Opinion on weights for TV/5th wheel combo

[pwrplay]

Hi everyone,

We are looking into getting a new 5th wheel and are considering one that has the following specs:
Dry pin weight: 1980#
Dry Trailer weight: 10653#
GVWR is 13995#.

We have 2009 F250 CC with 6.8L V10, 4.10 Rear end with the following specs:

Payload= 2550# (as per yellow sticker)
GRAWR=6100#
GFAWR=5100#
5th Wheel towing cap = 14100#


We would load up around 1500# of gear in the trailer. With this our pin weight would be about 2500#. Right at the payload limit of the TV as you can see.
We would have about 600# of weight in the truck when camping (2 adults 2 kids and a dog etc..). This brings our payload to about 3100#

So we would be about 600# over payload cap and pretty much right at the GRAWR of 6100# plus or minus, once the trucks curb weigh is added in.

My question is would you pull this trailer with this truck? I'm probably correct is saying this is too much trailer for this truck, but I wouldn't mind hearing some real-world experiences.

I know that the RAWR is the weakest link in this set up. An F250 has a Visteon rear axle MAX rated at 6200# and the F350 has a Visteon axle MAX rated at 7280#. So realistically no amount of suspension mods are going to actually increase the amount of payload this truck can carry due to the lower rated axle on the F250.

[pwrplay]

JIMNLIN wrote:

op says+ wrote:
Funny thing, I was just doing some research and realized the same that the axles are practically the same. The one difference I did notice is the number of splines in the diff. The 6200# has 35 and the 7000# has 37 spline. How mush of a concern is this for the weight rating?

This gets talked about all the time when the the Ford 3/4 vs one ton SRW issue is brought up. According to Ford truck folks the 37 spline axle should be under the F350 DRW/F450 Dana 80 axle heading on page #71 in Fords spec website .

The F250 and F350 SRW uses the Visteon 35 spline axle.

Actually the number of spline/axles diameter has more to do with twist GCWR/tow ratings) than carrying a load (GAWR) on a full floating axle. The axle on a full floater doesn't carry the load.

Awesome, thanks for the clarification. So by the looks of it, if I add the overloads and the 4" spring block, I should be OK with the weights.

Thaks for everyone's input.

[JIMNLIN]

op says+ wrote:
Funny thing, I was just doing some research and realized the same that the axles are practically the same. The one difference I did notice is the number of splines in the diff. The 6200# has 35 and the 7000# has 37 spline. How mush of a concern is this for the weight rating?

This gets talked about all the time when the the Ford 3/4 vs one ton SRW issue is brought up. According to Ford truck folks the 37 spline axle should be under the F350 DRW/F450 Dana 80 axle heading on page #71 in Fords spec website .

The F250 and F350 SRW uses the Visteon 35 spline axle.

Actually the number of spline/axles diameter has more to do with twist GCWR/tow ratings) than carrying a load (GAWR) on a full floating axle. The axle on a full floater doesn't carry the load.

[avvidclif1]

JIMNLIN wrote:

op says wrote:
I know that the RAWR is the weakest link in this set up. An F250 has a Visteon rear axle MAX rated at 6200# and the F350 has a Visteon axle MAX rated at 7280#. So realistically no amount of suspension mods are going to actually increase the amount of payload this truck can carry due to the lower rated axle on the F250.

Ford fleet service specs shows its the exact same Visteon rear axle/brakes on the F250 and F350 SRW trucks. The F350 SRW has a higher rated rear spring pack that gives it a higher rating.

GM and Dodge/Ram use the same AAM 11.5" rear axle but give it a 6200/7000/7050/9850 RAWR with different spring packs/higher rated wheels and tires.
Visteon says the axle has a 9xxx lb rating . Ford as GM and Ram simply uses different rated rear spring packs/higher rated wheels and tires to get the rating they want.

This is how owners safely increase payload ability.

I see the V10 has up to 26000 GVWR in motor homes and tow rating up to 18000 lbs in the F450/550 trucks. Your V10 won't have any issue towing a 13k-14k trailer.

Read just a tad closer. The 2009 F350 SRW axle shaft has a different number and size of splines than the F250. I don't know why, BUT a larger axle could increase the weight rating.

[P_Kennedy]

Absolutely nothing if you don't abuse the power train by shock loading the components. Rear end gear ratio has no effect on power available, higher numerical ratios allow the available torque to lift the load from a standing start. A rear axle ratio needs to be matched to the rpm at average cruise speed loaded in the gear you plan to travel in. The best rear ratio for a Cummins I6 will not be the same for a V8 diesel and each V8 gas engine will differ with displacement and torque rating. The higher the gear ratio the better the economy empty.

[pwrplay]

JIMNLIN wrote:

op says wrote:
I know that the RAWR is the weakest link in this set up. An F250 has a Visteon rear axle MAX rated at 6200# and the F350 has a Visteon axle MAX rated at 7280#. So realistically no amount of suspension mods are going to actually increase the amount of payload this truck can carry due to the lower rated axle on the F250.

Ford fleet service specs shows its the exact same Visteon rear axle/brakes on the F250 and F350 SRW trucks. The F350 SRW has a higher rated rear spring pack that gives it a higher rating.

GM and Dodge/Ram use the same AAM 11.5" rear axle but give it a 6200/7000/7050/9850 RAWR with different spring packs/higher rated wheels and tires.
Visteon says the axle has a 9xxx lb rating . Ford as GM and Ram simply uses different rated rear spring packs/higher rated wheels and tires to get the rating they want.

This is how owners safely increase payload ability.

I see the V10 has up to 26000 GVWR in motor homes and tow rating up to 18000 lbs in the F450/550 trucks. Your V10 won't have any issue towing a 13k-14k trailer.

Funny thing, I was just doing some research and realized the same that the axles are practically the same. The one difference I did notice is the number of splines in the diff. The 6200# has 35 and the 7000# has 37 spline. How mush of a concern is this for the weight rating?

[rhagfo]

JIMNLIN wrote:

op says wrote:
I know that the RAWR is the weakest link in this set up. An F250 has a Visteon rear axle MAX rated at 6200# and the F350 has a Visteon axle MAX rated at 7280#. So realistically no amount of suspension mods are going to actually increase the amount of payload this truck can carry due to the lower rated axle on the F250.

Ford fleet service specs shows its the exact same Visteon rear axle/brakes on the F250 and F350 SRW trucks. The F350 SRW has a higher rated rear spring pack that gives it a higher rating.

GM and Dodge/Ram use the same AAM 11.5" rear axle but give it a 6200/7000/7050/9850 RAWR with different spring packs/higher rated wheels and tires.
Visteon says the axle has a 9xxx lb rating . Ford as GM and Ram simply uses different rated rear spring packs/higher rated wheels and tires to get the rating they want.

This is how owners safely increase payload ability.

I see the V10 has up to 26000 GVWR in motor homes and tow rating up to 18000 lbs in the F450/550 trucks. Your V10 won't have any issue towing a 13k-14k trailer.

The biggest driving factor in the lower rear axle rating is TIRES! Then the spring pack. stock tires on my Ram had a weight rating per tire of 3,042#, GRAWR of 6,084#! my Ram with Camper package came with tires rated at 3,415# ea. and one ton spring pack, still 8,800 GVWR!

Just looked at putting 17" wheels on the truck to put a larger rotor on the front, the 17" tires LOST 220# of capacity per tire (3,195#), I will stick with the 16" wheels and premium brake pads and parts.

Don't forget as the weight rating of the V10 goes up the differential ratio goes down (higher numerically)some into the 5.xx area.

[JIMNLIN]

op says wrote:
I know that the RAWR is the weakest link in this set up. An F250 has a Visteon rear axle MAX rated at 6200# and the F350 has a Visteon axle MAX rated at 7280#. So realistically no amount of suspension mods are going to actually increase the amount of payload this truck can carry due to the lower rated axle on the F250.

Ford fleet service specs shows its the exact same Visteon rear axle/brakes on the F250 and F350 SRW trucks. The F350 SRW has a higher rated rear spring pack that gives it a higher rating.

GM and Dodge/Ram use the same AAM 11.5" rear axle but give it a 6200/7000/7050/9850 RAWR with different spring packs/higher rated wheels and tires.
Visteon says the axle has a 9xxx lb rating . Ford as GM and Ram simply uses different rated rear spring packs/higher rated wheels and tires to get the rating they want.

This is how owners safely increase payload ability.

I see the V10 has up to 26000 GVWR in motor homes and tow rating up to 18000 lbs in the F450/550 trucks. Your V10 won't have any issue towing a 13k-14k trailer.

[P_Kennedy]

So you can drive a 30k class A with a V10 but not a truck and trailer??? If a loaded pickup sinks below level on the springs you are way overloaded??? Based on these theories all single wheel trucks with truck campers are overloaded. Tri-axle trailers transfer weight different than tandems and toy haulers load cargo weight different than regular 5th wheels. I see a lot of talk about pin weight but never see anything on here about hitch position in the truck for weight transfer to the front axle for control. All them 3/4 ton trucks with tools and equipment for work always are checked before use on a scale before use and adjusted to the manufacturers tag on the cab correct. Too much talk on here about auto self destruct for a few pounds over without looking at weight movement on the combined unit 1st. We traveled well over 100k miles with rv's, campers, flatdeck and horse trailers with 2500 diesel trucks equipped with airbags and none of the issues claimed here. A 1 ton dually will handle the weights with more stability but not everybody can have one and not everybody needs a huge rv to live in but that should be blamed on a salesman.

[WeBeFulltimers]

Old-Biscuit wrote:

JustinJohnson wrote:
I have a 37' 10" length fifth wheel of Heartland brands. As we know that this is one of the most respected manufacturers of fifth wheels in the industry. I am happy about the weight of my RV.

That sounds like a sales pitch for a dealership that sells Heartland products.

Yep, his salesman did a great job brainwashing him........"most respected"......baaaaaaahahaha!

[pwrplay]

mobilcastle wrote:
I owned a V-10 and I would not want to tow anything over 10K. Each to his own. I will say going up hills it needs to scream to get into the power band.Good luck with your decision.

Why would you not tow over 10k with the V10? Aside from the crappy fuel mileage, it's an incredibly strong powertrain. I actually like the sound of my V10 at 3000rpm. The truck sounds like it's starting to actually wake up at 2500 rpm and gets to business at about 3200.

[sk734]

I owned a V-10 and I would not want to tow anything over 10K. Each to his own. I will say going up hills it needs to scream to get into the power band.Good luck with your decision.

[pwrplay]

Thanks,
I'm not going test the limits of the truck with my family in it. Plus I like to relax once I head out on our camping trip, not worry about being overloaded. I get enough stress at work.. LOL!

[Old-Biscuit]

pwrplay wrote:

goducks10 wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:
The GVWR of that 5vr is 14K......

I tow a 14K 5vr with my 3500 Diesel 4:10........I am right at RAWR/Rear Tire MAX Load Ratings and I would NOT tow it with a 2500.

Sorry...too much trailer.

Stick with a 5vr that has a GVWR of 12K or less if using 2500

There's only 200lb difference between the 2500 and 3500 on RAWR. Tires will cure that.

OP won't be towing 14,000lbs, at the most 12,000. Certainly within the 2500 specs.

GVWR's are useless. If a 5'er has a UVW of 10,000lbs and has GVWR of 12,500 that's okay. But if a 5'er has a 10,000lb UVW and has a GVW of 14,000lbs that's not okay? GVWR is only good for figuring out how much CCC a trailer has. My 5'er has a 4315lb CCC. I will never load that much stuff in it. But using the 11,500lb GVWR and 20% pin weight rule I would be over the trucks GVW before I even set foot in it. As it is the pin is 1800lbs because the GVWR doesn't come into play. 5'er weighs 9000lbs loaded, not 11,500lbs.

Actually, with the Reflection (14K GWWR I'd be towing approx. 12500lbs when loaded. This puts 2500# on the truck just on its own not including people and dog and any gear I may have in the truck which is my Max payload.
With the Crusader (12500 GVWR) I'll be towing approx. 11300# which would give me a pin weight of about 2250#. This gives me a bit more wiggle room, because I know that the weight in the cab of the truck is not all on the rear axle,so this should keep me under the GRAWR of 6100#.

Smart Man!!
Staying within your trucks capabilities makes for a much better towing situation.
Better towing---more camping trips-------less worries
Smart Man!!!

[pwrplay]

goducks10 wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:
The GVWR of that 5vr is 14K......

I tow a 14K 5vr with my 3500 Diesel 4:10........I am right at RAWR/Rear Tire MAX Load Ratings and I would NOT tow it with a 2500.

Sorry...too much trailer.

Stick with a 5vr that has a GVWR of 12K or less if using 2500

There's only 200lb difference between the 2500 and 3500 on RAWR. Tires will cure that.

OP won't be towing 14,000lbs, at the most 12,000. Certainly within the 2500 specs.

GVWR's are useless. If a 5'er has a UVW of 10,000lbs and has GVWR of 12,500 that's okay. But if a 5'er has a 10,000lb UVW and has a GVW of 14,000lbs that's not okay? GVWR is only good for figuring out how much CCC a trailer has. My 5'er has a 4315lb CCC. I will never load that much stuff in it. But using the 11,500lb GVWR and 20% pin weight rule I would be over the trucks GVW before I even set foot in it. As it is the pin is 1800lbs because the GVWR doesn't come into play. 5'er weighs 9000lbs loaded, not 11,500lbs.

Actually, with the Reflection (14K GWWR I'd be towing approx. 12500lbs when loaded. This puts 2500# on the truck just on its own not including people and dog and any gear I may have in the truck which is my Max payload.
With the Crusader (12500 GVWR) I'll be towing approx. 11300# which would give me a pin weight of about 2250#. This gives me a bit more wiggle room, because I know that the weight in the cab of the truck is not all on the rear axle,so this should keep me under the GRAWR of 6100#.