Not to Happy with Thor or Ford

[marcdohc]

Not to Happy with Thor or Ford
Back in May of 2016 Thor sent a driver to my home in Mashpee, Massachusetts to drive the 2016 Challenger 37KT back to Indiana because the repairs needed were too much for CW in Berkley, Mass.
After repairs we're done we flew out to Indiana and drove the rig home. Some of the issues were the hydraulic system would come on in the middle of driving down the highway at speed. The windshield wipers would get tangled up. Problems with the heat. Various leaks in Windows, showers and sinks. It was another half a dozen things that I can't remember.
The main thing is that the coach drove down the road crooked. There's a few phrases for this issue, crabbing or some call it dog walking. This usually occurs after an accident, it's a giveaway that the frame is not square or the rear axle is not perpendicular to the frame.
When Thor had it last year in Indiana they sent the rig to Ford, Ford sent the rig to a company called Quality Automotive to fix the crabbing issue. The problem is due to the rear axle not being perpendicular to the frame. When the fix was being done I tried to find out the approach they were taking, Unfortunately they would not tell me. They did not eliminate the crabbing although they did get it much better.

Well, this January I noticed the handling had gotten very sloppy. I had a friend drive and I got behind the rig and could see that the crabbing had gotten just as bad if not worse than it used to be and that the coach had a lot of swaying in the rear. I called the Thor and told them about it. Knowing the issue was serious Thor sent a so-called expert to fly out the Massachusetts to check it out. He drove behind me and then he drove the unit. I asked him what he thought and his words were and I quote "It's Crooked"
Thor had me bring it to a local truck repair shop in Mass. They discovered that the leaf springs had been twisted to compensate for the crabbing and a had bent the shackles and blown out the bushings. This damage was the result of the technique that Quality Automotive used to try to make the axle perpendicular to the frame. They simply loosen the bolts Twisted the axle and then tighten the bolts putting more torque then the bushings and metal shackles could take.
Thor did pay to have this fixed, but not before they blamed the damage on me. I installed a super steer track bar to help eliminate the absurd amount of rear sway the coach had and they tried to say the damage was caused by the trac bar. The mechanic told me there was no stress on the bar this problem was created by the technique that was used to adjust the axle. Thor decided to add a leaf spring on each side two help stiffen up the sloppy handling.
Unfortunately now the ride is ridiculous, the rear end is two inches higher than the front end in this a ridiculous amount of body roll and sway now that the center of gravity is even higher. Thor has refused to pay the money to fix this problem that they've created.
Not only do I still have the crabbing problem, I now have a RV that every time I want to set it up I have to lift the front wheels off the ground to inches just to get her level. My wife refuses to drive in it because she doesn't feel confident in the drive as well as it makes her sick from all the body roll.
Thor says it's a Ford problem, Ford says it's an altered chassis. Dealing with Thor has been frustrating and unrewarding.
I consider this the worst purchase of my life. I read a lot of bad reviews about Thor, I decided that there probably were many happy people that never left reviews.
Marc DeNardo

[marcdohc]

I appreciate the interest and empathy. I understand that there might be some doubt. Truth is a year and a half ago I took on a part time job. It's called dealing with Thors warranty department. It doesn't pay much but it's only 3-5 hours a week, but sometimes as many as 10! Kidding aside, which it's amazing I can still kid about this It literally keeps me up nights. To answer a few questions, Thor said they replaced the Hydo unit when it was in Indiana. It didn't come on when it wasn't supposed to for about 7 month's, but then it went back to it's old tricks. Just picture your family on board doing 65 mph at night and the pad suddenly comes on. What a shocker, you feel like you swallowed your lung. Regarding the extended chassis, Thor extended the chassis, after the rear axle. Regarding my local shop that did the spring work, I don't want to mention their name due to the fact I need them as this "issue" progresses. There service manager says the house is part of the problem. He said its either the house wasn't set right or the walls are not square. He said "believe me, they know" He said when this thing was in front of them they could see what I see. Thats when I remembered the rear cap. When I got home from Indiana last June I was washing my rig when I noticed the paint lines didn't line up at the rear where the cap meets the walls. After further inspection I noticed the cap was raised of the roof a 1/2" and that there was new sealer around the ladder bracket. I called thor and the service manager said " my guys did that on there own, I didn"t authorize that" I was flabbergasted! I got an estimate for paint that Thor thought was too high and I ended up settling for 1/3 of that price just to make it go away. As you can assume at that point I had had it. Also, last month after the local shop installed the xtra springs I brought my rig To Minute Man Ford in Mass. for an alignment. They set the toe on the front, he said the rear is at .042 and they allow .050 and it's not adjustable. He said He can see its off. He said Its an altered chassis and they don"t want to touch it. I offered to pay and he said no. When I got home I wet the tire and drove straight to leave wet tire tracks. What I saw was mind boggeling. the right set of prints were 3 tire mark's side by side. The center being the front tire. The left set of prints had only 2 mark's, a left a 6" space in the middle and a right mark. It blew me away, within Ford's spec my butt. It turns out the front tire rides on the same track as the left rear. Craziest tire marks I have ever seen. I know long post. Sorry, its a long story. More to come, Marc DeNardo aka marcdohc

[wildmanbaker]

ga80486 wrote:
I wonder if the chassis was lengthened or shortened before the coach was built? I think that Newmar does something like that. Maybe others do too?

If so, done incorrectly that certainly could throw the geometry off.

Lengthening the frame will not cause it to go out of square. The frames are jig built, and automated. I do not know the actual process, but any number of things could happen to have the basic structure out of square, and slip through inspection. The MH itself could be square, but on top of an out-of-square chassis. Again, I do not know the actual problem, just WAEGing.

[Cranemec]

Effy wrote:
I doubt there are Thor employees on this site. Maybe I am wrong but it's run by GS who owns CW so...

In any event, I apologize for my initial post, after re-reading your post I understand I was out of line and jumped the gun on a troll assumption. Please try and understand that usually when we see a post like that from a brand new member on an issue that's a year old, it's a sign of a troll trying to slander a brand or dealer. From your last post this is likely how CW and Thor view it as well. I have no affiliation with either.

I am sorry for my snarky reply to your post.

I do empathize with your situation and it seems that you have tried to work it out via Thor, the dealer and Ford and I hope you come to a satisfactory conclusion.

In any event, welcome to the forum and I hope you stick around. Lots of folks on here are a wealth of knowledge and you can stand to learn a lot.

Think again. I had made a post on another forum about a GOOD experience I had with Coachmen. The service manager sent me more than I needed accidentally, actually an entire set of drawings for my Mirada.
I thanked him on the public forum and joked that if anyone wanted to build their own Mirada, I had the plans. I was never serious and it was all said tongue in cheek.
2 days later I got a call from the service manager asking that I remove the post as the VP of the Coachmen division has seen the post and was not happy with his SM.
Trust me, someone with each manufacturer is reading all of these RV boards.

[ga80486]

I wonder if the chassis was lengthened or shortened before the coach was built? I think that Newmar does something like that. Maybe others do too?

If so, done incorrectly that certainly could throw the geometry off.

[wa8yxm]

First.. A question: YOu spoke long about the crabbing but not the hydraulics

Were the hydraulics fixed, ANy further issues with HOUSE systems?

The reason I ask: House systems are generally Thor's or the 3rd party that designed and built the system (IE: LCI (power gear and many other companies)

But the Crabbing: That is FORD. And you are quite right to include them in the subject line... As for the work done by "Quality" Well.. That's Their idea of Quality (Kind of low in my book).. Bending the springs is NOT how you fix that.

[jplante4]

Marc - which local truck shop did you use? Southeast Truck Center in Sagamore has a good rep but they don't like to work on motor homes.

[soren]

Effy wrote:
I doubt there are Thor employees on this site. Maybe I am wrong but it's run by GS who owns CW so...

.

Sadly, there may be posts from employees of firms that are taking a beating on a thread. It's becoming more common, as companies become more tech. and social media savvy. Oddly enough, it's nothing new here either. Way back when I first was active here, the corporate office of a large campground chain was really handling unhappy customers in a bizarre way. They had a few REALLY bad properties out there, and a small number of franchisees who were awful to customers. The customer complained on here, and directly to corporate. The odd part is that corporate would then forward letters and/or emails directly to their franchisee, who would then attack the customer, with nasty calls and letters. It was at total dumpster fire in corporate PR. As things heated up, one new member knew WAY too much about behind the scenes info. at corporate, as the vigorously defended the indefensible. I called them out as a shill, and another ex-employee confirmed it, naming names.

Another example here is a current member who, in the past, would search any thread where a member had issues with anything related to the Camping World empire, then attack the OP, no matter how rational and reasonable the issue was. Your new rig has been is the shop for five months and the dealer has been a total jerk about everything? This guy would attack the poster for whining. A possible CW employee? Who knows. But really bizarre behavior from somebody who really had little sense of right and wrong, and a real agenda to push.

[azrving]

Tinstar wrote:
Effy, I imagine some folks didn't read all the way through (like Pirate) and were not intentionally piling on. You've got too much invested to leave because of this. Grab another Snickers.

LOL BAAAWWAAAAA

The internet. If we were all sitting around having a cocktail or two none of this stuff would happen. Everything would be different 🙂

[Tinstar]

Effy, I imagine some folks didn't read all the way through (like Pirate) and were not intentionally piling on. You've got too much invested to leave because of this. Grab another Snickers.

[Effy]

Done

[hanko]

Effy wrote:
Welcome to the forum.

You know you could always open up with "Hi, I am new here, I have such and such rig and have a questions/issues"

So what's he point of the post? Is this a slanderous first post, or do you need a shoulder to cry on?

Sorry I am a little leary of brand new members, first time posters who open up with guns blazing about a unit they bought over a year ago. Makes little sense, other than "my warranty is out now so I am going to make slanderous posts on various forums". Thinking maybe you could have joined here over a year ago when you first bought it. otherwise it's sort of troll-ish.

We just had one yesterday that got deleted.

And chassis issues are covered under Ford which carries a 3/36, not Thor.

Pretty crappy post. I thought you were leaving? Show a little compassion to folks that are having major issues like this.

[Pirate1]

Effy wrote:
Welcome to the forum.

You know you could always open up with "Hi, I am new here, I have such and such rig and have a questions/issues"

So what's he point of the post? Is this a slanderous first post, or do you need a shoulder to cry on?

Sorry I am a little leary of brand new members, first time posters who open up with guns blazing about a unit they bought over a year ago. Makes little sense, other than "my warranty is out now so I am going to make slanderous posts on various forums". Thinking maybe you could have joined here over a year ago when you first bought it. otherwise it's sort of troll-ish.

We just had one yesterday that got deleted.

And chassis issues are covered under Ford which carries a 3/36, not Thor.

deleted because i did not see later appology.

[timmac]

marcdohc wrote:

The main thing is that the coach drove down the road crooked. There's a few phrases for this issue, crabbing or some call it dog walking. This usually occurs after an accident, it's a giveaway that the frame is not square or the rear axle is not perpendicular to the frame.
When Thor had it last year in Indiana they sent the rig to Ford, Ford sent the rig to a company called Quality Automotive to fix the crabbing issue. The problem is due to the rear axle not being perpendicular to the frame. When the fix was being done I tried to find out the approach they were taking, Unfortunately they would not tell me. They did not eliminate the crabbing although they did get it much better.

Marc DeNardo

Maybe take it to a truck alignment shop in your area and have it aligned and see what they say, I had some crabbing on my 08 Bounder {ford} and after a good computerized alignment shop it goes straight down the road and only cost $175.00

Also out of alignment is not always caused by a accident.

[Tntman]

Marc,
I had issues with Ford and Fleetwood a decade ago. It was resolved thru the Federal Magnuson Moss Consumer Protection Act.look it up, has specific resolutions to a "lemon coach". A contingency basis would be preferable. Good luck. Until we stand up to these manufacturers, they will keep trying to avoid their responsibility and keep sending out junk.

[dougrainer]

marcdohc wrote:
My intentions was not to cause a scene. I just wanted to vent and share.
Thor called me today and said they weren't too happy with my post. After reading some of the responses I think they actually might be Thor's employees responses. I'm very glad that my story has reached back to them. Marc DeNardo $120,000 12-01-15 American Rv Grand Rapids Michigan.

Kind of Ironic isn't it. Thor is NOT happy with your post. Yet, they do not seem to understand WHY you posted and you are understandably NOT happy with THOR or your RV. Unlike others that post when they have minor problems and blast everyone without giving the Dealer or OEM a chance to do the right thing. YOU have given Thor and Ford MORE than enough bites at the Apple to get you whole again. So, you post your list and timeline. Unless You have mislead everyone, Thor should READ what you posted and realize that they have dropped the ball big time. Don't know your laws, but in Texas you would be a prime candidate for lemon Law on your RV. Doug