First 5er, Weight Questions

[FilthyPlumber]

Picking up my first 5th wheel in a couple weeks.

2004 National Rage'n Toy Hauler
-30ft
-UVW: 8160 lbs
-Carrying Capacity: 4867 lbs
- GVWR: 13,920 lbs
75 gal fresh water tank, 15 gal LPG, not sure on fuel tank size.
(dealer is going to call me tomorrow with the the unloaded pin weight)

Tow Vehicle:
2008 Dodge Ram 2500HD Quad Cab Short Bed
-6.7 Cummins TD
-6 speed auto
-3.73 rear end
-Factory Engine brake
-Prodigy P2 Electric Brake controller
-Truck is completely stock
-12,900 lbs Max Trailer
-2060 lbs Payload
-6010 GAWR (rear)
-20,000 GCWR
Planning on taking my truck to the scale in the next week or so to get a base weight with just myself and a full tank plus the weight on the rear axle.

Water tank will never be full when traveling (minimal until I arrive to location with hookups or get closer to camp site), when camping with friends I will be empty with just myself and my lady (gear will be in separate truck), When traveling to Idaho It will be just myself (maybe the lady as well) and my 500 lb Harley in the back along with cloths and such. Is 1800 lbs a reasonable estimate of added weight or is that lowballing?

I'd Like to keep the trailer at 10k or less. That gives me the 1500-2500 tongue weight at 15-25%. I really hope it's closer to the 15-20% range. I know that has a lot to do with loading. I'm also waiting on the dealer to give me the pin weight thats on the trailer. Once I have that I will be able to calculate the UVW pin weight.

Air Bags are next on the list.

Thanks for any info and opinions!


**3/22/17 UPDATE: RAWR: 6010 lbs, RAW: 2960 lbs. Gross: 7400**

[IdaD]

As I read OP's post he's talking about a 30' long fifth wheel that may weigh 10-10.5k lbs loaded. I'm not sure how that's outside the wheelhouse of his truck.

[Lantley]

We are all dealing with imaginary figures and coming up with imaginary answers. What is the actual loaded weight of the trailer? No guesses, or assumptions. Avoid using those notoriously low brochure weights. Even at 10K that's a 2500 pin weight.

[Cummins12V98]

Wild Card wrote:
Go buy a spring pack for a 3500

Still does not resolve the poor rating of the 17" tires @ just over 3K each.

Bags and newer 18" RAM tires and wheels should do the job.

[jerem0621]

Yep, he has a heavy GVWR but he isn't loading rocks or multiple UTV's. He is loading a 500 lb Harley. Yea if he loads to GVWR then I agree he will find the day that it doesn't haul so well. My dads big fiver had an UVW around 11.500 lbs...the OP's fiver is 8200 lbs dry. Loaded up he should be around 10k Ish.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[eHoefler]

Empty or lightly loaded garage will cause the pin weight to be higher than loaded heavey.

[JIMNLIN]

We have a toy hauler forum....ask the mod to move you over there. I would bet someone over there has the same trailer/truck combo and has 1st hand experience how the combo works.

The trailer has a 13900 GVWR and a 4867 CCC = around 9000 lbs dry weight.
Dodge gives your truck a 6010 RAWR that will be carrying all the pin weight and other gear in the bed. Once you get the trucks actual scaled rear axle weights then you will know how much load in the bed it can carry. These trucks can have 3000-3400 lb rear axle payloads all depending on actual scaled rear axle weights.

The 2500 '08 Dodge/Cummins is the same truck as the 3500 SRW. Only difference is the SRW has a upper aux over load spring pack and higher rated tires and wheels. Many 2500 Dodge/Cummins packages come with the higher rated tires and wheel as my '03 has so all the truck needs is rear suspension help such as Supersprings/air bags/Kelderman System/etc.

I pull a 11200-11400 lb 5th wheel trailer with the same '03 3rd gen Dodge My trucks rear axle weights when hooked up run in the 5300-5400 lb range depending on how much "stuff" we load.


Check out the toy hauler forum.

[MFL]

Lantley wrote:

MFL wrote:
I don't usually pay much attention to dry wts (8,160 lbs), but I think some are overlooking this entirely, and moving to worst case. With OPs 500 lb bike, he will still be under 9K. Now if you add another 2K+ of gear, normal stuff, it's still only 11K.

This TH has almost 5K CCC, that the OP states he won't be using. Even if he fills the 100 gal water, he'll still be on the short side of 12K.

IMO, this set up will work, probably some over truck GVWR, but under RAWR/tire max, GCWR. The scales will give final wts, but I expect a good towing experience.

Jerry

I agree to a point. THe first issue is you cannot trust the brochure dry weight number. What is the scaled dry weight? THe 2nd factor is the OP isn't even close on his ratings. What is his truck scaled ready to camp weight.
Based on what little factual data we actually have the 2500 3/4 ton truck is not rated for a 14K 5th wheel trailer.

Read my post again!! I have figured all wts on the high side, including trailer dry wt of 8,160 + 500 lb bike = 9K.

The OP does not have a 14K TH, which would be more than his truck could handle. Lets let the scales decide, before trying to scare OP away from what is likely a reasonable fit.

Jerry

[Lantley]

MFL wrote:
I don't usually pay much attention to dry wts (8,160 lbs), but I think some are overlooking this entirely, and moving to worst case. With OPs 500 lb bike, he will still be under 9K. Now if you add another 2K+ of gear, normal stuff, it's still only 11K.

This TH has almost 5K CCC, that the OP states he won't be using. Even if he fills the 100 gal water, he'll still be on the short side of 12K.

IMO, this set up will work, probably some over truck GVWR, but under RAWR/tire max, GCWR. The scales will give final wts, but I expect a good towing experience.

Jerry

I agree to a point. THe first issue is you cannot trust the brochure dry weight number. What is the scaled dry weight? THe 2nd factor is the OP isn't even close on his ratings. What is his truck scaled ready to camp weight.
Based on what little factual data we actually have the 2500 3/4 ton truck is not rated for a 14K 5th wheel trailer.

[MFL]

I don't usually pay much attention to dry wts (8,160 lbs), but I think some are overlooking this entirely, and moving to worst case. With OPs 500 lb bike, he will still be under 9K. Now if you add another 2K+ of gear, normal stuff, it's still only 11K.

This TH has almost 5K CCC, that the OP states he won't be using. Even if he fills the 100 gal water, he'll still be on the short side of 12K.

IMO, this set up will work, probably some over truck GVWR, but under RAWR/tire max, GCWR. The scales will give final wts, but I expect a good towing experience.

Jerry

[Wild_Card]

Go buy a spring pack for a 3500

[Lantley]

jerem0621 wrote:
My dad had a 15k wet fiver with his 03 2500 Ram QC 2WD CTD. He used it for work and towed it all over the country. He put about 30k miles on that combo. He uses a time based brake controller and a Curt 20k sliding hitch. The truck now has about 250k miles and still runs like a champ. Truck was level when hitched up.

But, he now pulls a fiver that is about 8,500 lbs dry and he is much happier. After all those miles he found the day that the wind was right and blew him all over the road with that 15k rig. He sold it shortly after that.

The old one was pretty old and he wanted a newer one. The new one hardly squats the truck.

Imho you won't even give the truck a decent workout with that tiny fiver. And that's based on real world evidence watching my Dad and his truck over the past 10 years.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

The OP's trailer is 14K loaded. In short he will exceed all his trucks towing parameters.
In the end your dad got "scared straight" and downsized his 15K trailer. What makes you think the OP's 14K GVW trailer will be so different.

[jerem0621]

My dad had a 15k wet fiver with his 03 2500 Ram QC 2WD CTD. He used it for work and towed it all over the country. He put about 30k miles on that combo. He uses a time based brake controller and a Curt 20k sliding hitch. The truck now has about 250k miles and still runs like a champ. Truck was level when hitched up.

But, he now pulls a fiver that is about 8,500 lbs dry and he is much happier. After all those miles he found the day that the wind was right and blew him all over the road with that 15k rig. He sold it shortly after that.

The old one was pretty old and he wanted a newer one. The new one hardly squats the truck.

Imho you won't even give the truck a decent workout with that tiny fiver. And that's based on real world evidence watching my Dad and his truck over the past 10 years.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[laknox]

x3. No way you have enough truck to tow something that heavy. It's not what you can pull, it's what you can =carry=. You're going to be carrying about 3k on the pin, then add you, any other passengers, full fuel, the hitch and "stuff" on top of that.

Lyle

[Old-Biscuit]

You WANT 20%-25% pin weight otherwise too light of pin causes 'chucking'

Problem is payload on 2500 is LOW

DRY pin on that trailer is 1970#.....there goes that payload

RAWR....6010#
Base weight....roughly 2600#
That leaves roughly 3400# before MAX RAWR

Keep trailer weight under 11000 and 22% pin weight....2400#

OK on RAWR .....check rear tire max load ratings
Stay under/at those and it will tow w/o issues

I tow 14K 5vr....over trucks GVWR but under RAWR and at rear tire ratings.
Great towing match.
And my tractor motor just chugged along as designed.

Get truck weighed 'camp ready' (you/fuel--passengers, stuff, hitch etc)
Then run the numbers based on 11k and 22% pin weight (even 25%)

[Second_Chance]

Fully loaded the trailer will probably have around 3,100 lbs. pin weight. You're likely going to exceed most of the parameters on the truck. The Cummins will tow it, but the combination might not be safe.

Rob