Unbraked trailer, towing limitations

[tealboy]

Hey folks, I’m looking for a new tow vehicle for a rig coming in at 2700 lbs, loaded, per the scale. I decided to trade down to a more modest unibody suv like the highlander, telluride or similar with tow ratings of 5000 lbs.vs my customary Tahoe or sequoia since I tow infrequently (3-4x/year).

However, I discovered something I was unaware of, these vehicles often come with a 1000lb limit when trailers are “Unbraked”. My trailer does not have brakes, seems many in this lower weight class don’t, though some do. My state law requires brakes at 3000lbs.

This discovery caused me to to rethink the mid size suv and go back to the sequoia or a Tahoe. I was shocked to realize the big sequoia with 7500 lbs tow rating is also limited to 1000 lbs Unbraked. The Tahoe is 2000 lbs. The gm line of 1500 series pickups also 2k.

Wow. It seems the manufacturers are providing very conservative figures for Unbraked trailers due to liability so no matter what I pick outside of a 2500 series, I am out of compliance with manufactures recommendations/requirements and potentially subject to liability in an accident even though I’m within state law.

I know this group is far more informed than average people relative to towing but I see tons of smaller to mid size trailers like mine, including many boats, without brakes and suspect most are totally unknowing of these low thresholds bc the manufactures brag about high tow ratings but you need to look much deeper for the Unbraked limits .

I’m not sure what to do now. Thoughts on the subject and your awareness of these vehicle limitations?

[JIMNLIN]

OP wrote:
With these low limits in mind, it would be interesting to start paying attention to all the F150s, towing 2000”-4000 pound trailer around and I bet most of them won’t have trailer brakes. I don’t say that to say it’s right or to justify anything I just think it’s the reality of how uninformed people are given all the hype the manufacturers place around the top rated tow numbers with no Asterix to prompt people to dig deeper. The F150 for example Has a unbraked limit of 1500 lbs.

Not all F150 same year models have the same braking performance/specs.
Looking at 2022 Fleet Ford brake specs shows two different braking systems (rotor dia/rotor thickness/sweep area) on the various F150 models... which we can't tell just by looking.

And of course older year model F150 brake systems may not be as robust as newer gen models.

I'm always surprised how quick the wifes '16 1500 chevy crew cab 4wd stops my 2540 lb empty 10k car hauler without the trailers brakes plugged in

JMO but our LDT mfg's may recommend a certain limit on unbraked trailers but I sure wouldn't assume, without knowing that particular trucks brake specs, exceeding that number is a danger.

I started towing in the early '60's. Trailer brakes and especially LDT's have come a long long way in braking performance.

[Thermoguy]

Just for anyone that thinks there vehicle can't stop the trailer behind them. If you own a GM (maybe others, I have a chev so not sure of the others) if you get the dreaded steering stabilizer warning or check trailer wiring warning, the first thing you lose is your trailer brakes. The system just stops working if you get those warnings. I have driven half way across the state with that warning popping on and off towing a 12000 lb 5th wheel. Yes, my brakes had to work harder, but I stopped in aprox the same distance with or without. One can argue, larger truck, larger brakes, but I didn't have an issue stopping. I recently towed a medium sized Uhaul with my Explorer, also no brakes. It wasn't loaded too heavy, but never thought about the trailer brakes or stopping. Small trailer, small tow vehicle, no issues.

[blt2ski]

Thank you Scooby
I noted at the beginning of my comments, it may not happen often. But I do know of a few CVEO'S that like to pull over type A motor homes with Dinghy's, the dinghy vehicles have not been hooked up to use brakes, the only way to leave the side of the road is to disconnect the two units. AFTER getting a moving violation ticket, due to no brakes operating on the towed vehicle.
Does it happen often, probably not, but it can happen! Operators choice on the gamble

Marty

[JRscooby]

Mike134 wrote:
nobody on any forum has seen a person pulled over for a weight check total internet rumor garbage

I can't say I have seen a RV stopped for overweight. OTOH, mid '80s Lexington Mo. In court waiting my turn to show I had changed plates, was no longer running out of bounds, I watched 4 people that where ticketed overweight pickup/boat be ordered to pay fines.
Late '90s, county court in Camron Mo, waiting for my lawyer to settle overload 2 men where talking about getting stopped by paddy wagon with their travel trailers, getting overload tickets. (At the time CMV enforcement used vans)
Now does it happen often? No, but it can. But as to the trailer brake issue; I watched a van pulling a trailer slide head-on into my truck. Of course the first thing that happened was they had to make sure my truck setting in left turn lane was not overloaded. But I kept pointing at the light cord/adapter. When I got out the disposable camera started taking pictures LEO made a mark on report. I had no issue collecting damages, don't know how the driver came out on his reckless driving charge.

[Mike134]

nobody on any forum has seen a person pulled over for a weight check total internet rumor garbage

blt2ski wrote:

mkirsch wrote:
That's just it. It's a "recommendation" at best, not a "limit."

Those who have trouble with reading comprehension believe it is some sort of law, and that the F150 trailer towing shock patrol is going to spring from the bushes, throw them to the ground, stuff a sack over their head, and drag them off to a Siberian gulag if they try towing 1501lbs without brakes.

Actually, not that it will happen to most of us......

Ford "could" deny warranty issues to you if towing over 1500 lbs of unbraked trailer caused an item to brake, not last as long etc. who will tell them?
Or,
if you did say rear end someone, they have another item to check off against you in a civil court case.
Or
If you are pulled over by an LEO, the do a perverbial "field test" of your braking ability. [COLOR=]nobody on any forum has seen a person pulled over for a weight check total internet rumor garbageTypically on a level at 10-20 mph stopping within X feet. You don't meet test requirements. You get a red tag, can't move vehicle with trailer attached, assuming TV alone meets test requirement. Trailer get hauled off the road to a shop to get repaired. Then can not leave shop until an inspection is done.

These different legal or recommendations no matter what we are doing, being it hauling, towing, riding a bike, flying, boating etc. If you look at the issue one way, you're fine, but look at it from a different direction, assuming you're in the center of a circle, 360 ways to look at the issue, 359 of those ways can get you into major trouble, to one of the 360 ways getting you in trouble.

Like ALL things in life, look at the issue from more than one direction.

Yes, I've posted legal ways person is fine, but I also point out, not safe, or my recommendation etc at times too.

Marty

See comments in red

[PButler96]

This one went so far south it exited the atmosphere lol.

[tealboy]

mkirsch wrote:
That's just it. It's a "recommendation" at best, not a "limit."

Those who have trouble with reading comprehension believe it is some sort of law, and that the F150 trailer towing shock patrol is going to spring from the bushes, throw them to the ground, stuff a sack over their head, and drag them off to a Siberian gulag if they try towing 1501lbs without brakes.

You are obviously smarter than everyone else. You can word smith as you wish, but I’ve looked at so many vehicles and these limits that I’m sure I mixed facts but for example, straight from the owners manual,

Gmc 1500 sierra Denali says “loaded trailers over 2000 lbs must be equipped with brake systems and with brakes for each axles”. I see the word”must” as a limit or requirement.

Toyota Sequoia and the tundra, owners manual says “ maximum allowable unbraked trailer weight is 1000 lbs”. You might also interpret that as a recommendation not a requirement but I don’t.

Ford, in all fairness is more vague. They say “ separate functional brakes “should” be used for safe control of towed vehicles and for trailers where the gcwr of the towing vehicle plus the trailer exceed the gvwr of the tow vehicle”. You have to do some math and make assumptions here but the way I understand it , the payload is appx 1550-2000lbs depending on model so that would imply a fairly low tow threahold before brakes “should” be used assuming you are trying to operate the vehicle in a safe and controlled manner as ford puts it.

[Boomerweps]

BB_TX wrote:

tealboy wrote:
…….

…. …….. The F150 for example Has a unbraked limit of 1500 lbs.

Where did you find this information? I have looked thru my manuals and cannot find anything addressing this. Not questioning you. Just curious where to find it.

Ford F-150 owner’s manual. For 2019 on page 311, “Separate functioning brake systems are required for safe control of towed vehicles and trailers weighing more than 1500 pounds (680 kg) when loaded”.

NOTE the word REQUIRED, not recommended. There are clear differences between these words, similar to shall and should. Yes, looking at the source material, somebody’s reading comprehension is suspect. This is a manufacturer’s requirement, not a legal one.

[blt2ski]

mkirsch wrote:
That's just it. It's a "recommendation" at best, not a "limit."

Those who have trouble with reading comprehension believe it is some sort of law, and that the F150 trailer towing shock patrol is going to spring from the bushes, throw them to the ground, stuff a sack over their head, and drag them off to a Siberian gulag if they try towing 1501lbs without brakes.

Actually, not that it will happen to most of us......

Ford "could" deny warranty issues to you if towing over 1500 lbs of unbraked trailer caused an item to brake, not last as long etc.
Or,
if you did say rear end someone, they have another item to check off against you in a civil court case.
Or
If you are pulled over by an LEO, the do a perverbial "field test" of your braking ability. Typically on a level at 10-20 mph stopping within X feet. You don't meet test requirements. You get a red tag, can't move vehicle with trailer attached, assuming TV alone meets test requirement. Trailer get hauled off the road to a shop to get repaired. Then can not leave shop until an inspection is done.

These different legal or recommendations no matter what we are doing, being it hauling, towing, riding a bike, flying, boating etc. If you look at the issue one way, you're fine, but look at it from a different direction, assuming you're in the center of a circle, 360 ways to look at the issue, 359 of those ways can get you into major trouble, to one of the 360 ways getting you in trouble.

Like ALL things in life, look at the issue from more than one direction.

Yes, I've posted legal ways person is fine, but I also point out, not safe, or my recommendation etc at times too.

Marty

[Grit_dog]

mkirsch wrote:
That's just it. It's a "recommendation" at best, not a "limit."

Those who have trouble with reading comprehension believe it is some sort of law, and that the F150 trailer towing shock patrol is going to spring from the bushes, throw them to the ground, stuff a sack over their head, and drag them off to a Siberian gulag if they try towing 1501lbs without brakes.

Like button.

[mkirsch]

That's just it. It's a "recommendation" at best, not a "limit."

Those who have trouble with reading comprehension believe it is some sort of law, and that the F150 trailer towing shock patrol is going to spring from the bushes, throw them to the ground, stuff a sack over their head, and drag them off to a Siberian gulag if they try towing 1501lbs without brakes.

[BB_TX]

Grit dog wrote:

BB_TX wrote:

tealboy wrote:
…….

…. …….. The F150 for example Has a unbraked limit of 1500 lbs.

Where did you find this information? I have looked thru my manuals and cannot find anything addressing this. Not questioning you. Just curious where to find it.

It doesn't.
Just more made up rvnet c rap.

Just for gits and shiggles I pulled up a random F150 owners manual (2018) and it states something to the effect of follow your state's guidelines or requirements for max trailer weight without trailer brakes.

Actually it does say it. Sorta. My 2022 F150 came with condensed manuals with the full manual available on-line. After searching thru that I found the reference to the 1,500 lb number. The manual says Ford "recommends" brakes on trailers over 1,500 lb. It does not say it is a "limit".

[JRscooby]

I have not looked at the numbers lately but I bet you can buy a pair of brake kits, with shoes springs and magnets mounted to backing plates, a pair of drums, break-away switch, controller, and some wire for less than the cost of front bumper for your TV.

[tealboy]

blt2ski wrote:
For what it's worth, GM recommends brakes for trailers over 2000 lbs in my 1500. Which, is about the max payload of the truck. Brakes it's 6700 or so.....blown that number out of the water. Identical V8 it's around 11,000 braked.

I'll stick to my earlier, if the trailer puts you much over the manufactures GVW, say max 500-1000 lbs, best to have brakes on it, no matter the vehicle.

Marty

Yes, I looked up gm too, they are 2000 lbs for the sierra but also the Yukon/Tahoe but after all that I’ve discovered in this process, including our discussion today in response to my post, I’ve pretty much landed with what Marty says here, 500-1000 outside of gvwr will certainly fall within the safety margin of what the manufacturer has designed. Frankly, 1000 seems like the right breakpoint but I’m going to do a bit more math before officially deciding. Im also heading to the cat scale Friday.

[PButler96]

It looks like this is turning into a first class Duesenberg lol