though I will be sure and exercise it regularly. Question: Is this too few miles per year to be practical from a maintenance point of view for the 7.3 Ford or the 5.9 Dodge Ram? Miles in the winter would be within the city not towing.

My budget range is $8,000 to $12,500. I have occasionally seen 7.3 Fords in that range, but would it even be possible to find a Ram 5.9 in decent running condition in that price range?

Thanks in advance for any info and tips!

[kw_00]

The GM 6.0 has been good since it's introduction, not many issues known. If you get the 4 speed version try to get the 4:10 gear set. If newer and 6 speeds then 3:73 is fine. I pull in 5th OD in Florida, and when I hit a hill it will lose some speed but stay in gear in florida. When outside florida and larger hills I will drop it to 4 th gear, run 3100rpm and keep 65 mph easy. Overall the only issues I have had were broken exhaust studs, water pump at 150k and CPK sensor on my 02. Had the tranny rebuilt in the 02 but only because the TQ converter went south. Overall the 6.0 with the 4l 80e(4 speed) or the newer 6.0 and 6 speed in late 07 and up are excellent trucks. They are proven workhorses and will last. I have had both diesel and gas, so it's really up to what u like. For me, well I only tow 5 times are year or so.. Because of this and the simplicity of gas I chose to stick with a gas truck. I can work on my own truck which is important because I really can't afford to always pay another to do so. With that being said, the 6.0 is one of the easier engines in my opinion to work on. Chevy gives you plenty of room engine bay wise to get the job done. Despite what you may be told, it's cheaper to work on a gas engine. Parts are not all that expensive either. When we had the 02 duramax... Man that thing was a tow beast but when the head gasket went and 2 injectors said goodby... Well got traded in.... If not then about 4-5 g would have fixed it.... I could buy a brand new crate gm 6.0 for less then that...but if u look at diesel then the older cummins, or ford 7.3 is good. The duramax is still my favorite overall when it comes to diesel. The problem is that the older diesels usually have high miles.... Then you hear....well she will go 500k, however everything this else on the truck goes south and it's just one big money pit from then on. If your friend had the 06 and u know the truck well and u trust him, then that may be the way to go in my opinion. Good low miles and good service should give you many years of great service.

[Wes_Tausend]

crcr wrote:

brooks379 wrote:
They had trouble with trucks with auto transmission in the F250 and F350 and I always heard it was from not changing the ATF regularly. I have a 2002 F350 7.3 4x4 CC auto trans. I bought brand new and it has been a GREAT truck...never has been back inside a Ford shop since I bought it. 278,000 miles on it, most all towing.

Thanks! What are the years of F250 and F350 where the 7.3 was offered?

I think, for your budget, you would be most interested in 1999 through early 2003 on the Ford 7.3L diesel. I have owned, for a short time, a 2000 crew cab F-250 with the diesel. Some fairly low mileage 7.3 units, especially 2 wheel-drive, sold for as low as $8k. I bought more expensive 4x4 because I may eventually sell our only other winter 4x4 truck, a gasser 2000 Excursion V-10, which is basically the same 3/4 ton chassis.

The 7.3L diesel (over the V-10) improves empty fuel economy by about 3-4 mpg, and about the same towing. Although the diesel has less HP, about 235 versus 310 for the 6.8L V-10, it runs down the highway right in the sweet torque spot, about 1800-2000 rpm, and does not shift down as often out of overdrive as the V-10. Other than the steepest of hills, 200 HP is already overkill, as level, windless cruise only takes about 100 towing. Newer high HP diesels are factory drag-racers, rather impractical. Of course, who doesn't love hotrods?

The V-10 has to shift down out of overdrive frequently because it runs well under torque peak rpm at highway speeds. As soon as a medium hill is encountered, the engine bogs and it shifts. This is one reason fuel economy suffers more on the V-10. The downshift doesn't hurt the engine, but it sucks more fuel at high rpm. The other reason the diesel makes better fuel economy than gas is that diesel fuel contains more heat energy per gallon of course.

The F-250 Super Duty years I mentioned have a 4 speed auto tranny. They are quite reliable, but the diesel can wreck the torque converter if souped up. Ford calls for fluid changes at 30k intervals and, for a pre-owned purchase, I would look for service records if possible. If the truck was not used for heavy towing I wouldn't worry about double, or triple, service intervals. The max torque on the two engines is similar, with the diesel a little more, and at much lower rpm.

My preferred buy was a specific ultra reliable 1995 2wd Dodge Cummins with a manual tranny. The autos did have a bad reputation on these, but even they are marginally ok if not abused. I missed the buy from my buddy because I didn't realise he was going to sell. As he proudly showed me his newer, snow-loving GM 4x4, I was consequently distracted by my remorse at having missed the very low mileage Cummins buy. It went for $8k. The reason I was so interested in it was that they are the king of mpgs, towing at 14-15 and running empty at 20+. I would have lived with a small standard cab, manual tranny and 2wd for that. At least it had an 8 foot box.

Concerning 4x4, we live in snow country and our preferred daily transportation is a 2007 Toyota Prius which does not do well in deep snow. It high centers and the confounded, no-spin, always-on traction control stops it dead in it's little tracks. Otherwise expect to average 40+ mpg city/highway and, during our model year, was thee most reliable car in the world per Consumer Reports.

Good luck!

Wes
...

[rhagfo]

crcr wrote:

mowermech wrote:
"Go with a gas engine and avoid diesel at all costs. It costs more to repair a diesel engine than to completely replace a gas engine in a truck. It is also more difficult to find stations that pump diesel on the highway if you venture off the interstates."

I must disagree completely, based purely on personal experience. Many years ago I bought a 1995 Dodge Ram 3500 CTD that had 210,000 miles on it. We were full-timers at the time, towing a 32 foot triple slide fifth wheel and using the truck for our daily driver. The one time I weighed the rig, the total weight was 21,180 lbs.
Then, about 10 years ago, we settled down and got a couple horses. The truck was used mostly for hauling hay after that. I used to put 35 bales, at 65 to 75 pounds each, on the truck, and 100 bales on a flatbed trailer behind.
Over the years, I had to replace the alternator (twice), the water pump, and the serpentine belt.
I never had a problem finding diesel fuel on any state 2 lane highway in Montana, Washington, or California. In actuality, finding a station that did NOT have diesel fuel was more of a problem!
My son has the truck now. He converted it from 4.1 rear end ratio to 3.54, and is very happy with it. I think it is approaching 300K miles now, and still going strong.
while it may be true that a diesel is more expensive to repair or replace, it is also true that if it is properly taken care of, you will likely never have to repair or replace it. I didn't, and I can't really say that I took "PROPER" care of it!
If I were to look for a vehicle for heavy towing, it would certainly be a Dodge Ram CTD, 2003 to 2006, 3/4 ton or single wheel one ton. I simply would not consider any other truck!
But, at the moment and for the foreseeable future, the truck in my sig. is all I need.

Thanks! Is there some reason to avoid the Dodge Ram 5.9 pre-2003?

Not at all, just be sure it has a good Lift Pump (fuel Pump) that put out about 15 psi at all times.
I have had my 2001 5.9 for over three years, currently 267,000 miles we pull a 32' 11,000# 5er up and down the coastal range in Oregon.
Just ran up to Northern Washington to pick up a two horse slant goose neck horse trailer for my daughter. It has a dry weight listed as 5,200# I needed to keep looking to see if it was still back there.

The size trailer you are looking doesn't need a diesel to tow, gas will work just fine, you just need to stop more often for fuel. I get about 14 to 15 city, over 19 @ 65 on the highway, and 11 to 12 pulling the 11,000# 5er to the coast.

[maxwell11]

I have been very well pleased with my dodge diesel truck 2005 model.

it pulls my 6500# bumper pull trailer fine, it has tow/haul which changes the shift points of the transmission. This last summer we pulled out trailer up into the Smokey mountains, the old dodge pulled up the mountains fine and came down out of the mountains fine, no problems.

gets very good mpg when driving around town and good mpg pulling the trailer.
it is old enough, it does not have many of the newer epa modifications.
no dep, etc:

so far, it has been a good truck, it has 73K miles, I have completed the normal maintenance items. the only thing that cost more is the oil change, 12 qts of shell rotella 15w40 oil and Baldwin oil and fuel filters.

if you find one that was well cared for I do not think you could go wrong.

the only problem, no matter what brand you chose, in your price range, the trucks you are going to find may have much higher miles and many have been used hard and put up wet.

so take the truck you chose to a trusted mechanic and pay him to check it out for you, rather than have to pay him to put it back together after you purchase.

take your time and drive at least three or more trucks before you buy.

[crcr]

brooks379 wrote:
They had trouble with trucks with auto transmission in the F250 and F350 and I always heard it was from not changing the ATF regularly. I have a 2002 F350 7.3 4x4 CC auto trans. I bought brand new and it has been a GREAT truck...never has been back inside a Ford shop since I bought it. 278,000 miles on it, most all towing.

Thanks! What are the years of F250 and F350 where the 7.3 was offered?

[crcr]

mowermech wrote:
"Go with a gas engine and avoid diesel at all costs. It costs more to repair a diesel engine than to completely replace a gas engine in a truck. It is also more difficult to find stations that pump diesel on the highway if you venture off the interstates."

I must disagree completely, based purely on personal experience. Many years ago I bought a 1995 Dodge Ram 3500 CTD that had 210,000 miles on it. We were full-timers at the time, towing a 32 foot triple slide fifth wheel and using the truck for our daily driver. The one time I weighed the rig, the total weight was 21,180 lbs.
Then, about 10 years ago, we settled down and got a couple horses. The truck was used mostly for hauling hay after that. I used to put 35 bales, at 65 to 75 pounds each, on the truck, and 100 bales on a flatbed trailer behind.
Over the years, I had to replace the alternator (twice), the water pump, and the serpentine belt.
I never had a problem finding diesel fuel on any state 2 lane highway in Montana, Washington, or California. In actuality, finding a station that did NOT have diesel fuel was more of a problem!
My son has the truck now. He converted it from 4.1 rear end ratio to 3.54, and is very happy with it. I think it is approaching 300K miles now, and still going strong.
while it may be true that a diesel is more expensive to repair or replace, it is also true that if it is properly taken care of, you will likely never have to repair or replace it. I didn't, and I can't really say that I took "PROPER" care of it!
If I were to look for a vehicle for heavy towing, it would certainly be a Dodge Ram CTD, 2003 to 2006, 3/4 ton or single wheel one ton. I simply would not consider any other truck!
But, at the moment and for the foreseeable future, the truck in my sig. is all I need.

Thanks! Is there some reason to avoid the Dodge Ram 5.9 pre-2003?

[crcr]

kw/00 wrote:
I have good luck with my GM 6.0 trucks. First was an 02, current 09 with the 6 speed. Both have been reliable and have done everything I needed them to do.

Thanks. I am very interested in that truck. I have a buddy that has an 06 2500HD with well over 200K on it. He doesn't tow, but he uses it for business and carries heavy loads with it day in and day out, and it has served him well.

Any tips on any years to avoid, and/or any years that the manufacturer made significant improvements? Are the cooling systems good? I tow in very very hot weather in the summer.

[crcr]

Redsky wrote:
Go with a gas engine and avoid diesel at all costs. It costs more to repair a diesel engine than to completely replace a gas engine in a truck. It is also more difficult to find stations that pump diesel on the highway if you venture off the interstates.

In terms of reliability I would go with a Toyota Tundra and know I had the most reliable truck I could buy. Choosing between Ford and GM I would check the Consumer Reports stats on repairs by type by model year.
A truck may have had a lot of problems with electrics or the cooling system or transmission and these are often expensive to diagnose and repair. For towing the reliability of the transmission and the cooling system are important.

I would also want a 4.10 rear end gearing and a 5 or 6 speed transmission. The extra speeds are overdrive gears which don't do much when towing but do improve fuel economy when you are not.

Thanks -- I like and have owned several Toyotas, but I know the payloads of the Tundra Crew Cab 4x4 and it won't have enough payload for my needs. That's why I plan to buy a 3/4 ton. Not to mention, I couldn't buy the full size Tundra crew cab 4x4 5.7L in the current generation from 2007 on in my budget range of below $12,500.

[mowermech]

"Go with a gas engine and avoid diesel at all costs. It costs more to repair a diesel engine than to completely replace a gas engine in a truck. It is also more difficult to find stations that pump diesel on the highway if you venture off the interstates."

I must disagree completely, based purely on personal experience. Many years ago I bought a 1995 Dodge Ram 3500 CTD that had 210,000 miles on it. We were full-timers at the time, towing a 32 foot triple slide fifth wheel and using the truck for our daily driver. The one time I weighed the rig, the total weight was 21,180 lbs.
Then, about 10 years ago, we settled down and got a couple horses. The truck was used mostly for hauling hay after that. I used to put 35 bales, at 65 to 75 pounds each, on the truck, and 100 bales on a flatbed trailer behind.
Over the years, I had to replace the alternator (twice), the water pump, and the serpentine belt.
I never had a problem finding diesel fuel on any state 2 lane highway in Montana, Washington, or California. In actuality, finding a station that did NOT have diesel fuel was more of a problem!
My son has the truck now. He converted it from 4.1 rear end ratio to 3.54, and is very happy with it. I think it is approaching 300K miles now, and still going strong.
while it may be true that a diesel is more expensive to repair or replace, it is also true that if it is properly taken care of, you will likely never have to repair or replace it. I didn't, and I can't really say that I took "PROPER" care of it!
If I were to look for a vehicle for heavy towing, it would certainly be a Dodge Ram CTD, 2003 to 2006, 3/4 ton or single wheel one ton. I simply would not consider any other truck!
But, at the moment and for the foreseeable future, the truck in my sig. is all I need.

[kw_00]

I have good luck with my GM 6.0 trucks. First was an 02, current 09 with the 6 speed. Both have been reliable and have done everything I needed them to do.

[Redsky]

Go with a gas engine and avoid diesel at all costs. It costs more to repair a diesel engine than to completely replace a gas engine in a truck. It is also more difficult to find stations that pump diesel on the highway if you venture off the interstates.

In terms of reliability I would go with a Toyota Tundra and know I had the most reliable truck I could buy. Choosing between Ford and GM I would check the Consumer Reports stats on repairs by type by model year.
A truck may have had a lot of problems with electrics or the cooling system or transmission and these are often expensive to diagnose and repair. For towing the reliability of the transmission and the cooling system are important.

I would also want a 4.10 rear end gearing and a 5 or 6 speed transmission. The extra speeds are overdrive gears which don't do much when towing but do improve fuel economy when you are not.

[brooks379]

They had trouble with trucks with auto transmission in the F250 and F350 and I always heard it was from not changing the ATF regularly. I have a 2002 F350 7.3 4x4 CC auto trans. I bought brand new and it has been a GREAT truck...never has been back inside a Ford shop since I bought it. 278,000 miles on it, most all towing.

[crcr]

Dandy Dan wrote:
If you are looking at these, the Ford 7.3 with standard tranny was almost bullet proof. The Chevy with the 8.1 will pass most things towing except possibly a gas station.Nice that it has an Allison Trans. The V-10 has been used in several motorhomes. Again the only thing may be gas mileage. I am towing a 5er with a 2005 Dodge Hemi. Have towed with this between 25-30000 miles and so far so good. Good Luck in your decision and Happy Camping.

Thanks. What is the reputation of the 7.3 automatic trans?

[crcr]

The travel trailer I think we will be getting weighs 6000 lbs dry and has a GVWR of 7500 lbs, so I expect to be well under 7500 lbs. loaded up. Should the Dodge Hemi be an option on my list for that weight?

[Dandy_Dan]

If you are looking at these, the Ford 7.3 with standard tranny was almost bullet proof. The Chevy with the 8.1 will pass most things towing except possibly a gas station.Nice that it has an Allison Trans. The V-10 has been used in several motorhomes. Again the only thing may be gas mileage. I am towing a 5er with a 2005 Dodge Hemi. Have towed with this between 25-30000 miles and so far so good. Good Luck in your decision and Happy Camping.