Wheel/Brake/Bearing Question

[Poppy_s_5th_Whe]

Hi All,

I was having some poor braking on our last trip so, after scolding myself for failing to adjust the brakes or lube the bearings since we got the trailer (probably 12,000 miles ago) I decided to adjust the brakes and lube the bearings (I have the E-Z Lube bearings).

I got the trailer jacked and I noticed a lot of play in the wheel. By play I mean that if you have your hands at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock you can get a considerable amount of wobble out of the wheel. I tried both wheels on the drivers side and they both had play.

I went ahead and lubed the rear wheel first and it took a whole 12.5 oz tube before I got fresh lube coming out. I had hoped that might solve my problem but, of course, no such luck.

I went ahead and adjusted the brakes on both DS wheels but didn't lube the second wheel yet until I find out what my problem is. OR, if it is normal on a trailer to have that much play.

So my questions are
1.) is there normally some play in the wheel on trailers? (I suspect not)
2.) if not, do you think my problem is that I need entirely new bearings? (I suspect so)

I race a corvette and if my wheel has play like that, I need to replace the whole hub assembly as they do not have serviceable bearings.

[Gib3633]

Vulcaneer: If you don't like others opinions maybe you should put a list of those welcome to join in. Just for your info on full floating axles they also run in oil. My 2000 Freightliner with 17,500 rear end at 35,000 miles needed rotors. Before I dismantled just for my own curiosity I checked for freeplay in the bearings and they had slight preload. I changed seals and adjusted again with slight preload and sold truck with 105,000 miles and it went from Niagara Falls to California trouble free. Just because you don't agree doesn't make you smart and me stupid. Incidently my mechanic at International ask me how I wanted my wheel bearings adjusted after he changed a wheel speed sensor.

[wilber1]

Years ago when I was maintaining large aircraft which had their bearings mounted in the wheel hubs, when changing a wheel we torqued the retaining nut to a number I can't remember while turning the wheel to seat the bearings, then we loosened it right off. Finger tightened, then backed it off until we could install the locking bolt. They used a bolt and lock nut instead a cotter pin. Only enough grease was used pack and coat the bearing itself.

Years later when I started RV'ing, it turned out Dexter's recommended procedure is essentially the same. Go figure.

[Dave_H_M]

After reading thru this thread, the thought comes to mind that it is no winder that it seems to be common for camper wheel bearings to have problems. :S

[Vulcaneer]

Gib3633 wrote:
Much as I hate I have to ask. PS. I know fifth wheels don't have rear ends. Why is it that axle bearings NEED freeplay when Pinion bearing have a preload of 50 inch lbs of rolling torque just 3 feet from the axle bearings. Pinion bearings often last half a million miles with only a couple of oil changes. I know you can't allow the pinion to walk back and forth in the crown gear . The carrier bearings also have preload . That said my vote is with Scott G.

With thinking like that, your mechanic must love you.

[BillB3857]

Don't the pinion bearings in the rear axle also operate in a flooded oil bath? That is quite different than being grease packed.

[Gib3633]

Much as I hate I have to ask. PS. I know fifth wheels don't have rear ends. Why is it that axle bearings NEED freeplay when Pinion bearing have a preload of 50 inch lbs of rolling torque just 3 feet from the axle bearings. Pinion bearings often last half a million miles with only a couple of oil changes. I know you can't allow the pinion to walk back and forth in the crown gear . The carrier bearings also have preload . That said my vote is with Scott G.

[12th_Man_Fan]

Slownsy wrote:
There is no end play in newer lube bearings they are to be torked to 150 feet pound, the tolerances is for wear in bearings as they can not be adjusted but must be replaced.
Frank.

There is end play in the nev-r-lube bearings. However,you are correct, they are to be torqued at 150 ft lbs and this will give them the proper end play if the bearings are in good shape. If the end play is more than the recommended then the bearings should be replaced.

The problem is measuring the end play without some special tools. I check mine each year buy jacking them off the ground and checking for noise or excessive end play by hand. I you feel more than just the slightest movement then it is probably too much. Every couple of years I tear them down to check the brake pads.

[Slownsy]

MTPocketa1 I was referring to Dexters newer lube bearings and I am aware that they are 2 bearings in a cartridge and it is max play before replaisement is nessesari and not inbuilt normal play from new,
Frank.

[MTPockets1]

Slownsy wrote:
There is no end play in newer lube bearings they are to be torked to 150 feet pound, the tolerances is for wear in bearings as they can not be adjusted but must be replaced.
Frank.

.
The Dexter Neverlube bearings are not the same and do have a small axial clearance built into the bearing assembly. The torque applied to this assembly does not add any preload as it would with other typical axle bearing set up as the torque does not add pressure to the roller assembly. It's two different setups entirely. If 150 ft lbs was used on a typical axle set up you may be broke down in a couple miles.

[Slownsy]

There is no end play in newer lube bearings they are to be torked to 150 feet pound, the tolerances is for wear in bearings as they can not be adjusted but must be replaced.
Frank.

[SailingOn]

I would make one point more clear:
Dexter recommends inspecting the brakes and bearings every 12000 miles.
- Inspecting them requires looking at them, so you're going to have to clean off the old grease, inspect and then repack.
- Pumping grease into the EZ-Lube fitting does not in any way substitute for the inspection.

[2-MTnesters]

JIMNLIN wrote:
A small amount of bearing play is normal and required on a trailers axles. In fact bearing will last longer with a small bit of play. Bearings should never be tight.

This from Dexter on "bearing adjustment and play".

Bearing Adjustment and Hub Replacement
if the hub has been removed or bearing adjustment is required, the following adjustment procedure must be allowed:
1. After placing the hub, bearings, washers, and spindle nut back on the axle spindle in reverse order as detailed in the previous section on hub removal, rotate the hub assembly slowly while tightening the spindle nut to approximately 50 lbs.{t (12" wrench or pliers with full hand force).
2. Then loosen the spindle nut to remove the torque. Do not rotate the hub.
3. Finger tighten the spindle nut until just snug.
4. Back the spindle nut out slightly until the first castellation lines up with the cotter key hole and insert the cotter pin (or locking tang in the case
of E-Z Lube TM).
5. Bend over the cotter pin legs to secure the nut (or locking tang in the case ol E-Z Lube TM).
6. Nut should be free to move with only restraint being the cotter pin (or locking tang).

And proper bearing end play;

Nev-R-Lube Bearing End Play inspection.
The following lists the maximum axial end play for each of the sizes of, Nev-R-Lube bearings and the amount of tilt that can be expected, Since there are a large number of wheel and tire combinations in use on trailers, the tilt is expressed in inches per inch. The movement as measured at the tire tread can be found by the following method:
Example: if the tilt value is shown as .003" per inch and the tire measures 30" in diameter, simply multiply .003' X 30' = .090" which is the total expected movement at the tires' outer diameter.

Bearing size End play resultant tilt value
35 MM .005" axial .003'7 per inch
42 MM .006" axial .005"/ per inch
50 MM .O08" axial .004"/ per inch

the above is a snipped copy and paste from Dexters "hubs/drums and bearing" PDF

The end Play you quoted is pertaining to the Nev-R-Lube bearings which is totally different than what OP has. Op has the EZ-Lube system. Watch the video labeled Bearing Maintenance on the Dexter web site. Does NOT speak of "end play". Other interesting videos there as well.

[allen8106]

JIMNLIN wrote:
A small amount of bearing play is normal and required on a trailers axles. In fact bearing will last longer with a small bit of play. Bearings should never be tight.

This from Dexter on "bearing adjustment and play".

Bearing Adjustment and Hub Replacement
if the hub has been removed or bearing adjustment is required, the following adjustment procedure must be allowed:
1. After placing the hub, bearings, washers, and spindle nut back on the axle spindle in reverse order as detailed in the previous section on hub removal, rotate the hub assembly slowly while tightening the spindle nut to approximately 50 lbs.{t (12" wrench or pliers with full hand force).
2. Then loosen the spindle nut to remove the torque. Do not rotate the hub.
3. Finger tighten the spindle nut until just snug.
4. Back the spindle nut out slightly until the first castellation lines up with the cotter key hole and insert the cotter pin (or locking tang in the case
of E-Z Lube TM).
5. Bend over the cotter pin legs to secure the nut (or locking tang in the case ol E-Z Lube TM).
6. Nut should be free to move with only restraint being the cotter pin (or locking tang).

And proper bearing end play;

Nev-R-Lube Bearing End Play inspection.
The following lists the maximum axial end play for each of the sizes of, Nev-R-Lube bearings and the amount of tilt that can be expected, Since there are a large number of wheel and tire combinations in use on trailers, the tilt is expressed in inches per inch. The movement as measured at the tire tread can be found by the following method:
Example: if the tilt value is shown as .003" per inch and the tire measures 30" in diameter, simply multiply .003' X 30' = .090" which is the total expected movement at the tires' outer diameter.

Bearing size End play resultant tilt value
35 MM .005" axial .003'7 per inch
42 MM .006" axial .005"/ per inch
50 MM .O08" axial .004"/ per inch

the above is a snipped copy and paste from Dexters "hubs/drums and bearing" PDF

This is the way I have always adjusted my bearings when repacking or replacing. Just not with as much detail/precision. I didn't realize there was an expected "End Play".

[allen8106]

jbcason wrote:
If u used a whole tube of grease on one wheel the seal is leaking inside onto the brakes. Bearings need to be adjusted periodically. Doesn't mean they are worn out. Should pull , clean, and inspect every so often also.

I've never known bearings to need adjusting periodically??