Dinghy Back Up

[Katy_Did]

Ok. I am a newbie. I am considering towing 4 down. I have a couple of simple questions.

1. I am reading that I will be unable to back up a 4 down tow. Can anyone tell me why? I know, may be a simple answer, but if the car is in the neutral, why can it not be backed up?

2. I have a 2013 Smart Car. I am getting feedback I am unable to tow it, so I am considering trading it in for a Chevy Malibu. Any thoughts from those that are experienced. I have a small 23E Thor and do not require a truck. Just a small get around.

I would appreciate your help.

[willald]

j-d wrote:
Well, let's see. In a panic stop, a 4000-lb car presses against the towbar in the way the towbar was designed to work. And hopefully with not all that much pressure since the toad should have a supplemental braking system.

But when the rig backs up and the front wheels of the toad jam into their stops, a 14000-lb motorhome presses the towbar in a crooked way that it wasn't designed for.

And, oh, the same thing happens to tie rods, tie rod ends and rack/pinion in the toad.

Indeed, if the front wheels jam off to the left or right when backing, and you continue backing up that way...Yep, you're going to break stuff very quickly, one of which could be your tow bar.

HOWEVER, most folks would have enough sense to STOP backing well before that happens. That is why if you must back up, you do so slooowly, only in as straight a line possible, and watching the toad carefully. Soon as front wheels on toad start to turn, you pretty much have to stop.

As long as you take that approach, you are not going to break a tow bar or anything else. Despite what the gloom and doomers say. 🙂

Popsie made a very good point, too, that frequently gets overlooked when this discussion comes up - Not ALL cars have positive caster. Some cars are much better suited to allow this backing than others. Jeeps, and other vehicles with older suspension setup with positive caster, are the WORST for this, and front wheels will slam to one side very quickly with these. Its kind of ironic - Jeeps are one of the most popular toads, yet they are the absolute worst for backing up when towed 4 down 'cause of their suspension design.

However, newer vehicles with more modern suspension designs that don't have a lot of positive caster, will let you push them backwards a little more. Its another case where folks are sooo used to saying 'NO, YOU CAN'T DO THAT', they don't realize they could be giving extremely out-dated advice.

My advice: Go to a large parking lot, a smooth surface with your toad hooked up to the Motorhome. With someone watching your toad closely, try backing up slooowly, as straight as you can. If toad wheels start to jam off to one side or the other, STOP and pull forward to straighten back up.

After some practice like this, you will know just what YOU and YOUR specific rig can and can't do. You may find (like I did) that you can easily back up as far as you need to, so long as you stay straight and go slowly. Or, you may find that it will not work at all. Better to have that information beforehand, than to try and find out the hard way when/if you ever get stuck in a tight spot somewhere. 🙂

[CA_Traveler]

Once the toad wheels turn to their stops they are going one way and the MH says go the other way. Then the tow bar loses the battle. Keep on backing and other problems may quickly develop.

[j-d]

Well, let's see. In a panic stop, a 4000-lb car presses against the towbar in the way the towbar was designed to work. And hopefully with not all that much pressure since the toad should have a supplemental braking system.

But when the rig backs up and the front wheels of the toad jam into their stops, a 14000-lb motorhome presses the towbar in a crooked way that it wasn't designed for.

And, oh, the same thing happens to tie rods, tie rod ends and rack/pinion in the toad.

[Horsedoc]

I am still trying to figure out how a backing up issue presents enough pressure to bend a tow bar than a hard braking maneuver from say 60 MPH to 20 MPH.

[Popsie]

gasser9 wrote:
The caster angle is set to go FORWARD not back the front wheels cramp in one direction or another & bend the towbar. I f they don't cramp off you can back forever but usually 3 to 10 feet they will cramp resulting in buying a new tow bar. If you can find someone stu*** brave enough to steer the toad be sure to stat it so the power steering helps. Do not pot thumbs inside the wheel so when it cramps they will not be broken.

Not all cars have positive caster, especially cars with Macpherson strut front suspensions.

You might want to try backing up on gravel or dirt or sand and carefully watch how you car behaves. Then you will know whatever limits you have to observe if you back up.

IMHO, if backing up bends something like a tow bar, you need a more robust towing setup.

[John___Angela]

Katy Did wrote:
I am taking all into consideration will probably not reverse unless in a problem situation. I am thinking of just putting it on my Big Tex. It fits. I use the trailer for my motorcycles or my trike. Just a huge hassle using the trailer in my opinion, but I may. I have been looking at wheel tie downs. Any suggestions for that size tire? I've been on Amazon looking around.

We actually tow ours four down but It has been so long since we bought the wheel tie downs I don't have a clue what size they are. We trailer for a few reasons, one them being that we can back up, the other that we have more than one smart car and we didn't want to set up two for towing. Works for us. It wouldn't bother me to tow it four down though.

[Katy_Did]

I am taking all into consideration will probably not reverse unless in a problem situation. I am thinking of just putting it on my Big Tex. It fits. I use the trailer for my motorcycles or my trike. Just a huge hassle using the trailer in my opinion, but I may. I have been looking at wheel tie downs. Any suggestions for that size tire? I've been on Amazon looking around.

[John___Angela]

Katy Did wrote:
Ok. I am a newbie. I am considering towing 4 down. I have a couple of simple questions.

1. I am reading that I will be unable to back up a 4 down tow. Can anyone tell me why? I know, may be a simple answer, but if the car is in the neutral, why can it not be backed up?

2. I have a 2013 Smart Car. I am getting feedback I am unable to tow it, so I am considering trading it in for a Chevy Malibu. Any thoughts from those that are experienced. I have a small 23E Thor and do not require a truck. Just a small get around.

I would appreciate your help.

Smart cars are common 4 wheel down toads and you will se lots out there. Like any toad there are a usually a few unique things. Put a disconnect in for the battery and many use a 32 inch bungee to help the steering wheel come back to centre. Great little toad.

[GMandJM]

Ahh...yes, CITY mile. You're right. Never heard that phrase before. Probably much shorter than a country mile. 🙂

[OldBlackWater]

GMandJM wrote:
So what brand of tow bar you got there that will let you back up a country mile without bending? Just curious.

It's only guaranteed to back up a city mile. Backing up a country mile will void the warranty.

[GMandJM]

So what brand of tow bar you got there that will let you back up a country mile without bending? Just curious.

[RJsfishin]

Just tie off the steering wheel, and you can back up straight for a city mile.

If you have a tow bar that will bend from doing this, junk it now before it gets you in real trouble.

[GMandJM]

Katy Did wrote:
Thank you all very much. Sounds like I can if needed and only a bit. So I'm taking advice to do so only if I really get myself into a situation. Glad to know all this! Thank you all!

As long as you're willing to risk bending your tow bar, which, once bent cannot usually be fixed, ....go for it.

It's alot less expensive to just unhook your tow'd vehicle if you get yourself into a spot.

[mowermech]

I had to back up once, with a truck camper towing a Jeep. In about 4 feet (maybe 5), the front wheels of the Jeep SLAMMED hard against the stops in a full left turn. The wheels did not gently turn to the stops, they literally SLAMMED over.
Since then, if the situation arises where I must back up with a toad, I have disconnected the toad, moved it, moved the towing vehicle, reconnected, and gone on my way.
I was by myself, so there was no one available to hold the steering wheel. The way the wheels moved, that is probably a good thing. Any body trying to hold the wheel just might have ended up with broken bones!
Yes, some say they do it all the time. Good for them. Personally, I will never try it again. I had one educational experience, that is enough for me!