Question for TEXANS- Class A non CDL

[johndeerefarmer]

We are looking at a toy hauler that combined with the truck will be over 26001 lbs. Legally this requires the Class A non CDL. I know many horse folks that are towing way over that that use their regular license. Also quite a few RVers that use their regular license.

Anyone been stopped or ticketed?

Thanks

[Dtank]

free radical wrote:

jdgreen42 wrote:
Contact the Texas DPS and get the correct and official answer.

BEST answer yet.

X-2 (or 3 or 4)

:B

BTW - ask on the Escapees Forum. Many/most licensed in TX, towing
5ths, etc. HQ'd in Livingston, TX - again many/most use the TX DMV there - and know the "ropes" !!

~

[PA12DRVR]

The introduction to the Texas Drivers Handbook for 2023, just like the 2010 version that I eventually got around to reading, contains a very clear disclaimer that nothing in the handbook is meant to reflect the actual laws.

In my case, back in the 2010 era, when I spent a couple hours with a DPS examiner, she and I both got comfortable with the idea that I needed a Class A non-commercial to use my fully rated F350 towing the 16,000 GVWR KZ Escalade...which I promptly ignored for the remaining few months before I sold the truck and trailer.

[toedtoes]

First, you always trust the actual statute above any document/pamphlet that refers to the statute because the author of the document/pamphlet can make mistakes.

Second, Here is that statute per the Texas.gov website. It shows revisions on other sections eff 2022. Yet it doesn't show any revision to section 545.083.

Third, it would not make sense to revise the section to "not more than 10,000lbs" because that would create the problem you indicated, whereas the original "not more than 20,000lbs" does NOT create that problem.

So for those three reasons, I would say it is safe to say that the 2022 driver license book is incorrect and likely a typo error.

[BB_TX]

toedtoes wrote:
Here is the actual law:

SUBCHAPTER D. CLASSIFICATION OF DRIVER'S LICENSES



Sec. 521.081. CLASS A LICENSE. A Class A driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:

(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more; or

(2) a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.


Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.




Sec. 521.082. CLASS B LICENSE. (a) A Class B driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:

(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating that is more than 26,000 pounds;

(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,000 pounds or more towing:

(A) a vehicle, other than a farm trailer, with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 10,000 pounds; or

(B) a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds; and

(3) a bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more.

(b) For the purposes of Subsection (a)(3), seating capacity is computed in accordance with Section 502.253, except that the operator's seat is included in the computation.


Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Amended by:

Acts 2013, 83rd Leg., R.S., Ch. 161 (S.B. 1093), Sec. 20.017, eff. September 1, 2013.




Sec. 521.083. CLASS C LICENSE. A Class C driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:

(1) a vehicle or combination of vehicles not described by Section 521.081 or 521.082; and

(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds towing a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds.


Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.



The bolded sections are the pertinent sections.

The main difference between the class A and class B is that the Class A refers to the Combined gvwr and the Class B refers to the tow vehicle's gvwr.

In BB_TX's case, the Class C is the appropriate license because his combined gvwr is less than 26,001 and his tow vehicle gvwr is less than 26,000. The Class C requirement does not limit the gvwr of the trailer to 10,000 or less.

In the OP's case, the Class A is the required license because the combined gvwr is 26,001 or more and the towed has a gvwr of over 10,000.

Interesting. The quote in blue in my post above specifying the 10,000 lb limit came from the Texas Department of Public Safety TEXAS DRIVER HANDBOOK January 2022 edition.

What you posted above was enacted in 1995 in the state codes without the 10,000 lb limitation. So the million dollar question is; is the new handbook wrong to have that additional limitation or is the on-line access to the codes not up to date? :h

[sayoung]

I don't have the current Texas Commercial handbook handy so in 2012 when I got my A non-CDL you had to go to that book & read the " Exceptions to the Exemptions " page to see what license was needed for rigs with GVWR over 26001 lbs or heavy trailers.
I think why so many RV'rs here don't have the correct license as the C hand book states RV's don't need a special license but as I said the CDL book spells it out.
Not an rv but a friend was towing his 36 ft gooseneck dovetail loaded with metal building material with his F450 on US 59 near Texarkana & he got stopped. Trooper made him drop trailer and get someone with correct license so it does get enforced occasionally

[Grit_dog]

MFL wrote:
^^Now you are opening another can of worms for many. Lots of sticker readers:B on these forums, that do not know why that F350 sticker reads GVWR 10,000. Now that F350 diesel can not even tow a 1/2 ton towable FW!

Jerry

:B

[toedtoes]

Here is the actual law:

SUBCHAPTER D. CLASSIFICATION OF DRIVER'S LICENSES



Sec. 521.081. CLASS A LICENSE. A Class A driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:

(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more; or

(2) a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.


Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.




Sec. 521.082. CLASS B LICENSE. (a) A Class B driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:

(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating that is more than 26,000 pounds;

(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,000 pounds or more towing:

(A) a vehicle, other than a farm trailer, with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 10,000 pounds; or

(B) a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds; and

(3) a bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more.

(b) For the purposes of Subsection (a)(3), seating capacity is computed in accordance with Section 502.253, except that the operator's seat is included in the computation.


Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Amended by:

Acts 2013, 83rd Leg., R.S., Ch. 161 (S.B. 1093), Sec. 20.017, eff. September 1, 2013.




Sec. 521.083. CLASS C LICENSE. A Class C driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:

(1) a vehicle or combination of vehicles not described by Section 521.081 or 521.082; and

(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds towing a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds.


Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.



The bolded sections are the pertinent sections.

The main difference between the class A and class B is that the Class A refers to the Combined gvwr and the Class B refers to the tow vehicle's gvwr.

In BB_TX's case, the Class C is the appropriate license because his combined gvwr is less than 26,001 and his tow vehicle gvwr is less than 26,000. The Class C requirement does not limit the gvwr of the trailer to 10,000 or less.

In the OP's case, the Class A is the required license because the combined gvwr is 26,001 or more and the towed has a gvwr of over 10,000.

[JRscooby]

johndeerefarmer wrote:
Class C is correct as I said, which is why you can buy a truck derated from the factory. As far as I know this is the reason that Ford and others started selling derated trucks. You can tow 16k lbs with a 10k truck

https://escapees.com/texas-drivers-license-requirements-for-rvers/

To be "legal" I can also get the toy hauler derated as well if I want.

For example, Big Tex

https://dealerportal.bigtextrailers.com/wpbigtx/wp-content/uploads/form_vin_re-rate.pdf

Then your only worry is if you are stopped and weighed and weigh over the 26k lbs. I have never in 45 years of driving saw a non-commercial rig weighed.

I can't say I have ever seen a non-commercial rig weighed.
But I can say that setting in the county courthouse in Lexington Mo, waiting my turn to argue to get my overweight fine reduced, I watched 3 guys tell the judge they did not know they needed to license their pickups for total weight, truck+trailer+boat. Also the judge announced "warrant" for 1 from Iowa, another from Kansas. I'm fairly certain LEO did not write numbers on that ticket with putting them on his portables.

And like I say, I know nothing about the non-commercial, but real CDL, the rating is where the line is drawn. Around here, a lot of small contractors run into issues getting class A CDL, without the air brake endorsement, to haul Bobcats and such.

[MFL]

^^Now you are opening another can of worms for many. Lots of sticker readers on these forums, that do not know why that F350 sticker reads GVWR 10,000. Now that F350 diesel can not even tow a 1/2 ton towable FW! 🙂

Jerry

[johndeerefarmer]

Class C is correct as I said, which is why you can buy a truck derated from the factory. As far as I know this is the reason that Ford and others started selling derated trucks. You can tow 16k lbs with a 10k truck

https://escapees.com/texas-drivers-license-requirements-for-rvers/

To be "legal" I can also get the toy hauler derated as well if I want.

For example, Big Tex

https://dealerportal.bigtextrailers.com/wpbigtx/wp-content/uploads/form_vin_re-rate.pdf

Then your only worry is if you are stopped and weighed and weigh over the 26k lbs. I have never in 45 years of driving saw a non-commercial rig weighed.

[Grit_dog]

Not according to
https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/driver-license/classes-driver-licenses

But whatever….it’s not actually an issue because you were correct at the time I’m sure and still are, but don’t need to be any longer…

[BB_TX]

Grit dog wrote:

BB_TX wrote:

johndeerefarmer wrote:

BB_TX wrote:

way2roll wrote:
I would research the requirements in your state. It's binary, either you need a different license or you don't. If you need it, get it. It's pretty simple. Anything worth doing is worth doing right. The question about whether you get pulled over and the consequences is just noise. If you have the proper license it's no longer a question.

I was in an interesting situation pertaining to a Texas DL.

Class A - a combination of vehicles with a combined GVWR of 26,001 lbs and towing a trailer with a GVWR greater than 10,000 lb.
Class B - a single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 lb or a combination of vehicles with a combined GVWR of 26,001 lb and towing a trailer under 10,000 lb.
Class C - a vehicle not falling under class A or class B towing a trailer with a GVWR of under 10,000 lb.

My truck/5er conbined GVWR was under 26,000 lbs. So I did not fall under the class A license. Or class B. But my 5er GVWR was about 14,000 lb, so did not fall under class C. So my situation did not meet any of the requirements. I continued to tow with my class C wondering how a LEO would respond if I got stopped and he questioned my license class and I then ask him what class I should have based on my weights. :h Never got stopped to find out.

Class C is fine for what you have. Many hotshoters have their truck derated to 10k lbs (which is why Ford offers this option when you order) and with a truck rated at 10k they can tow a trailer with a GVWR of 16k and still only run Class C

Registration on a 10k truck is cheaper and so is insurance I think

Not according to the definition of class C. It specifically says a trailer not to exceed 10,000 lbs. My 5er was about 14,000 lbs.

A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of less than 26,001 lbs. towing a trailer not to exceed 10,000 lbs. GVWR or a farm trailer with a GVWR that does not exceed 20,000 lb

Correct, so you clearly don’t fall in A or B class by those definitions, and the first line for a class C says something like “any vehicle or combo that doesn’t fall under A or B.”

Therefore C is the correct answer. And additionally class C doesn’t say under 10klb. Only farm trailers under 20k. Maybe the lingo changed since back in the day but idk.

The paragraph in blue above with the 10,000 lb limit is in the current description of class C now. So I didn’t fit class C either. LEO or a judge’s interpretation would be interesting since they could say I didn’t meet A, B, or C but they also couldn’t actually tell me what class I did meet. A loophole in the wording.

[Grit_dog]

BB_TX wrote:

johndeerefarmer wrote:

BB_TX wrote:

way2roll wrote:
I would research the requirements in your state. It's binary, either you need a different license or you don't. If you need it, get it. It's pretty simple. Anything worth doing is worth doing right. The question about whether you get pulled over and the consequences is just noise. If you have the proper license it's no longer a question.

I was in an interesting situation pertaining to a Texas DL.

Class A - a combination of vehicles with a combined GVWR of 26,001 lbs and towing a trailer with a GVWR greater than 10,000 lb.
Class B - a single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 lb or a combination of vehicles with a combined GVWR of 26,001 lb and towing a trailer under 10,000 lb.
Class C - a vehicle not falling under class A or class B towing a trailer with a GVWR of under 10,000 lb.

My truck/5er conbined GVWR was under 26,000 lbs. So I did not fall under the class A license. Or class B. But my 5er GVWR was about 14,000 lb, so did not fall under class C. So my situation did not meet any of the requirements. I continued to tow with my class C wondering how a LEO would respond if I got stopped and he questioned my license class and I then ask him what class I should have based on my weights. :h Never got stopped to find out.

Class C is fine for what you have. Many hotshoters have their truck derated to 10k lbs (which is why Ford offers this option when you order) and with a truck rated at 10k they can tow a trailer with a GVWR of 16k and still only run Class C

Registration on a 10k truck is cheaper and so is insurance I think

Not according to the definition of class C. It specifically says a trailer not to exceed 10,000 lbs. My 5er was about 14,000 lbs.

A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of less than 26,001 lbs. towing a trailer not to exceed 10,000 lbs. GVWR or a farm trailer with a GVWR that does not exceed 20,000 lb

Correct, so you clearly don’t fall in A or B class by those definitions, and the first line for a class C says something like “any vehicle or combo that doesn’t fall under A or B.”

Therefore C is the correct answer. And additionally class C doesn’t say under 10klb. Only farm trailers under 20k. Maybe the lingo changed since back in the day but idk.

[PA12DRVR]

FWIW....when I live in Ewe-stun, admittedly a few years ago now, there were vendors (for lack of a better word) that offered all sorts of driver training, from ordinary DL stuff for teens to full-on CDL with all the endorsements training.

About the time I simultaneously realized I needed a Class A non-CDL AND decided to ditch Texas for Alaska, I found a couple of places that (for a fee) would provide, over the weekend, training and testing for the Class A non-CDL, including (they were a contractor of some sort for DPS) issuing the new / upgraded license. Fairly steep (recall it being $400 at the time) cost, but it was essentially a plug and play...set aside a weekend and $400, come out of it with a Class A non-CDL.

Never attended and it might be only in the bigger areas, but something like that might be an option.