Sad state of our National Parks-II

[Yosemite_Sam1]

Again, this is not political. It is to our interest as RVers and for Camping World business to have an outstanding national parks that usually provide the cheaper camping facilities and best places to visit and see.

Just recently been to one of the most popular national park and the results of funding cuts (7%), fund diversion ($22 million for the frivolous July 4 parade) and distorted priorities or even hostility towards the environment (area around Sequoia National Park are set to be opened for oil explorations).

The symptoms of these are all over. Campsites opening late, maintenance not being done, exodus of park rangers and unfilled positions. One very obvious situations on the two camps I've stayed are slots marked unavailable because it's inaccessible when a simple mini dozer could have graded the dirt road, closing of all toilets because of unapproved requisitions and requests for repairs of pipes for the water system...

I've written the top federal department responsible -- not even a form letter acknowledgement of my concerns.

Maybe if more of us...

[Charlie_D_]

JRscooby wrote:

lane hog wrote:

Entitlements are why this country is going broke. Everyone wants someone else to pay the way for them. Look at the bozo’s running for office. They want to give away free healthcare, free college, loan forgiveness for kids who chose a degree in 19th Century French Gender Studies (and wondering why they can’t find a job)... but “the rich” will somehow be taxed enough to pay for it.

Some could argue the country is "going broke" because many people, including about half the people that work for money, think the only people that should pay taxes are the people that work for their money.
If you look back to the time in our country's history, you would see that there was a great growth in the middle class, (the people that spend money to make the economy grow) at the same time a large percentage of the population was given free or very low cost college education. At the same time, the tax rate on higher incomes was much higher than it has been at any time since.
As to the wrinkly discount. The lake I go to most often, has both State Park and COE CGs. The State charges $1.00 more than COE. If the state was full, we would make or res at COE. But now that I have the discount, I put up with the less favorable sites, and driving thru both, I bet without the discount that COE CG would bring in less money.
BTW, as host at a state park, I know there is a space on the check-in program for donations. Bet there is a box for that on the Fed program to.

Well said by both of you. Nothing is free and taxing the rich is not the answer although some who are politicians and rich say that is will work. Millions of people cheer with delight when those who seek to deceive them shout "Free" Free" Free" and tax the rich"

From the tax foundation: "In 2016, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 3 percent. The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (37.3 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (30.5 percent).Nov 13, 2018"

[tomman58]

Grodyman wrote:

tomman58 wrote:
We see our national parks being sold off to oil rigs in pristine lands, oil and mining being sold in our other parks, coal runoff being put back in our streams, air quality under attack and climate change being ignored. The parks are ours not any particular administration. Any monies gathered by making our enviroment worse should be dumped back into the parks it is the least the thieves of the public could do.

A Duramax Diesel and a giant trailer, a full tank of diesel and a Honda gas generator....and you complain about “climate change.”

Stop preaching and walk the walk.

I guess you don't know that diesels are greener than everything but electric and there are no 2500 electrics...yet. My giant trailer weighs far less than most 5ers. The Honda genny uses far less fuel than other gennys. So enough on the soap box stuff.
Yep I complain about a government ignoring climate change and my use of a few hundred gallons of diesel each year likely doesn't compare to you going to work.

[JRscooby]

lane hog wrote:

Entitlements are why this country is going broke. Everyone wants someone else to pay the way for them. Look at the bozo’s running for office. They want to give away free healthcare, free college, loan forgiveness for kids who chose a degree in 19th Century French Gender Studies (and wondering why they can’t find a job)... but “the rich” will somehow be taxed enough to pay for it.

Some could argue the country is "going broke" because many people, including about half the people that work for money, think the only people that should pay taxes are the people that work for their money.
If you look back to the time in our country's history, you would see that there was a great growth in the middle class, (the people that spend money to make the economy grow) at the same time a large percentage of the population was given free or very low cost college education. At the same time, the tax rate on higher incomes was much higher than it has been at any time since.
As to the wrinkly discount. The lake I go to most often, has both State Park and COE CGs. The State charges $1.00 more than COE. If the state was full, we would make or res at COE. But now that I have the discount, I put up with the less favorable sites, and driving thru both, I bet without the discount that COE CG would bring in less money.
BTW, as host at a state park, I know there is a space on the check-in program for donations. Bet there is a box for that on the Fed program to.

[Grodyman]

tomman58 wrote:
We see our national parks being sold off to oil rigs in pristine lands, oil and mining being sold in our other parks, coal runoff being put back in our streams, air quality under attack and climate change being ignored. The parks are ours not any particular administration. Any monies gathered by making our enviroment worse should be dumped back into the parks it is the least the thieves of the public could do.

A Duramax Diesel and a giant trailer, a full tank of diesel and a Honda gas generator....and you complain about “climate change.”

Stop preaching and walk the walk.

[lane_hog]

JaxDad wrote:

lane hog wrote:
I wonder how many of the people here complaining about the state of the National Parks are using reduced rate passes vs. the $80 annual pass, and taking advantage of the 50% discount on camping.

Discounts for seniors and the disabled mean less money to be used in the parks, yet the vehicles they drive have the same impact on the roads and their RV's occupy the same amount of space that a "full price" visitor's would...

And I wonder if you were permanently disabled as a result of serving your country and no longer able to earn the same money you used to / could have if you would mind paying “full price” to see your country and have a little R & R with your family?

Freedom is not free, and those that enjoy it are rarely the ones who pay for it.

If you can afford an RV and the gas for it, you can probably afford to pay full price for the resources you consume at a National Park.

Entitlements are why this country is going broke. Everyone wants someone else to pay the way for them. Look at the bozo’s running for office. They want to give away free healthcare, free college, loan forgiveness for kids who chose a degree in 19th Century French Gender Studies (and wondering why they can’t find a job)... but “the rich” will somehow be taxed enough to pay for it.

Math doesn’t work that way. If everyone is paying half-price at the NPS campgrounds, there will be half as much money available to maintain them...

Disabled vets are the only group who should get a free ride. Simply being old isn’t a good enough reason (my wife is retired, and I’m counting down days to retirement).

[Yosemite_Sam1]

I have experienced the futility of asking for solidarity for some causes I thought we share.

So I'm writing for the perchance that someone can get an idea or two.

My own life and management philosophy was that "any change has to start with me".

And this is my own as regards national parks and other public facilities.

!. I don't trash it and thread lightly and thoughtfully.

2. I pick up after others.

3. I tell people of the regulations. And felt it my duty to report to authorities the violations if they don't heed me.

4. I support environment and national/state/county/city outdoors and wildlife initiatives.

5. I write to federal/state/county/city to add my voice and beliefs on issues.

6. I volunteer (and again, this is my latest experience: I put out my name and was told I might not get a return call because of the current situation of lack of permanent personnel to supervise volunteers. Told also that we cannot do it on our own because of safety issues and for some activities, we might do more harm than good when a scientist or experts are needed to direct us).

[Yosemite_Sam1]

JRscooby wrote:

Charlie D. wrote:

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

BTW, I met a woman and her children (no husband around) in Touloumne Meadows who told me after she found out that I live just 3 hours away and would camp and visit there at least yearly, on how lucky I am to have these where in "Texas, there is nothing."

I don't understand why someone from Texas would make that statement. Perhaps ignorance on her part. We have 13 National parks, forests, recreational areas and monuments in Texas and 51 state parks. Been to many of them and each has it's uniqueness and beauty.

LOL. Next time somebody tells you they just got home from a trip to wherever, ask what they did. Many will travel hundreds of miles to see a art gallery or museum. But go to a local one? No, everybody there came from the other city. Talk how great the Omaha zoo is, but if you have not been to the local Kansas City zoo how can you compare?

So very true!

I met someone from out of state who is familiar with the attractions within 30 minutes from my city.

I kept on being embarrassed when I have to respond that I've never been to the place she is so enamored about.

I was only able to give my ascent on the subject of local Bass Pro. I have to pull my wife when the topic turn to malls and shopping outlets.

[JaxDad]

lane hog wrote:
I wonder how many of the people here complaining about the state of the National Parks are using reduced rate passes vs. the $80 annual pass, and taking advantage of the 50% discount on camping.

Discounts for seniors and the disabled mean less money to be used in the parks, yet the vehicles they drive have the same impact on the roads and their RV's occupy the same amount of space that a "full price" visitor's would...

And I wonder if you were permanently disabled as a result of serving your country and no longer able to earn the same money you used to / could have if you would mind paying “full price” to see your country and have a little R & R with your family?

Freedom is not free, and those that enjoy it are rarely the ones who pay for it.

[monkey44]

Tvov wrote:

monkey44 wrote:
....
Last fall, we found a young woman (22-23 age maybe) opening a new box containing a Drone w/camera and preparing to fly it over the Grand Canyon - Illegal in national parks. We tried to explain why no drones, and she could be arrested if she flew it. ....

I don't want to go off topic too much, but...

Drones are illegal in national parks? There are a lot of national parks in the USA, you can't fly a drone anywhere in them?

I have heard of restrictions on where and when you can use drones, but not outright "illegal" to use.

Correct, No Drones -- In August 2014, the National Park Service (NPS) made it illegal to operate drones in National Parks under 36 CFR 1.5.

People that had limited flying skills were dropping drones into isolated areas - Yellowstone Hot Springs for one - and have no access to retrieve.

[BillyBob_Jim]

Tvov wrote:

monkey44 wrote:
....
Last fall, we found a young woman (22-23 age maybe) opening a new box containing a Drone w/camera and preparing to fly it over the Grand Canyon - Illegal in national parks. We tried to explain why no drones, and she could be arrested if she flew it. ....

I don't want to go off topic too much, but...

Drones are illegal in national parks? There are a lot of national parks in the USA, you can't fly a drone anywhere in them?

I have heard of restrictions on where and when you can use drones, but not outright "illegal" to use.

Not only illegal at all National parks, but at any Army Corp facility or land including over waterways, and almost all state parks, along with too many other places to list.

Have had them since the days we built them ourselves and since they became mass produced everything went to hell in a handbasket as far as bans etc.

[Tvov]

monkey44 wrote:
....
Last fall, we found a young woman (22-23 age maybe) opening a new box containing a Drone w/camera and preparing to fly it over the Grand Canyon - Illegal in national parks. We tried to explain why no drones, and she could be arrested if she flew it. ....

I don't want to go off topic too much, but...

Drones are illegal in national parks? There are a lot of national parks in the USA, you can't fly a drone anywhere in them?

I have heard of restrictions on where and when you can use drones, but not outright "illegal" to use.

[caver]

When they raised it from 10$ to 80$ for the Senior Pass that was just wrong. :M

[ReneeG]

lane hog wrote:
I wonder how many of the people here complaining about the state of the National Parks are using reduced rate passes vs. the $80 annual pass, and taking advantage of the 50% discount on camping.

Discounts for seniors and the disabled mean less money to be used in the parks, yet the vehicles they drive have the same impact on the roads and their RV's occupy the same amount of space that a "full price" visitor's would...

Oh Lord! Don't go there! I've waited a very long time to get this pass, but I had to pay the $80 instead of $10 that used to be offered and I thoroughly enjoy being able to pay 50% off for camping. There aren't a lot of good, really good, perks for retired persons, but this is one of them. All the other persons that pay full price more than make up for those of us that don't.

[monkey44]

JRscooby - NO, not saying Americans are too stupid to educate - but some just don't care. They may not realize one or two pieces of trash from each visitor adds up to a large pile eventually, or maybe just don't think about that impact.

We leave nothing in our site, ever, ours or any trash others leave.

And, I doubt anyone climbed down GC canyon walls and hauled that Drone out. But we do see visitors climbing and walking around areas that are marked 'off-limits', protected areas 'keep out', which are ignored.

We also welcome visitors from other nations - but from first hand experience, we see many visitors either don't care or don't know enough to clean up after themselves whether American or other nationality. If you've been to an major parks lately, you'll hear a very high proportion of languages you don't recognize, certainly more than one in a hundred.

And, no, of course I don't accept that some can pick and choose which rules to obey or not. Seems to me common sense is often absent when some folks visit our parks ... I have no idea why some folks toss trash all over, or simply leave it. OR, why some folks think a one-ton bison bull during rut season is pet-worthy.

[JRscooby]

Charlie D. wrote:

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

BTW, I met a woman and her children (no husband around) in Touloumne Meadows who told me after she found out that I live just 3 hours away and would camp and visit there at least yearly, on how lucky I am to have these where in "Texas, there is nothing."

I don't understand why someone from Texas would make that statement. Perhaps ignorance on her part. We have 13 National parks, forests, recreational areas and monuments in Texas and 51 state parks. Been to many of them and each has it's uniqueness and beauty.

LOL. Next time somebody tells you they just got home from a trip to wherever, ask what they did. Many will travel hundreds of miles to see a art gallery or museum. But go to a local one? No, everybody there came from the other city. Talk how great the Omaha zoo is, but if you have not been to the local Kansas City zoo how can you compare?