Call the weight police, can't believe what I'm looking at!

[Thunder_Mountai]

I try not to get involved in "weight police" issues, but I've got to comment on what I'm looking at. I've had a couple of big fivers a 31' and 33'. So, I'm not a newbie.

We came back into the campground this afternoon and there is a five slide 38' Montana Big Sky in a nearby site. I've always liked that unit. It has an attached trailer with a beautiful Harley trike. Wife commented that it was being pulled by a 2500. I said, "Are you sure?"

I went back to take a second look. Sure enough it was a Chevy 2500. No way that guy can be within towing limits. Anybody got an idea of what kind of weight that guy is towing and his pin weight?

[ol_Bombero-JC]

esfd243 wrote:
My 2012 Chevy D/A would yank that around without issue.

And how would it do in a panic stop situation??..:@

.

[JIMNLIN]

The Weekenders wrote:

Don Z wrote:

JIMNLIN wrote:


IMO troll threads like this one should be deleted before it gets started. They serve zero purpose.

Anyone have a dead horse pic

Ask and ye shall receive...



Don Z.

Love it!!!

LOL !!! X2

[The_Weekenders]

Don Z wrote:

JIMNLIN wrote:


IMO troll threads like this one should be deleted before it gets started. They serve zero purpose.

Anyone have a dead horse pic

Ask and ye shall receive...



Don Z.

Love it!!!

[PA12DRVR]

I agree that without #'s, analysis is difficult.

What I find interesting is those that say GCVWR is only for "performance" or "marketing" or that say that the "legal registered weight" is all that matters.

The excerpt by Spud from the Ford owners manual states:

"GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) – is the maximum allowable
weight of the vehicle and the loaded trailer – including all cargo and
passengers – that the vehicle can handle without risking damage."

If one exceeds GCWR, one risks damage according to Ford. While everyone is free to ignore that statement, there it is in black and white. Interestingly, the manual doesn't say "if you exceed....you risk going slow" or "If you exceed...it doesn't matter as long as you paid enough registration fee."

The Ford manual says that one risk damage by exceeding GCWR. Amazingly straightforward.

[jody_h]

Back in 1990 we had a 1989 Super Duty witch was a F450 it didnt say 450 just super duty. It had a 10' flat bed on it. I was pulling a 30' flat deck GN trailer with a roll of Conveyor Belt that the weight of the belt was 8000#. I was only doing about 30 mph when this fool cut me off. I slam down on the brakes and when i stopped i was sideways and the trailer was straight. If i was going any faster you can bet i would have jacked knifed. When i got straighten back out i pulled over and seen that the trailer had come unpluged. No trailer brakes means the back of the truck is coming around if you have to do a panic stop. No matter the size of the truck.

[Terryallan]

Francesca Knowles wrote:
I'm familiar with laws governing brakes- not asking about that, just the ability of oem pickup brakes to stop the weight of a trailer (if, for example, the trailer brakes failed).

There seems to be some disagreement about that point.

IF you are a good driver. You would more than likely be able to stop it, using the gears, and the truck brakes. But it would take a very long time

[SolidAxleDurang]

Francesca Knowles wrote:
I'm familiar with laws governing brakes- not asking about that, just the ability of oem pickup brakes to stop the weight of a trailer (if, for example, the trailer brakes failed).

There seems to be some disagreement about that point.

People that seem to believe a 3/4T, 1T SRW, or 1TDRW are designed to stop their full GCWR absent trailer brakes are disillusioned.

Additionally, those that somehow believe that absent trailer brakes, you are significantly better-off with one type of truck vs another.... I say test it for the rest of us.

With a trailer brake failure on the mythical "heading down the mountain" scenario that seems to always come up.... ALL THREE trucks will end in a fiery crash.

[Francesca_Knowl]

I'm familiar with laws governing brakes- not asking about that, just the ability of oem pickup brakes to stop the weight of a trailer (if, for example, the trailer brakes failed).

There seems to be some disagreement about that point.

[laknox]

Francesca Knowles wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

spud1957 wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

I can tell you I sure would rather be in my Dually with a great exhaust brake and 6 tires on the ground than any single wheeled truck in that situation! My dually has huge brakes.

I can only speak for Ford, but their 2012+ 350/450DRW brakes are the same size as the 250/350SRW with the exception of the rear caliper pistons. They are 1/4" bigger.

However. they are still NOT rated to stop the trailer. Only the truck.

I'm a "small tower" so don't really have a dog in this fight, but I'd like to ask a question about the above exchange:

On small vehicles like the one I use to tow our smallest trailer, the mfr. almost always gives two tow limit numbers- one with and one without brakes on the trailer. I've always presumed that's related to the tow vehicle's braking ability- that is, tug brakes are sufficient to stop both itself and the trailer so long as weight's below the "no brakes" limit.

I don't see any such "different weights of trailer" language at pickup spec sites like this Ford link.

Since they don't say "trailer brakes required for (x) weight", doesn't that mean that the pickup's brakes are sized to stop the maximum load (GCWR)????

Most state laws address this issue simply by stating that any trailer over X lbs GVW (3,000 in AZ) MUST have brakes...period. Whether electric or surge is up to the owner. Doesn't matter if you're towing with a Kia Rio or a Kenworth twin-screw.

Lyle

Lyle

[spud1957]

Dandy Dan wrote:

spud1957 wrote:
Francesca, the link you provided is a web page that provides weights more for marketing/sales than anything else. The info I provided up two posts is quoted from my users manual that came with my truck. It is specific relating to trailer towing, GVWR and GCWR for the F250/350/450/550.

Here is their disclaimer for the website info:

This Site and all the information it contains is provided for information purposes only on an "as is" basis and could include technical, typographical or other errors. In certain areas, the information provided may represent an opinion or judgment. Ford, information providers and their agents make no warranties, representations, or guarantees of any kind, express or implied, including but not limited to, accuracy, currency, or completeness, the operation of the Site, the information, materials, content, availability, and products. To the extent permitted by applicable law, Ford disclaims all warranties, express or implied, including but not limited to, implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose.

Spud, I like your above post. Sounds like Ford posts numbers to sell vehicles and then writes book stating they are not responsible for any of the above information. What a way to "Cover your A$$" :B

Yep!!

[Don_Z]

JIMNLIN wrote:


IMO troll threads like this one should be deleted before it gets started. They serve zero purpose.

Anyone have a dead horse pic

Ask and ye shall receive...



Don Z.

[Dandy_Dan]

spud1957 wrote:
Francesca, the link you provided is a web page that provides weights more for marketing/sales than anything else. The info I provided up two posts is quoted from my users manual that came with my truck. It is specific relating to trailer towing, GVWR and GCWR for the F250/350/450/550.

Here is their disclaimer for the website info:

This Site and all the information it contains is provided for information purposes only on an "as is" basis and could include technical, typographical or other errors. In certain areas, the information provided may represent an opinion or judgment. Ford, information providers and their agents make no warranties, representations, or guarantees of any kind, express or implied, including but not limited to, accuracy, currency, or completeness, the operation of the Site, the information, materials, content, availability, and products. To the extent permitted by applicable law, Ford disclaims all warranties, express or implied, including but not limited to, implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose.

Spud, I like your above post. Sounds like Ford posts numbers to sell vehicles and then writes book stating they are not responsible for any of the above information. What a way to "Cover your A$$" :B

[spud1957]

Francesca, the link you provided is a web page that provides weights more for marketing/sales than anything else. The info I provided up two posts is quoted from my users manual that came with my truck. It is specific relating to trailer towing, GVWR and GCWR for the F250/350/450/550.

Here is their disclaimer for the website info:

This Site and all the information it contains is provided for information purposes only on an "as is" basis and could include technical, typographical or other errors. In certain areas, the information provided may represent an opinion or judgment. Ford, information providers and their agents make no warranties, representations, or guarantees of any kind, express or implied, including but not limited to, accuracy, currency, or completeness, the operation of the Site, the information, materials, content, availability, and products. To the extent permitted by applicable law, Ford disclaims all warranties, express or implied, including but not limited to, implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose.

[Francesca_Knowl]

Terryallan wrote:

spud1957 wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

I can tell you I sure would rather be in my Dually with a great exhaust brake and 6 tires on the ground than any single wheeled truck in that situation! My dually has huge brakes.

I can only speak for Ford, but their 2012+ 350/450DRW brakes are the same size as the 250/350SRW with the exception of the rear caliper pistons. They are 1/4" bigger.

However. they are still NOT rated to stop the trailer. Only the truck.

I'm a "small tower" so don't really have a dog in this fight, but I'd like to ask a question about the above exchange:

On small vehicles like the one I use to tow our smallest trailer, the mfr. almost always gives two tow limit numbers- one with and one without brakes on the trailer. I've always presumed that's related to the tow vehicle's braking ability- that is, tug brakes are sufficient to stop both itself and the trailer so long as weight's below the "no brakes" limit.

I don't see any such "different weights of trailer" language at pickup spec sites like this Ford link.

Since they don't say "trailer brakes required for (x) weight", doesn't that mean that the pickup's brakes are sized to stop the maximum load (GCWR)????

[laknox]

jerem0621 wrote:

spud1957 wrote:

MPI_Mallard wrote:

DSteiner51 wrote:

MPI_Mallard wrote:
I just wish we had a separate road for "yahoo's" with half azzed set-up's and a separate road for those of us with proper trucks that can safely do the job!!!

Red Green:
Some people are like slinkies....they serve no
function in life; but they still bring a smile to your
face when you push them down a flight of stairs!

This from a person who drives a half azzed chipped truck that is over the pressure ratings for the engine, over torqued tranny and drive line. Pot calling the kettle black? Gotta love it!! What did you up it? 10%? 15%? If the guy the OP saw was only over by 10-15% what is the difference?

I had the bully chip set up by my mechanic so the turbo is always turned on and that's all and if you look into it you'll find it keeps the turbo clean and improves air flow. My Dodge Ram 3500 truck with a 6.7 liter Cummins with the exhaust brake and it's 3500 series suspension and more importantly brakes are purpose built for hauling and stopping the large fiver I own and every time I see someone pulling a large fiver with these small trucks I cringe plus add to that the sales people at the car lot who (from my own personal experience while shopping) have little or no idea what truck will pull what weight, they just want to make a sale. A few years ago we saw a horrible accident on I-75 involving several cars when when a guy couldn't stop his 2500 pick-up while hauling a big horn and I myself have had some real close calls that the my Dodge was more than capable of handling at that time, hardly a half azzed chipped truck and more like the right tool for the right job!

Red Green:
Be generous with the duct tape, you know; spare the duct tape, spoil the job.

Regarding the brakes, this is Ford's view. This is from the 2011 Super Duty manual:

GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) – is the maximum allowable
weight of the vehicle and the loaded trailer – including all cargo and
passengers – that the vehicle can handle without risking damage.
(Important: The towing vehicle’s braking system is rated for operation at GVWR, not at GCWR.) Separate functional brakes should be used for safe control of towed vehicles and for trailers where the GCW of the towing vehicle plus the trailer exceed the GVWR of the towing vehicle.

Spud, why do you use things like facts to prove a point :B

I have often wondered what a fully loaded F350 Dually with a 15,000 lb fiver would do if the trailer lost brakes while going down hill while at the same time having to panic stop? Betcha that it wouldn't, just like the 3/4 ton wouldn't. Trucks are not rated to stop heavy trailers, the trailers brakes are.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

And neither is that Kenworth with a 40,000+ lb load. That's why you hope there's a runaway ramp nearby.

Lyle