How much safety I can tow. Please help check the numbers!

[Chuck___]

I tried to find the safe tow numbers that my truck can safety handle before I purchase a newer 5th wheel. Below are some of the web sites and resources I tried to fine the correct information from.

1. My truck: 1999 Dodge Ram 2500 3/4 ton, Quad Cab 2-Wheel Drive, 5.9L, I6 Cummins Turbo Charged Diesel, Auto Trans, 3.54 rear end.
Information from the driver door: GVWR=8800; Front GAWR= 4410; Rear GAWR=6044; Tires on truck now: LT245/70 R17, Load Range E, Max Load Single=3000 lbs. Note: Several years ago I have to have the transmission rebuilt. Had it rebuilt extra heavy duty with trans. cooler.

1a. Data from truck operating manual: Note, for Auto transmission list only 4.10 alxe ratio no 3.54: GCWR=18,000, Max Trailer Wt.=12,000. For 3.54 rear end, What is the GCWR rating?

1b. Pin weight for truck: GVWR=8800 X .25=2200 lbs. Am I calculating the pin weight right?

1c. Pin weight for trailer: Max Trailer Wt. 12,000X.25= 3000 lbs.

2. Looked up information on VIN Decoder: VIN# 1B7KC2360XJ636854.

2a. Wt. Distributing Hitch-Max Trailer Wt. = 10,000 lbs.

2b. Pin weight using VIN data: Wt. Distributing Hitch-Max Trailer Wt. = 10,000X.25= 2,500 lbs.

3. Measured weight from scales:
3a. Front GVWR= 3,880 Rear GVWR= 2,720 Total weighted truck @ scale=6,600.

3b. Pin weight: GVWR=8,800-scale total weight6,600=2,200

Summary: So want numbers do I believe? How heavy of a 5th wheel can I safety tow? Please show me if I am calculating Pin weight the right way and other calculations. What is the heaviest 5th wheel I should pull; dry weight and GCWR weight of a trailer?

You look up different web site and you’ll get different numbers! I know I need to take into account the weight of the driver; plus passages and extra weight in the tow truck. Could be an extra 600 pounds off the pin weight calculations. Also not to go by Dry Weight of the trailer. Got to figure in water weight of 8 lbs. per gallon and extra weight of food and supplies. Could weigh up to or more than 1,500 lbs. to 2,000 lbs. additional weight in the trailer.

PS: Like to buy a used 2007 Mobile Suite Model 32 TK3 a local person has. Dry weight is advertised @ 11,500 lbs. But, Luxury 2007 Mobile Suites 32 foot fifth wheel self-contained very clean with only 5,000 miles is in my opinion way over priced at $54,999.00. Just a pipe dream!

[Greentreena]

rhagfo wrote:
I have found the opposite to be true, older trucks had stronger stiffer springs, new trucks have softer springs.

I noticed that too, my 99 2500 didn't sag at all with my current 5th while my 08 3500 does a bit.

[rhagfo]

hbillsmith wrote:
A couple of thoughts. You will need aibags on the rear for a truck that old. They weight 35#. You can keep your hitch weight down with an Andersen Ultimate Aluminum (about 100# less than others and good for short beds). Any fiver for you will require you to be prudent on storage bin management. Use 20# propane tanks not 30# to save weight. Lastly, like said before, focus on 1/2 ton towable.

Wow, that is a blanket statement, is that because you have bags? I tow a slightly larger 5er than you with my 2001 RAM 2500 and do just great without bags. I don't even engage the upper overloads! about 5,500# on a 6,084# axle.
I have found the opposite to be true, older trucks had stronger stiffer springs, new trucks have softer springs.
Without bags our combination at about 19,500# GCVW rides smooth even on concrete roads and bridge transitions.

[filthy_beast]

ramgunner wrote:

filthy beast wrote:
I guess I am old fashioned, I like to stick with the GVWR and not just the GAWR. I also do not agree with all the "that is the same as on the ________ truck so you will be ok" statements. But that is just me. I think it is misleading to tell people those numbers on the truck don't really mean anything.

I absolutely agree.

A lot of the time it sounds like fact instead of someones opinion.

[ramgunner]

filthy beast wrote:
I guess I am old fashioned, I like to stick with the GVWR and not just the GAWR. I also do not agree with all the "that is the same as on the ________ truck so you will be ok" statements. But that is just me. I think it is misleading to tell people those numbers on the truck don't really mean anything.

I absolutely agree.

[Greentreena]

I had a 1999 Dodge quad cab 2500 LB auto 4x4 v10 towing my current trailer about (11k fully loaded) and I swapped out the 3.55 gears in favour of 4.10s. That made a world of difference as I tow in a mountainous area. I believe the V10s and diesels had similar hp & torque ratings in this era and I am of the opinion 11 000 lbs was at the max for my comfort level with that truck.

[JIMNLIN]

lawrosa wrote:

Information from the driver door: GVWR=8800; Front GAWR= 4410; Rear GAWR=6044;

3. Measured weight from scales:
3a. Front GVWR= 3,880 Rear GVWR= 2,720 Total weighted truck @ scale=6,600.

6044 rear - 2720 scale weight = 3324 lbs. Thats your payload. Thats pin, people cargo etc...

X2.
Just stay under the trucks 6084 RAWR unless you beef the rear suspension and higher rated wheels and tires.
One of my previous '01 Dodge/Cummins 235/460 engine with the 3.54 axle/47RE tranny had a 9800 lb tow rating. The 4.10 gears were much preferred with this tranny/gear ratio.

Now a trailer.
A 11500 lb dry weight trailer will be to much for your older truck. Actual weight may be closer to 13000 + lbs after loading it...... and 2600-3000 pin lb.
My 11200 lb 5er has 2200 lbs of pin weight depending on how we load the trailer.
Because of the low performance of those older trucks.....weak auto tranny.......and your low performing 3.54 axle I would look at dry trailer weights in the 9k-10k range. Wet and road ready your looking at 11k or 12k trailer which can have 2000-2500 lb pin weights.

[wilber1]

I used to own a 2001 truck the same as yours. T.he 4:10 GCWR was also 18K. The 3:54 GCWR was 2000 lbs less. The limiting factor is the auto transmission. The manual transmission trucks back then had a 20K GCWR. I towed a 10K GVWR fiver and a lot of that towing was in the mountains, so I had my truck switched over to a 4:10 ratio.

[AH64ID]

filthy beast wrote:
I guess I am old fashioned, I like to stick with the GVWR and not just the GAWR. I also do not agree with all the "that is the same as on the ________ truck so you will be ok" statements. But that is just me. I think it is misleading to tell people those numbers on the truck don't really mean anything.

It all depends on the application. On a LD 150/1500 then follow the GVWR/GAWR.

If it's a SRW HD 250/2500/350/3500 then there is a lot of wiggle room between the sticker and the actual design specs. Since GVWR/GAWR have no legal bearing in most places it's up to the driver to determine what is safe. If they are not willing to exceed GVWR/GAWR then that is fine too.. it's their money if they want to upgrade pickups.

As long as the driver is safe and smart about their decisions then it's not wrong.

Stick with what is comfortable.

kzspree320 wrote:
Your weakest link in the RAWR is the tires at 3,000# each. I have a 2008 Ram 2500 CTD with LT 265 load range E tires and they are about 3,200# each. In round numbers, the dry weight of my fiver is 10,600#, ready to camp slightly less than 12,000#, and my CAT scaled rear axle weight is about 5,600#. I am about 600 lbs under RAWR.

I am starting out about 1,000 lbs less than you and I pack pretty light. I also question the advertised dry weight of the Mobile Suites at 11,500 lbs. I can't imagine you could be less than 13,000 lbs ready to camp.

About the only way I could see this working is if you want to spend the money to put both 19.5" wheels and tires as well as upgrade the rear suspension with air bags/springs. I think this would cost $3,000 to $4,500 depending on what you want to do. That's a lot of money to put into a 1999 truck. Do some research if you think you may be interested in upgrading from LT tires to 19.5" medium duty truck tires that can be rated at over 4,500 lbs per tire. This upgrade is pretty popular for folks with truck campers.

I would probably spend the upgrade money towards trading trucks for a 3500. Good luck on whatever you decide.

While 19.5's are a GREAT way to go, they probably aren't needed for the OP unless he is dead set on a MS.. they are HEAVY!

Going with a 265/70R17 would get the OP an extra 390lbs of tire support, and going back to a 16" wheel could get him more than that. With a 16" wheel getting 6800lbs of tire isn't difficult.

[kzspree320]

Your weakest link in the RAWR is the tires at 3,000# each. I have a 2008 Ram 2500 CTD with LT 265 load range E tires and they are about 3,200# each. In round numbers, the dry weight of my fiver is 10,600#, ready to camp slightly less than 12,000#, and my CAT scaled rear axle weight is about 5,600#. I am about 600 lbs under RAWR.

I am starting out about 1,000 lbs less than you and I pack pretty light. I also question the advertised dry weight of the Mobile Suites at 11,500 lbs. I can't imagine you could be less than 13,000 lbs ready to camp.

About the only way I could see this working is if you want to spend the money to put both 19.5" wheels and tires as well as upgrade the rear suspension with air bags/springs. I think this would cost $3,000 to $4,500 depending on what you want to do. That's a lot of money to put into a 1999 truck. Do some research if you think you may be interested in upgrading from LT tires to 19.5" medium duty truck tires that can be rated at over 4,500 lbs per tire. This upgrade is pretty popular for folks with truck campers.

I would probably spend the upgrade money towards trading trucks for a 3500. Good luck on whatever you decide.

[filthy_beast]

I guess I am old fashioned, I like to stick with the GVWR and not just the GAWR. I also do not agree with all the "that is the same as on the ________ truck so you will be ok" statements. But that is just me. I think it is misleading to tell people those numbers on the truck don't really mean anything.

[AH64ID]

Don't worry about your GVWR, that generation of Dodge had very low ratings. The frame is the same frame as used on a 3500 with a 11,500 GVWR.

With a loaded truck look at the rear axle, the difference between loaded and 6000lbs is how much pin weight you can support. You can safely tow anything you can support with a 6000lb rear axle.

I would consider a small trans upgrade to internals and cooling thou, maybe a little more if you plan on adding any power.

[lawrosa]

Information from the driver door: GVWR=8800; Front GAWR= 4410; Rear GAWR=6044;

3. Measured weight from scales:
3a. Front GVWR= 3,880 Rear GVWR= 2,720 Total weighted truck @ scale=6,600.

6044 rear - 2720 scale weight = 3324 lbs. Thats your payload. Thats pin, people cargo etc...

[Cummins12V98]

For one if you need to worry about your hitch weight you need a bigger truck.

Your truck will safely tow a RV weighing about 12K loaded.

I hauled a 32.5' Avion Platinum without air bags with my 98 2500 RAM 4X4 the truck sat perfectly level and towed very nice. I knew I was at my safe limit. When the wife wanted a bigger RV the bigger truck was needed.

RAM's of that era were very under rated. My combined weight was 20.5K.

[hbillsmith]

A couple of thoughts. You will need aibags on the rear for a truck that old. They weight 35#. You can keep your hitch weight down with an Andersen Ultimate Aluminum (about 100# less than others and good for short beds). Any fiver for you will require you to be prudent on storage bin management. Use 20# propane tanks not 30# to save weight. Lastly, like said before, focus on 1/2 ton towable.