What is the risk of exceeding payload?

[Danattherock]

Depending on what vehicle we buy, our Airstream will be a 27' twin, or 30' bunk. If we buy the Ford F-250 diesel, will get 30'. But if we are able to safely tow the 27' twin with Tundra, we are going that route. Hitch weight is 781 lbs, dry weight is 5850 lbs.

Main usage will be 1-2 weekend trips a month to the nearby Smoky Mountains of NC and Tenn. For us that's 3-4 hours of hwy and 1-2 hours of twisty and steep grades in the mountains. Mostly on paved roads but some secondary gravel roads. Also will be taking a 2-3 week national parks type trip out west each summer. Wife and I weigh 550, kids are just infant and toddler, but growing. Same applies to our 16 week shepherd, Chena.

Toyota Tundra Max Cab 4x4 Limited or 1794. We fell in love with it the moment we saw it. Heart wants what the heart wants. Fit and finish of the 1794 model exceeds that of every other truck we saw. The issue, the dang sticker in driver door that said payload 1300 lbs.

So, what are the real world risks, warnings, or just plain ole criticisms of exceeding the printed payload by 200-300lbs?

I've seen countless images of much heavier campers than what we are considering being pulled by Tundras. I've read enough and talked to enough owners to believe that this is truly an underrated truck. All the 5/8 ton jokes. Etc.

What measures, if any, could one take to minimize any handling or safety issues associated with exceeding the printed payload? Would changing springs and/or shocks help? Adding an airbag system?


What say you?


Any and all opinions or criticisms appreciated.



Dan

[blt2ski]

CWSWine wrote:
Here some info from a guy that makes a living giving towing advice.

Towing

The one false thing about the article, is the legal mumbo jumbo. It is NOT a required law that I or anyone use a WD if over the hitch limit. IE an LEO will not ticket you. On the other hand, if in an accident, nothing illegal is found, a CIVIL case may be brought up, in which case, this can be a hit against you.

Marty

[CWSWine]

Here some info from a guy that makes a living giving towing advice.

Towing

[45Ricochet]

The question will be, what will be considered overweight? will it me manufacture warranty numbers? or the road bed design limit numbers?

Just me but I'll stick with the guys who made it not a government agency who really don't give a darn about the average Joe :W

[NC_Hauler]

"I'll still take a slightly under power rig, that can handle the trailer vs an overpowered rig that is too small in payload!
Marty "

Guess I'm covered then...I DON'T have an under powered rig, (385HP/850TQ), AND my payload is MORE than enough.....Even with toolbox, full tank of DEF, full tank of Diesel, wife, myself and two boxers in the truck, with a pin weight of only 3460...I'm STILL 1300# under my trucks GVWR of 14,000#...WAYYYY under the trucks RAWR of 9750# @ 65 psi.. (AAM rates the 11.8 axle @ 11,500#....Figure if I aired the tires to sidewall max of 80 psi, RAWR would conservatively be good for 10,000# (but I believe more)

OP with 1 ton SRW will eventually realize he made the right choice.

[blt2ski]

The question will be, what will be considered overweight? will it me manufacture warranty numbers? or the road bed design limit numbers? if the latter, there are very few pickups near that number, nor will there ever be for the most part. Even those that have no issues at being at the axel limits, but over gvwr will not be close to the road bed limits of 500+ lbs per inch width of tire or max 20K lbs per axel, 34K per tandem. That is 20-22K per pickup with singles, trailers in the 16-20K per tandem for a typical tire width rv.

It could also be based on the PAID for license to. IE my C2500 is licensed at 8000 lbs. I am NOT legal to the door sticker of 8600 lbs. I would need to buy a 10K license to do so. THEN I would be legal to 10K also. As the above paragraph points out, with 9.5" tires, I am good to 9500 per axel or 19K total. Not happening any time soon.

Marty

[BenK]

Not to worry...they now can weigh you without pulling you over....

Just pay attention at weigh stations NOW...there are over head boxes along with embedded
gauges on the pavement that can weigh while moving along on the freeway

Plus....all too soon...each vehicle will have load cells and the ability to "tell" when overweight....

[gitane59]

bguy wrote:
I'm not advocating speeding or overloading by any means. Just pointing out the fact that many people speed ( by and large more than 10% over ) and think nothing of it.
Rumor around here was that they were going to start pulling over the overloaded truck/camper combos. I say stop all of the overloaded vehicles.
There's a good many overloaded vans cars and trucks on the road, not just the trailered ones, and there's a good many of them speeding as well.

What irratate me is if LEO's are going to pull over truck/camper combos for overloaded they had better start pulling over Sedans and CUV/SUV's pulling bumper pull TT's while overloaded including overloaded sedans pulling Airstreams. If your overloaded, your overloaded regardless of how the dealer has done the setup.
We have road safety blitzes north of Toronto on the HWY400 where LOE's pulling over almost any vehicle that looks overloaded or unsafe.

Bet they don't pull over sedans pulling triple axles Airstreams though. :R

[bguy]

I'm not advocating speeding or overloading by any means. Just pointing out the fact that many people speed ( by and large more than 10% over ) and think nothing of it.
Rumor around here was that they were going to start pulling over the overloaded truck/camper combos. I say stop all of the overloaded vehicles.
There's a good many overloaded vans cars and trucks on the road, not just the trailered ones, and there's a good many of them speeding as well.

[45Ricochet]

Danattherock wrote:
Thanks for the insights. I appreciate it. We spent the day at a few large volume Chevy and Ford dealers in Charlotte, about 1.5 hours up the road.

We are going to buy a silver F-350 or Chevy 3500 HD single rear wheel 4x4.

Where can I buy the sexy lady rear mud flaps:)


Dan
NC

Smart move on your part, you'll enjoy the drive much better and be safer also.
The sexy lady flaps are at most big rig type fuel stations or the local Peterbuilt, KW, Volvo dealerships. I think you'll have a bad time mounting them onto a SRW truck though :W
Enjoy your new ride!

[blt2ski]

TP,

Too bad your 93 was not an NV4500. GCWR is 2000 lbs lower than a 4l80e equiped truck. the 4l80e Pulls 10 mph slower up a 5-6^ grade, only can go up a 15% grade at 15K, an NV is 30% at 20K. I could pull those 5-6% grades with AC on, most I knew with the 4l80 needed AC off, and the water temp was still some 20F higher than my 96. Not sure what is so special about that 4 spd auto that took some 20 more HP to use vs the NV.

The only white knuckle times I had at 15-16K were not caused by weight issues. ie 30 15-20 passenger vans on a site seeing tour coming the opposite direction as me on a 1.5 lane mtn pass in Utah above Redfords ski area. that was fun. A buffalo walking down the middle of the road in yellowstone......realizing his horn would go thru the door and halfway into me!.......

I'll still take a slightly under power rig, that can handle the trailer vs an overpowered rig that is too small in payload!

Marty

[Hannibal]

I bet far more minivans and SUVs as well as cars on trips to Disney World are way more overloaded than we realize. Almost all make it unscathed. I've seen many pickup trucks with and without trailers obviously grossly overloaded going along without failure. Some, like the Explorer fiasco, weren't so lucky. Just the same, I'll exceed GVWR or GCVWR but I won't exceed axle or tire ratings. In the mountains I would likely want to be well below both of those ratings.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

jtallon wrote:
Edited to clarify my point...

I think we have much higher standards and expectations today than we did in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

Used to be we didn't wear seatbelts. We'd fold the rear seats down on a station wagon to make a play area for the kids. Now we expect three point seatbelts (not just lap belts), car seats, padded dashes, crumple zones, safety glass, and airbags.

Used to be we didn't think twice at plodding up a grade at 30mph, engine screaming, AC turned off for a few extra horsepower. No one else towing was going any faster. It's just how it was.

Now we want all the safety gadgets surrounding us. And we want to tow up that 8% grade at the speed limit (or preferably 5 over to avoid getting the finger from someone) even at 9000 feet high, slightly annoyed if it has to drop a gear or two in the process. And get at least 12mpg doing it.

It's a matter of which set of expectations you're looking to meet.. the ones from the 70's, or the ones from 2015. They were good years back then. But the times have changed, for better or worse. We're capable of doing better now, and we should encourage it, not just settle for what used to work.

I agree, we have come a long way. And that's my point.

Let's talk about the OP's truck and one of the trucks I own right now.

My truck:
93 3/4 ton diesel. 200 HP, 4L80 tranny with a full floating rear. I think the truck weighs around 6,500 lbs? Truck tows my 7K TT just fine until I get to the mountains. Then the lack of HP really shows up.

OP's truck:

Yota 1/2 ton gas. I don't know what year the Yoda is but it has almost twice the HP of my diesel if it has the 5.7 engine and over 30 more HP even if it's a V6! Yota wins big time!

The Yoda has a 5 speed auto and mine has a 4 speed auto. Yota wins!

Rear end I would bet the 1/2 ton Yota has a semi-floating axel? If it does, I win because I have a full floater!

Brakes? Yota has ABS disk all the way around. My truck has ABS in the rear only and disk in the front only. Yota wins! (although I more than likely have bigger brakes)(I bet the Yota would stop the truck and trailer faster than my 3/4 ton truck and trailer)

If I drove into a campground most people would say "that's a very safe setup", (and it is!!!) but if the Yota pulled in pulling the same trailer most people on this site would say, "it's dangerous or it's just ok but it would be better if you had a 3/4 ton truck."

WTH? The Yoda is clearly a "safer" truck then my 3/4 ton diesel in most areas, but people for some weird reason perceive it's not? :h

My point? My 93 diesel is a damn nice truck to tow with but a modern 1/2 ton will out tow it in almost every performance and safety category. For some reason just because it has black smoke coming out of the pipe and the 2500 badge on the fender most think it's a brute, and because the Yoda is a half ton people think its a light weight. :h

[LarryJM]

NC Hauler wrote:


Just because some do it doesn't make it "OK", nor does it make it safe. I'll never come on these forum and with a clear conscience tell someone its ok to exceed their towing limits.

I'm TOTALLY ONBOARD with that concept and to do otherwise is IMO not only not prudent, but boarders on being irresponsible. I also even think saying that one has exceeded this or that and so far so good is also being on the verge of being reckless and irresponsible.

Larry

[DakotaDad]

blt2ski wrote:

jtallon wrote:

blt2ski wrote:

The problem you have with the speed limit plus 5 on an 8% grade as you stated in an earlier post. This is non realistic!

It wasn't meant to be realistic. It was meant to be an exaggeration (even though some do seem to expect it), a contrast against the "30mph with no AC" days of towing in yesteryear.

There's a realistic, happy, safe medium here. Somewhere that we can tow safely, with adequate performance and a safety margin. But without having to all purchase an MDT to accomplish it. Where that medium lies, and how to achieve it is obviously the subject of a LOT of threads on RV.net.

Whether exaggeration or real expectation, What you stated is non realistic. So it really does not do anyone any good to say so.

Then going from towing specs, from payload specs are two different problems too. The OP does not have the ability to tow to some degree just about anything with the toyota. I needed a SW 1 ton to tote a 7000 lbs travel trailer when I was towing with my 4 kids. I had said toyota at gvwr BEFORE loading a trailer, much less after loading a trailer! Even with that 1 ton I was going 35-45 up a lot of steeper freeway grades, with the AC on at least. That frankly is a reasonble expectation, which is what the J2087 specs say one should be able to do minimum. I would expect either of the rigs the OP asked about to do this. But 60 or 65 up an 8% grade.....Not even sure some empty semi tractors would do that, depending upon if they were specd for city, vs highway pulling.

Marty

I was purely commenting in response to Turtle n Peeps comment, not commenting on the OP's situation at all. It seems to me Danattherock has his situation settled with a decision to purchase an F350 or 3500.

I was trying (unsuccessfully, apparently) to suggest that we have very different expectations today than we did in the 60's and 70's, and that what we put up with back then would clearly not pass muster with our elevated expectations today. I thought the 8% grade at 5 over the speed limit at 9000 feet without dropping a gear was sufficiently unrealistic enough to be seen as poetic license, not a literal expectation. I misjudged.

I'll stick to being painstakingly literal going forward.