Transmission Service?

[oldcat1]

I have a 2013 GMC Sierra 2500HD 2WD with 3.73 rear. 32K miles with 20K of that towing a 6K (loaded) TT. I carefully monitor trans temps when towing and it runs in the 145 to 170 degree range almost all the time. I tow at 60 MPH in tow/haul with 6th gear locked out. It has only seen 200 degrees a handful of times (long grade on hot day).

I get free oil changes at the dealer, and they are telling me it's time to have the trans fluid and filter changed. My owners manual says not until 97K (45K with severe duty). I plan on keeping the truck a long time, but this seems like overkill. What do you think?

[hotpepperkid]

Some manufactures well at least mind did have a different schedule for normal and severe duty (define severe duty). I do trans, coolent, both diffs, xfer case every two years wheather it needs it or not. In two years I get aprox 16,000 miles of towing and about 10,000 not towing

[drsteve]

JALLEN4 wrote:

drsteve wrote:

mkirsch wrote:
So again, since the manufacturer of the car is either clueless or has an ulterior motive depending on who you ask, how do you come up with the intervals?

If you are still changing your engine oil on the old 3000 mile schedule, don't forget, that was the MANUFACTURER RECOMMENDED interval. So now you're a hypocrite, or something has changed in the intentions/behaviors of car manufacturers.

This forum is full of people who are convinced that the manufacturers who design these things either know nothing about them, or they are liars who want you to wear out your equipment early and/or spend extra cash on unneeded service.

I don't think anybody is saying the engineers who design the product don't know anything about the product.

Then you don't read enough posts here.

Some of them are unbelievably talented and extremely knowledgeable. Those of us though that know how the business operates understand that compromises are made in the process.

Engineers, left to their own devices, can easily design a 500,000 mile life expectancy vehicle. The reality is that it would not sell in quantity because of affordability. This is where the accounting and marketing people have their input and today's product Is built to a price point with a specific market In mind. They also must meet the competition and their pricing models. This is not suggesting a nefarious plot by the manufacturer to "kill" the car early but simply the reality of manufacturing any modern day product.

When it comes to designing a maintenance schedule for the product, there are again compromises. Most automotive engineers I have ever spoken to advocate a far more aggressive schedule than the one found in the typical new vehicle owner's manual. That schedule is designed for best case scenario and is adequate for the product. It will not be focused on extending product life at any cost. Those of us who have aviation experience will easily recognize the difference between adequate maintenance and maintenance designed for a machine at 20,000 feet when the engine stops.

One can choose to decide that the dealer has only a profit motive and lies to convince the customer to spend more money on maintenance than necessary so he can make an extra twenty bucks now and then. I can though assure you that the dealer also knows more about the daily maintenance of the product in real life than the engineer who designed it and moved on to the next big thing. Being in the position of watching literally hundreds of cars being serviced daily it took very little to recognize a pattern. Those cars that were babied, oil changed twice as often, and recommended schedules exceeded...last longer with more miles and have far fewer problems long term.

Making a $50,000 plus investment in a new truck is commonplace today. Caring for it would seem to be a no brainer. The old adage is you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!

I'm very familiar with the auto industry, and what you say is true. But again, this place is full of folks who fervently believe otherwise.

[4x4ord]

Just drive it one more year and trade it in.

[JALLEN4]

drsteve wrote:

mkirsch wrote:
So again, since the manufacturer of the car is either clueless or has an ulterior motive depending on who you ask, how do you come up with the intervals?

If you are still changing your engine oil on the old 3000 mile schedule, don't forget, that was the MANUFACTURER RECOMMENDED interval. So now you're a hypocrite, or something has changed in the intentions/behaviors of car manufacturers.

This forum is full of people who are convinced that the manufacturers who design these things either know nothing about them, or they are liars who want you to wear out your equipment early and/or spend extra cash on unneeded service.

I don't think anybody is saying the engineers who design the product don't know anything about the product. Some of them are unbelievably talented and extremely knowledgeable. Those of us though that know how the business operates understand that compromises are made in the process.

Engineers, left to their own devices, can easily design a 500,000 mile life expectancy vehicle. The reality is that it would not sell in quantity because of affordability. This is where the accounting and marketing people have their input and today's product Is built to a price point with a specific market In mind. They also must meet the competition and their pricing models. This is not suggesting a nefarious plot by the manufacturer to "kill" the car early but simply the reality of manufacturing any modern day product.

When it comes to designing a maintenance schedule for the product, there are again compromises. Most automotive engineers I have ever spoken to advocate a far more aggressive schedule than the one found in the typical new vehicle owner's manual. That schedule is designed for best case scenario and is adequate for the product. It will not be focused on extending product life at any cost. Those of us who have aviation experience will easily recognize the difference between adequate maintenance and maintenance designed for a machine at 20,000 feet when the engine stops.

One can choose to decide that the dealer has only a profit motive and lies to convince the customer to spend more money on maintenance than necessary so he can make an extra twenty bucks now and then. I can though assure you that the dealer also knows more about the daily maintenance of the product in real life than the engineer who designed it and moved on to the next big thing. Being in the position of watching literally hundreds of cars being serviced daily it took very little to recognize a pattern. Those cars that were babied, oil changed twice as often, and recommended schedules exceeded...last longer with more miles and have far fewer problems long term.

Making a $50,000 plus investment in a new truck is commonplace today. Caring for it would seem to be a no brainer. The old adage is you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!

[FishOnOne]

dodge guy wrote:
And then there are those of us that maintain their vehicles better than what the manuf. intended.

Hey I changed out my radiator fluid Sunday at 137k miles. Replaced with DI water and Motorcraft Orange coolant.

I do have to resist the urge to change the oil early though. :B

[dodge_guy]

And then there are those of us that maintain their vehicles better than what the manuf. intended.

[drsteve]

mkirsch wrote:
So again, since the manufacturer of the car is either clueless or has an ulterior motive depending on who you ask, how do you come up with the intervals?

If you are still changing your engine oil on the old 3000 mile schedule, don't forget, that was the MANUFACTURER RECOMMENDED interval. So now you're a hypocrite, or something has changed in the intentions/behaviors of car manufacturers.

This forum is full of people who are convinced that the manufacturers who design these things either know nothing about them, or they are liars who want you to wear out your equipment early and/or spend extra cash on unneeded service.

[Grit_dog]

Nother thread down the drain. Nuuked!

[mkirsch]

So again, since the manufacturer of the car is either clueless or has an ulterior motive depending on who you ask, how do you come up with the intervals?

If you are still changing your engine oil on the old 3000 mile schedule, don't forget, that was the MANUFACTURER RECOMMENDED interval. So now you're a hypocrite, or something has changed in the intentions/behaviors of car manufacturers.

[JALLEN4]

DavidP wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

FWIW, it's interesting that the majority of mfg either don't list, or have a very long interval between brake fluid flush. IMHO a very bad idea. brake fluid absorbs water easily, leads to brake fade and other issues. That's one area where I go with every 2 years and use DOT4+ fluids rather than the commonly recomended DOT3.

Agreed. I flush my fluid annual. I installed Speed Bleeders, makes it real easy. Brake "feel" stays like new. Amazing how brake feel degrades over time with old oxidized fluid. No doubt water retention in the fluid causes a soft pedal.

Service intervals are getting longer and longer. Car manufactures have geared intervals to cost of ownership. The lower they can make the cost of ownership number the more appealing the vehicle is to many prospective buyers. The winners are the MFG’s and those who unload vehicles early. Losers are everyone else.

YOU COULD NOT BE MORE RIGHT!!!

People who don't understand that the owners manual may just be written with an ulterior motive in mind are either really cheap or just plain stupid. A great example would be when Toyota decided oil only needed changed around 20,000 miles, installed a light to tell the consumer when to do it, and advertised low maintenance cost. Couple of years later they started popping engines at 50,000 miles like popcorn. Go look at a current Toyota owner's manual and check when an oil change is called for. Something good dealers were telling folks all along.

Of course the Service Advisor is paid to make recommendations. Last I looked, most people who show up at their jobs on a regular basis get paid. Who better than the dealer to make maintenance recommendations? They see the cars daily, fix the problems that happen, and generally know how the vehicle was maintained. The engineers who set the guidelines for maintenance at the factory, design the systems and move on to a new problem. Only when their suppositions prove wrong do they then revisit the maintenance schedule.

As someone who spent a career paying people to make service recommendations, I loved it when dumb people ignored what we were telling them. Many systems failures can only be done by the dealer and many of these folks found their way back to me when the problems started. They either paid me to fix their problem or traded for a new vehicle. This way, I made much more money than if they had listened to begin with. So, for all the naysayers who know better...go for it... keep on keeping dealer's business good!

[Old-Biscuit]

Any 'footnotes' about TIME

Some footnotes state every 3 yrs, every 5 years or every 10 years regardless of mileage

Towing places vehicle in the 'severe' duty maintenance schedule
Especially when OP states 20K of the 32K was towing miles

When towing I change tranny at 25K and adjust bands, change oil/filter & fuel filter at 5K and air cleaner when dirty
Change rear differential at 25K initial miles and the because I run a high capacity cover at 50K thereafter.

Where do I get those numbers.........right out of my pea-picking mind
My truck, my choice, my money----BUT have never had a break down due to lack of maintenance
I hate a junk whoopy vehicle that nickel/dimes you to death.

AND when it comes time to sell I get top dollar.

[jfkmk]

dodge guy wrote:
Jeez, does no one go the extra mile to maintain their vehicle? Your vehicle falls under the severe duty service. On my Excursion I change the trans fluid every 25k miles. It’s cheap insurance.

I would even say it’s time for you to replace and flush the brake fluid too! Also, you may want to consder replaceing the rear diff fluid at 50k miles.

It’s amazing to me how people say “what does the owners manual say” when it comes to maint. but when it comes to tow ratings that goes out the window and people say “use 80% of the max”! Well which is it. If the manuf knows best then why not tow the max weight?

Just because the manuf gives a schedule of service does not mean you can’t do it earlier!

I am a firm believer in preventive maintenance. You'll always find me on the side for annual bearing repacking with brake adjustments. I always change fluids early and don't trust the dealer or others to do the work.

However, he has a 2500, tows a 6000# trailer at 60 mph. That is not severe service by any stretch of the imagine and replacing the trans fluid now is simply a money maker for the dealer.

[ktmrfs]

gmcsmoke wrote:
while I agree excessive fluid changes are not necessary, I'm becoming a firm believer in an initial change at 5k then half the recommended schedule.

for example: front and rear diff, transfer case for a gm HD truck is 100k, I changed initially at 5k and the rear was black and a lot of shavings. changed at 50k, dark brown, changed again at 90k dark brown.

I could go 100k on the diff's but based on what comes out of my vehicle I wouldn't want to.

I should add, the most often over looked fluid is brake fluid, I routinely flush that every 50k, or 3 years.

I agree on brake fluid. I never go more than 2 years between a full flush pressure bleed with DOT4+ fluid. Especially on my trucks where I tow heavy. Last thing one wants is brake fade from boiling fluid.

GM back in 04, specified changing the fluid in the eaton autolocker rear at 5K miles, after rear diff break in. Somewhere between 04 and 2015.5 that went away. But I did that anyway on the eaton autolocker in my 2015.5 Denali 2500.

[gmcsmoke]

while I agree excessive fluid changes are not necessary, I'm becoming a firm believer in an initial change at 5k then half the recommended schedule.

for example: front and rear diff, transfer case for a gm HD truck is 100k, I changed initially at 5k and the rear was black and a lot of shavings. changed at 50k, dark brown, changed again at 90k dark brown.

I could go 100k on the diff's but based on what comes out of my vehicle I wouldn't want to.

I should add, the most often over looked fluid is brake fluid, I routinely flush that every 50k, or 3 years.