Brake systems- Motohome Magazine

[F1bNorm]

Just curious. This month's issue of Motorhome mag has an article on towd brake systems. There is no mention of the NSA Ready Brake surge units. To my recollection, there never has been. Ready Brake seems popular here on RV Net (which is why I bought one). Is it because NSA doesn't run full page advertisements? If yes, it makes me question the slant on all their product reviews.

Norm

[RJsfishin]

I'd like to know under what accident condition blame is going to change
as to whether or not you have toad brakes.

If you rear end anyone, its "your" fault, brakes or no brakes.
If you T-bone anyone because you ran a stop sign, its "your" fault, brakes or no brakes.
If you T-bone anyone that ran the stop sign, its the runner's fault, brakes or no brakes.
If you headon anyone crossing over the line, its their fault, brakes or not.

But thats too simple for some.

[D_E_Bishop]

mowermech wrote:

D.E.Bishop wrote:
Just curious, if as I believed it is, CA auxiliary brake law is a performance law, ie, Must be able to stop in X - Distance at Y - Speed and I can pass that test, am I legal to tow without an auxiliary brake system in the other 48 continental states?

As those of us from CA know, the test is very expensive to administer and, therefore, most combinations of RV and Towed are safe in CA. If I were in say, be in New York and towing my Sidekick without an auxiliary system, does NY law rule or does CA law rule.

Just wondering, not worried, just wondering.

Legal in other states? Maybe.
CA is a little more liberal in that the distance within which you must be able to stop is 45 feet, IIRC. Many other states require stopping within 40 feet, as does FMVSS.
At least one state requires that the driver of a towing unit must have control over the brakes on the towed unit. All electric brake controllers that I know of have a manual control on them. Surge brakes, however, have only minimal driver control. Does this mean that surge type brakes are illegal in that state? I don't know if it has ever been brought out in court.
Generally speaking, Reciprocity Agreements between the various states cover only driver's licensing, vehicle registration, and insurance. Equipment rules (brakes, tires extending beyond the body, lights, etc.) are not covered by Reciprocity. So, technically, if your state requires brakes on only one axle of a tandem axle trailer, that trailer would be illegal to use in Montana. In your example, if the braking performance law in New York requires stopping within 40 feet, and you met the CA guidelines by being able to stop in 43.5 feet, you would not be legal in New York.

This post is not intended to start an argument, it is just what I have learned since my post on 11-19-17. mowermech is correct regarding reciprocity laws. Equipment laws are generally the providence of the Federal Government and while I have not been able to verify the following, it has been indicated that if a motorized vehicle meets the braking laws of the registered state that those laws apply for the entire country.

Regarding braking tests, the legal requirements are so complex that it is ridicules. In CA, the law states from 20 mph an RV towing a motorized vehicle must stop within 50 at a speed of 20 mph. Highway traffic and safety engineers over the years have developed general guidelines that are accepted as standards. Those guidelines set certain standards of street conditions, tire type and weather and on and on. So those standards say that an average car can or should be able to stop at 20 mph within 19 feet. Their standards do not suggest that a heavy vehicle like a 30 foot RV can perform at that level. The State of California must agree because they allow 2.5 times that standard for a RV that is probably at 3 times the weight of an average car.

A LEO speaking in another forum has stated that in determining cause and responsibility, laws other than the stopping distance will be used in assigning blame because the exact conditions that existed at the time of an accident cannot be duplicated later, if at all. That is one reason a LEO's testimony is allowed to be based in part "On his professional opinion".

The California VC section involved is Sec. 26454.

With all due respect to everyone, common sense in not so common and each of us must make our own decisions and be held accountable for those decisions.

We are changing toweds again and the cost of a supplemental braking system will be included in the purchase price, including the outrageous installation cost of approximately $700. So as far as I am concerned, it has been laid to rest.

[eheading]

Actually I am disappointed in both FMCA's and Motorhome's handling of the supplemental brake issue. They both say categorically that you should never tow anything without supplemental brakes. However I live in Florida where you are not required to have brakes if your "trailer" is under 3000 pounds. Secondly, my toad (2800#) plus my loaded motorhome, TOTAL weighs 1000 pounds less than the GVWR for my motorhome alone. The chassis manufacturer says if the total load does not exceed the GVW for the motorhome the chassis is perfectly capable of safely stopping your combination. WHile I realize that there are probably a small percentage of people who meet this criteria, it seems to me that the magazines have just joined the tow brake manufacturers in stating "everyone needs supplemental braking".

In addition, I agree with others, I think the Ready Brake is a great tow brake system, and I think it is a crying shame that it is not included in the review of brake systems.

Ed Headington

[irishtom29]

If the weight of the tow vehicle and toad are under the GVWR of the tow vehicle then the tow vehicle brakes are capable of stopping the whole shebang adequately. For the F-53 chassis Ford recommends using an auxiliary toad brake if the weight of tow vehicle and toad exceed the GVWR, which makes sense. My fully loaded coach and toad exceed the GVWR so I use an auxiliary brake.

[down_home]

I caan't quote chapter and verse but if over 4,000lbs the trailer or toad orr towed has to have an ax brake system.
We have always had one even on the light Saturn.
We have the Roadmster air brake system.
Next one I think will be the Air Force1. It should be cheaper and won't have to install and uninstall the cylinder each time.
In the sudden panic stops that we have had to make such as when a semi came over on us, the braking on our towed Edge 4200 lbs or so made a difference.
Also coming down mountains the the engine brakeisn't enough sometimes. Often have to press the brakes.
I recommend, personally, ax brakes on all toweds except maybe the Smart Car.
Even towing a trailer behind my F150 weighing perhaps 1500 lbs I can well tell the difference.
Just think of the terrific force of a towed without brakes on tow bar and hitch and especially hitch pin, of four thousand pounds, or less or more in a panic stop or just stopping, from Interstate speeds, and the heating up and burning, of brakes on a mh going down a long mountain grade without and the difference with braking on the towed.

[RJsfishin]

These threads are almost funny, and will be here forever.
Perdy simple in my book, if ya think ya need brakes, install it !!
You ain't never gonna get checked for it anyhow.

Ever temporarly over loaded your truck w/ bagged cement, etc etc ?? So what do you do ?? Drive more defensively, thats what you do.

When I'm towing my Liberty w/o brakes, I know I can't stop quite as fast as if I wasn't, DUH !! It will always be that way. So I instinctively drive a little more defensively,....does that make sense, or is it just common sense,.... its the same thing,.....it works.

[thatsme]

loggenrock wrote:
As one who has used NSA ReadyBrute for something over 15k miles, I can tell you I am very pleased with its performance. First saw one at the Hershey show several years back, liked the simplicity. After a friend had a Brake Buddy, I saw the issues of installing/removing/STORING the brake box. No such issue with ReadyBrute. Ignoring the discussion of supplemental brake requirements, with a smaller coach I WANTED such braking when towing. We've been thru the Rockies, West Virginia, and the mountains of NH and VT without issue. Added plus, the NSA system costs less than other types of systems, and weighs less, too. ST

I Agree 100%. I have also used one for a while now & it is excellent. Very easy to hook-up too.
🙂

[mowermech]

loggenrock wrote:
Every 5er, TT, etc. with electric brakes has 'em, we shouldn't be any different. My 2 cents! ST

Yes, and all the trailers I have ever seen with surge brakes have a breakaway system to lock the brakes in the event of total separation from the towing vehicle.
Which brings us to the next question: If you do have a breakaway braking system, how do you adjust the cable or chain?
Do you adjust it so that it will lock the brakes ONLY in the event of a total separation, or do you adjust it so that it locks the brakes before the slack in the safety chains or cables is taken up?
Personally, I do not want that kind of stress added to the safety chains, so I adjust it so that the brakes will be set only if the trailer totally separates from the towing vehicle. I want the safety chains to do their job, keeping the trailer with the towing vehicle until I can get it stopped. If it bashes up the back of the TV, that is the penalty I have to pay for not ensuring that things would stay together!

[loggenrock]

Every 5er, TT, etc. with electric brakes has 'em, we shouldn't be any different. My 2 cents! ST

[Campinghoss]

johnwalkerpa1 wrote:

Campinghoss@51 wrote:

mowermech wrote:

loggenrock wrote:
The other thing to consider, whether or not one needs a supplemental brake system due to size of coach, etc., is a break-away device to lock up the tow vehicle if it disconnects. Law or not, I wouldn't want to be responsible for my toad careening out of control into oncoming traffic, etc. ST

Seems to me it is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
While having it "careen out of control into oncoming traffic" would certainly not be an ideal situation, neither would having it come to a screeching halt in the midst of 70 MPH traffic! The resultant chain reaction crash could be horrific.
The best bet would be to have safety chains or cables attached in such a manner that the toad could not separate completely except in the unlikely event of total systemic failure i.e. the entire back of the coach frame broke off.

I do not use an emergency brake away system either. The base plate is bolted to the uniframe, a cable is wrapped around the base plate and uniframe, there are two heavy safety cables attached to the car and motor home, and if I was really worried I would install two more safety cables rather than a brake away system. My take is if the tow bars break, the safety cables break then I have a LOT more to worry about than having a emergency break away system. Chances are I would not be around to worry if all those items broke at the same time.

I had the same thought for the same reasons...there is so much redundancy built into the tow bar that it seems very unlikely it is all going to break lose at once....if it does, it is going to be in a catastrophic explosive type of accident where everything is loose and a breakaway device will be irrelevant..

AMEN

[johnwalkerpa1]

Campinghoss@51 wrote:

mowermech wrote:

loggenrock wrote:
The other thing to consider, whether or not one needs a supplemental brake system due to size of coach, etc., is a break-away device to lock up the tow vehicle if it disconnects. Law or not, I wouldn't want to be responsible for my toad careening out of control into oncoming traffic, etc. ST

Seems to me it is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
While having it "careen out of control into oncoming traffic" would certainly not be an ideal situation, neither would having it come to a screeching halt in the midst of 70 MPH traffic! The resultant chain reaction crash could be horrific.
The best bet would be to have safety chains or cables attached in such a manner that the toad could not separate completely except in the unlikely event of total systemic failure i.e. the entire back of the coach frame broke off.

I do not use an emergency brake away system either. The base plate is bolted to the uniframe, a cable is wrapped around the base plate and uniframe, there are two heavy safety cables attached to the car and motor home, and if I was really worried I would install two more safety cables rather than a brake away system. My take is if the tow bars break, the safety cables break then I have a LOT more to worry about than having a emergency break away system. Chances are I would not be around to worry if all those items broke at the same time.

I had the same thought for the same reasons...there is so much redundancy built into the tow bar that it seems very unlikely it is all going to break lose at once....if it does, it is going to be in a catastrophic explosive type of accident where everything is loose and a breakaway device will be irrelevant..

[Campinghoss]

mowermech wrote:

loggenrock wrote:
The other thing to consider, whether or not one needs a supplemental brake system due to size of coach, etc., is a break-away device to lock up the tow vehicle if it disconnects. Law or not, I wouldn't want to be responsible for my toad careening out of control into oncoming traffic, etc. ST

Seems to me it is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
While having it "careen out of control into oncoming traffic" would certainly not be an ideal situation, neither would having it come to a screeching halt in the midst of 70 MPH traffic! The resultant chain reaction crash could be horrific.
The best bet would be to have safety chains or cables attached in such a manner that the toad could not separate completely except in the unlikely event of total systemic failure i.e. the entire back of the coach frame broke off.

I do not use an emergency brake away system either. The base plate is bolted to the uniframe, a cable is wrapped around the base plate and uniframe, there are two heavy safety cables attached to the car and motor home, and if I was really worried I would install two more safety cables rather than a brake away system. My take is if the tow bars break, the safety cables break then I have a LOT more to worry about than having a emergency break away system. Chances are I would not be around to worry if all those items broke at the same time.

[mowermech]

loggenrock wrote:
The other thing to consider, whether or not one needs a supplemental brake system due to size of coach, etc., is a break-away device to lock up the tow vehicle if it disconnects. Law or not, I wouldn't want to be responsible for my toad careening out of control into oncoming traffic, etc. ST

Seems to me it is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
While having it "careen out of control into oncoming traffic" would certainly not be an ideal situation, neither would having it come to a screeching halt in the midst of 70 MPH traffic! The resultant chain reaction crash could be horrific.
The best bet would be to have safety chains or cables attached in such a manner that the toad could not separate completely except in the unlikely event of total systemic failure i.e. the entire back of the coach frame broke off.

[loggenrock]

The other thing to consider, whether or not one needs a supplemental brake system due to size of coach, etc., is a break-away device to lock up the tow vehicle if it disconnects. Law or not, I wouldn't want to be responsible for my toad careening out of control into oncoming traffic, etc. ST