Fifth wheel ins? Liability?

[arnko37]

I am confused about ins coverage. I used to have my vehicles all insured with Hartford (thru AARP) This included my new PU truck 2007 chev HHR and a 2000 Alpenlite 5th wheel. When I had bought the fifth wheel and called for coverage Hartford quoted a yearly premium of only $29. This coverage was limited to $11,500, the value of the trailer. I mentioned this on this forum and caught some flak such as" what about liability, what will you do if someone trips over a water hose while you are set up and sues you." Good question. Hartford later on gave me a huge increase(almost 50%) for no apparent reason. So I switched to State Farm. Now my 5th wheel ins is about $230 per year. I asked the agent "what if someone trips etc. am I covered?" He said no, that liability coverage comes thru your home owners policy. Something sounds wrong here. Can any shed some light on this? Thanks

[dave_smith1]

We've had all our trailers insured by Farmers with a rider attached to the truck's coverage. Costs about $150-175 more. Had two claims in the past 10+ years which were completely covered:

1. Damage to the truck & trailer #1 when high winds ripped the fiberglass tonneau off my truck (parked, unhitched, truck was facing trailer) & it caved in my hood before crashing into the trailer. About $2500 total.

2. Damage to front corner of trailer #2 when some idiot cut the turn too tight in the storage yard & clipped the nose. About $4000 total (had to replace cracked front cap). The idiot never fessed up BTW.

Not sure this answers OP's question but is real-world experience. Farmer's was fair in both cases.

[wandering1]

Have you ever thought to ask your insurance agent to explain how your house liability ins covers your 5th wheel liability?

[tejasgran]

I posted earlier about the answers to some of my questions from our agent, she just called me back and said she needed to clarify more (Hartford AARP):

if the trailer is unhitched and someone falls and hurts themselves, it is our homeowners policy that covers the incident

if someone breaks into the trailer at the storage facility and steals our belongs that are stored in it, the auto policy covers up to its limit and then after that the home owners policy kicks in

My earlier post:

We have our vehicles and fifth wheel covered with Hartford AARP, also. Our home is also covered with them written, of course, on a separate policy. After reading this post, I sent my agent the scenarios listed above and included one about the loss of personal property in the RV due to theft. She just called me back and said the answer was easy; under all cases it is covered by the auto policy.

A few years ago when we wrote the policy, I was told our personal effects were covered under the home. I too am confused.

[tejasgran]

We have our vehicles and fifth wheel covered with Hartford AARP, also. Our home is also covered with them written, of course, on a separate policy. After reading this post, I sent my agent the scenarios listed above and included one about the loss of personal property in the RV due to theft. She just called me back and said the answer was easy; under all cases it is covered by the auto policy.

A few years ago when we wrote the policy, I was told our personal effects were covered under the home. I too am confused.

[outwestbound]

thirteen wrote:
Read your policy. It's funny my agent just told me he has no idea exactly what the coverage is on the thousand of types he sells. He said he doesn't read the policies. Frankly, he couldn't memorize all that anyway. One company could say they cover RV at home, then at camp but not hitched. Other policy could say it is covered in all scenarios. He gave me one, I read it, then I said it doesn't cover everything I want so he just got me a different company and that has what I want. It's unfortunate but you have to spend hours reading these things because they are all different. Then every year you get a renewal and it excludes some coverage you had the year prior but if you don't read it you don't know. Just happened to a friend that had $25 med pay coverage doubled to $50k if wearing seatbelt. Then renewal eliminated the doubling (and increased the premium). Car accident resulted in $55k in med bills and only $25k covered because he didn't read the renewal. And was only two months into renewal or would have had $50k covered of the bills and only been responsible for the last $5k.

Great advice to read the policies! America's strong judicial system is a major contributor to how a rag tag group of immigrants economically surpassed the world in just a couple hundred years. But it's a two edged sword. Clearly, one size doesn't fit all and some folks have more to loose than others. But, it's a shame when honest folks believe they are covered, when push come to shove in a major accident, they are not. You're example was simply medical expenses, but what about the $1.5 million liability claim and crazy punitive damage awards that juries are doling out these days!

I'm at the beginning of looking into this, but am somewhat relieved after a conversation with Blue Sky insurance in Florida, as recommended by a kind poster. Blue Sky sent me the actual application and policy forms, various endorsements, etc. so I can evaluate the USE that's being insured and any EXCEPTIONS that are not. These are legal contracts; very specific and as you say, subject to constant manipulation by carriers each year to improve their "yield - the money they make) on their risk pools. Nothing new here; they've been doing this since the early 1900s.

Here is an issue I'm researching on my own within the context of going FULL TIME. It has to do with additional liability, if any, for an insured breaching their own RV manufacturer's product warranties. If an insurance policy excepts (says it wont' cover) liability claims if those claims arose out of the insured's failure to follow proper operating procedures, or some such other vague legal ease statement, then does the insurance company (on a big $1 million liability claim where details MATTER) have to pay out IF the insured did in fact breach his/her manufacturer's warranty?

I say this because, in reading forums, it seems (and I may be completely wrong) that some fifth wheel manufacturer's warranties may be written specifically to EXCLUDE or EXCEPT coverage IF the insured uses the product "FULL TIME", as full time is defined in their warranties. I may be over reacting, but I'd hate a breach of warranty to used by an insurer as a means to avoid paying a claim. I downloaded a warranty from a manufacturer and will read it soon.

Still researching. Sorry for the long post.

[thirteen]

Read your policy. It's funny my agent just told me he has no idea exactly what the coverage is on the thousand of types he sells. He said he doesn't read the policies. Frankly, he couldn't memorize all that anyway. One company could say they cover RV at home, then at camp but not hitched. Other policy could say it is covered in all scenarios. He gave me one, I read it, then I said it doesn't cover everything I want so he just got me a different company and that has what I want. It's unfortunate but you have to spend hours reading these things because they are all different. Then every year you get a renewal and it excludes some coverage you had the year prior but if you don't read it you don't know. Just happened to a friend that had $25 med pay coverage doubled to $50k if wearing seatbelt. Then renewal eliminated the doubling (and increased the premium). Car accident resulted in $55k in med bills and only $25k covered because he didn't read the renewal. And was only two months into renewal or would have had $50k covered of the bills and only been responsible for the last $5k.

[kakampers]

We use Blue Sky also...we carry 300k liability which is enough to allow us the added coverage of a 1 million dollar umbrella policy. Our coverage is expressly for fulltime use, which is what Blue Sky specializes in....Blue Sky is under written by RLI which writes our umbrella also....

[outwestbound]

MTPockets1 wrote:

outwestbound wrote:
I have an insurance questions regarding full timing vs. anything other than full timing (weekend, etc.). I'm really only concerned with liability (slip and fall) as well as my own negligence such as injuring folks on the highway in an auto accident. I'm not willing to be in violation of insurance contracts (policies) because I've found that when claims get big, insurance companies will lawyer up and do anything they can to avoid paying a claim.

As someone planning to be a FULL TIMER, are the available insurance companies covering this use of an RV (5er)? I haven't reviewed any of these contracts yet, but if any exclusions exist for what the policy defines as full timing, that would be of great interest to me. I don't intend to have any sticks and brick home; just a mail service address, and I suspect this would be the means of defining a full timer. I gather this use also has implications for RV manufacturer warranties.

Thoughts?

.

We full time and found Blue Sky Insurance by reading forum posts. We now use Blue Sky who specializes in full timer insurance providing the proper liabilities coverage. We also have items in a storage facility which Blue Sky covers as well. For contact you can find them on the internet.

MTPockets1, Thanks. I'm also going to have a Florida domicile. I'll contact the insurance carrier you mentioned. What I'd like to see is the application, which is of course incorporated into the policies by reference. In particular, I want to see exactly what USE is being insured. Also, these uses must be insured up to a liability limit (usually around $500,000) that will be suitable to put an umbrella (or excess insurance) over the top of. All in, I typically ride with about $3.0 million in liability for auto related matters. Stripped down insurance products with arbitrarily low payout thresholds for risks the carrier either doesn't have expertise in underwriting or doesn't want to take the risk on would give me pause in moving forward with the "full time" plan for next year.

With a 1.5 million full timers out there, I'd imagine it's all good.

Thanks

[outwestbound]

arnko37 wrote:
I am confused about ins coverage. I used to have my vehicles all insured with Hartford (thru AARP) This included my new PU truck 2007 chev HHR and a 2000 Alpenlite 5th wheel. When I had bought the fifth wheel and called for coverage Hartford quoted a yearly premium of only $29. This coverage was limited to $11,500, the value of the trailer. I mentioned this on this forum and caught some flak such as" what about liability, what will you do if someone trips over a water hose while you are set up and sues you." Good question. Hartford later on gave me a huge increase(almost 50%) for no apparent reason. So I switched to State Farm. Now my 5th wheel ins is about $230 per year. I asked the agent "what if someone trips etc. am I covered?" He said no, that liability coverage comes thru your home owners policy. Something sounds wrong here. Can any shed some light on this? Thanks

May I please confirm, your USE is not full-time? Correct? You're a weekender or short trip type of user?

[MTPockets1]

outwestbound wrote:
I have an insurance questions regarding full timing vs. anything other than full timing (weekend, etc.). I'm really only concerned with liability (slip and fall) as well as my own negligence such as injuring folks on the highway in an auto accident. I'm not willing to be in violation of insurance contracts (policies) because I've found that when claims get big, insurance companies will lawyer up and do anything they can to avoid paying a claim.

As someone planning to be a FULL TIMER, are the available insurance companies covering this use of an RV (5er)? I haven't reviewed any of these contracts yet, but if any exclusions exist for what the policy defines as full timing, that would be of great interest to me. I don't intend to have any sticks and brick home; just a mail service address, and I suspect this would be the means of defining a full timer. I gather this use also has implications for RV manufacturer warranties.

Thoughts?

.

We full time and found Blue Sky Insurance by reading forum posts. We now use Blue Sky who specializes in full timer insurance providing the proper liabilities coverage. We also have items in a storage facility which Blue Sky covers as well. For contact you can find them on the internet.

[Duck]

Always read your policy to make sure what the agent tells you are correct.
Don

[outwestbound]

I have an insurance questions regarding full timing vs. anything other than full timing (weekend, etc.). I'm really only concerned with liability (slip and fall) as well as my own negligence such as injuring folks on the highway in an auto accident. I'm not willing to be in violation of insurance contracts (policies) because I've found that when claims get big, insurance companies will lawyer up and do anything they can to avoid paying a claim.

As someone planning to be a FULL TIMER, are the available insurance companies covering this use of an RV (5er)? I haven't reviewed any of these contracts yet, but if any exclusions exist for what the policy defines as full timing, that would be of great interest to me. I don't intend to have any sticks and brick home; just a mail service address, and I suspect this would be the means of defining a full timer. I gather this use also has implications for RV manufacturer warranties.

Thoughts?

[Seattle_Lion]

My insurance company, Geico, says that liability on the road is covered under the auto policy on the truck. We have a rider that covers campground liability.

[MitchF150]

How my insurance guy explained it to me (Country Insurance) is that the TT is indeed covered while it's physically attached to the truck under the trucks policy..

Once the trailer becomes unhooked for whatever reason, it's on it's own and would need it's own coverage.

It's interesting what's been said about home owners ins covering it while camped, but in my case, the ins guy said my home policy only covers it when it's physically on the homes property.

His examples were like this..

Scenario 1. Traveling down the road towing the trailer, I turn too sharp and hit a parked car with the trailer. Truck ins covers this.

Scenario 2. Traveling down the road towing the trailer, the trailer becomes unhitched from the truck and before it stops, it hits a car. Trailers liability ins would cover this. (if no liability ins on trailer, I'm stuck with the bill... Truck ins would not cover this)

Scenario 3. Trailer parked at home. Tree falls on it. Home policy covers.

Scenario 4. Trailer parked at home. Somehow it rolls off of my property into the street and hits a car. Trailer liab ins covers.

Scenario 5. Trailer parked at camp site. Somehow it rolls away and hits a car. Trailer liab ins covers.

I'm sure there are a couple more, but I'm just saying that's how it was explained to me by MY ins guy...

Your state/insurance guy might be different, so you'll need to find out what specifically works on your end.

My additional liab ins on the trailer only added around $30/yr.. I think I only pay around $150/yr to full coverage on my TT.

Mitch