Rant on buying an RV - long

[avan]

I have been off RV Net for about 3 years after having stopped a 15 yr full timing run. I now live in the Everglades FL area and am thinking of buying a used higher end 28-30' B+ to summer-bird in and so have been looking for the past 2 months or so. I have been willing to pretty much look anywhere in the country but since, through no fault of any sellers out there,FL is a long peninsula and Naples is close to the far end, I have been trying to whittle through the choices by asking, via email, lots of questions including sometimes more pictures. use email because it is easier for me to remember, review and compare written responses vs a phone conversation.

In 15 yrs of FTing, I've probably been a guest in a thousand units and don't need to ask about the basics. Further, manufacturer's brochures are available online for every year obviating the need to ask things like tank sizes, floor plan descriptions etc. Every brochure I've seen tells one what the standard equipment is on each model. So though I ask questions, they are pretty tailored to the specific offering - like tell me what tears, rips and battle scars there are on the unit; are the batteries & tires original; one owner; VIN etc?

First, why do sellers use consignment????????? And if a seller is considering a consignment dealer, why doesn't the seller call or email the dealer, as if interested in another unit, in order to see what effort the dealer will put forth.

For example, PPL had 3 units that I thought were of interest. I put together 3 separate emails, one for each rig, asking my questions. I used a format wherein a question is asked and more than adequate answer space was provided after each question. I suggested that if it were easier, the email could just be printed,the answers penciled in, with the sheet then scanned and sent back to me. I stated that my phone service was, at best, spotty, that I lived over a 1000 miles away and that I had no trade in and needed no loan. Over a 2 week period and two repeat re-sends of my emails, I still had no response - not even an automated "we got your email but we're on vacation and it'll be a year before we get back to you".

So I called. I asked to speak with a sales manager or sales supervisor. I could not get past the person answering the phone and her 99 questions so I finally explained that I was calling to see if PPL was still in business since emails are ignored. It was like she was a brick wall erected by the company solely for the purpose of irritating customers. I gave her my email address along with the fact that they had 3 (times 3 rigs) already unanswered emails from me and suggested that the answers to her questions would be contained in my number of emails now residing in their 'unanswered' email box.

I soon got an email from one of their salespeople asking what rigs I was interested in etc. and so, now armed with an individual's actual email address, I forwarded my prior email sets including their 3 stock numbers. I rec'd an email back saying that PPL has hundreds of units on consignment and that they are 'just too busy to answer questions but if I were just to stop by (never mind the distance) all their units are open and I could just spend as much time as I wanted looking at what ever I wanted'. My questions were designed to help me decide if buying a plane ticket to Houston was worthwhile. Like what's so hard about sending me the VIN so I can CarFax the units? Two of those units are still there, nearly 2 months later, and the sellers are probably wondering why their units are not yet sold and PPL is probably telling them that interest is low and so they should lower their price.

One Tampa area dealer had a unit on his lot that was listed on RVTrader as 'on consignment'. I wrote via the dealer's internal web mail form and via RVTrader's webmail inquiry process to get more info. The dealer website and RVTrader ad both had but one picture - an exterior side view - with no info other than year and make of the rig - no mileage, no condition, zero info. No answer. I sent a copy of my completed RV Webmail form to RVTrader a week or so later saying that there had been no response. RVTrader acknowledged receipt but I still heard nothing from the dealer. A few weeks later, when in the general Tampa area, I drove to the dealer lot. The unit was there. The salesman that greeted me knew (surprise, surprise) nothing about the rig in his sparse inventory and when he couldn't figure out how to even start the rig, he called the dealer out to help.

Given the opportunity I asked the dealer why my webmails to him via his web site and via RVTrader had not been answered and why there was only 1 picture on his and RVTrader's site with no description. He replied that it was only a consignment unit and he didn't have the time, money or inclination to take photos (plural)and write descriptions for consignment units - "after all, I'm on a busy street and lots of people ride by". I got in my car and kept on riding.

I could literally go on and on with other examples - Dallas, Mountain Home, AR, N. Chicago Suburb, N. Detroit Suburb etc. So what is the attraction of folks to consignment??? Not one consignment that I've contacted has been properly represented and it appears to me that a consigned unit will only sell if lightning strikes the dealership.

Then there are the dealers who advertise prices that are not close to realistic. At least those are better than the dealers who, when advertising a 3-4 model year old rig, rather than quoting even an unrealistic price, insist on advertising it by saying "MSRP $xxx,xxx.xx". There can't be an RVer alive that would believe 'MSRP' on a new rig and even fewer that would think that the brand new MSRP price was even remotely relevant to a used, previously titled, camped in and driven rig. We RV buyers are not that dumb, are we?

Finally on the dealer's side, we have those who will only say "Call for today's low price". They should rather hold up a sign saying 'run for your life'. And if one does go to where the cell service is not spotty and call, rather than answer a most simple basic "what is your asking price" question (as we are invited to ask),the no-sales person has dozens of personal questions for me. "What price range are you looking for?" "What is your budget?" "Are you familiar with this spectacular, exceptional, great valued (pick one) brand" etc. etc. etc. Surprised none have yet to ask me how my love life is! Hey dealers, I'm not looking to date you! I just want to know what your opening asking price is. You invited me to the dance. I know you want to know how much $ I have in my pocket first but my business model is not to negotiate with myself but with you. So start it off. Price too high and I won't play your game. Make it too hard for me before I'm even a customer by asking me questions as tactic to avoid answering mine and I won't play your game either. Are there really that many naive RV buyers so as to make these tactics worthwhile? All I'm looking for is a compelling deal - a reasonable combination of quality/functionality and price - something that says "you should take good look at this rig/deal." I don't want to make this my life's work.

And I guess I should say something to some of the private party sellers. When I ask for pictures, I want them to tell the story of your RV. Make the pics a tour of your RV and not of your personal items that you are so proud of. I'm really not interested that you have a frog doll or whatever on your driver's seat. It just makes me wonder if it is covering a rip. So you added a spare tire. I don't need two pictures of that and none of the rest of the exterior. A spare tire only cost $100-$150. That you spent those $$ is just not that important such that it obviates relevant picture of what's really for sale.

So what am I missing in my search? I'm almost at the point where it just isn't worth the effort.

[beemerphile1]

viewofakind wrote:
just read this as considering position in what they would call BDC sales for RV's that would handle this type of info gathering for clients. In auto sales now, we do get requests for info/pics etc and from good distances, they 75% percent of the time turn out to be something but should always be followed through 100% of the time no matter what. If you have what someone wants they will travel to get it, as long as the service they get is 100%. All of your information shared here in your experience is really appreciated. I think too that the consignment deal might be an untapped resource, if also given the 100%, thanks avan

The problem with reviving a thread that is nearly a year old is that most people will reply to the original thread, not to your post.

[pitch]

Seems to me that if I was dependant on commission for my lifestyle, I would make a point to follow every lead that came my way. There is no way you can convince me that a salesman can't pull an hour out of the day or even two days and answer a few questions. Never have I worked a job no matter how menial, that I wasn't on site 20 or so minutes early,tying up loose ends from yesterdays work,figuring logistics or gathering resources for todays work. Work ethic, it'll never let you down.

[monkey44]

Whenever we look online at a new purchase (or pre-owned) - (Truck or RV) we always gather what info is available. Then we chose a sales contact and send a very brief email asking for more info.

Brief, gets one representative to email you back, and s/he knows you are the contact for a sale if it happens. You get the attention of one person that knows the sale is hers/his if you buy. The worst way, in my mind, is to ask in a long, detailed message to a random salesman ... direct contact to a real name first is always more fruitful for both parties.

[PA12DRVR]

peaches&cream wrote:
Avan,

As you say, you have plenty of expierence purchasing RV's. Contact one of you previous Dealer's and purchase one.

This ^^^^^....and I agree with the previous poster about PPL

"We put our RV on consignment at PPL and sold it within a month to a party that flew in from Florida to check it out. We never expected PPL to be a salesperson for us. We put it there because we didn't want to deal with selling it ourselves and wasting our time by 'no-shows'. PPL has a good track record for selling and it was recommended to us by others who sold their RV that way. PPL is in a very good area for RVers coming from north to south and east to west. It gets a lot of traffic. Prospective buyers are not hassled by sales people. It's an easy purchasing option for many."

[free_radical]

I agree with OP

Its a whole new ball game nowadays..
if a dealer is too lazy to answer email enquiries he will not get my money..its that simple,,
I dont care to chat on the phone listening to all kinds of sales pitch bs..and I sure wont waste time driving around long distances..

Sent emails to about 10 different GM dealers within 100 km range,
when shopping for a new truck stating exactly what engine and options I want asking for a price,,,
only one person wrote back giving me what I wanted..gave him my paycheck next day and I drove away happy..

[viewofakind]

just read this as considering position in what they would call BDC sales for RV's that would handle this type of info gathering for clients. In auto sales now, we do get requests for info/pics etc and from good distances, they 75% percent of the time turn out to be something but should always be followed through 100% of the time no matter what. If you have what someone wants they will travel to get it, as long as the service they get is 100%. All of your information shared here in your experience is really appreciated. I think too that the consignment deal might be an untapped resource, if also given the 100%, thanks avan

[BurbMan]

Ductape wrote:
I suggest tuning your own communication skills since you are getting the same result repeatedly. I call first, ask for the person handling internet sales, tell them specifically what vehicle I'm interested in and that I am prepared to buy as soon as I locate the right unit. Then we trade e-mail addresses and go on from there. That almost always works and if they don't respond then move on.

Just sending mails is just like spam. Hard to take seriously. Anyone who's sold online knows this.

I would agree with this. Sending a looong email with numerous questions isn't the way to start the process. The dealers get so many lookie-loos and tire kickers, that if the sales team responded to every inquiry they got like this they wouldn't have time for the real buyers.

It's important to establish your credibility as a buyer to get the attention of a place like PPL with thousands on units on their lot. If a phone call isn't possible, then make your first email as Ductape says. In ONE email, be short and to the point, tell them specifically what vehicles you are interested in, and that you are prepared to buy as soon as you locate the right unit. Ask what they can tell you about the units, and go on from there." Save the detailed questions for the second exchange, and you will get better replies once the salesman knows that you are actually an interested and capable buyer.

[peaches_cream]

Avan,

As you say, you have plenty of expierence purchasing RV's. Contact one of you previous Dealer's and purchase one.

[traveylin]

Hmmmmmm younger gen feels more comfortable with verbal jousting, How to quantify?? Summ up the words in responses and chart versus age. How to quantify ppl listing a unit as above average with eight scratches..Show the year mfg and the milage maybe.

an interested buyer conveys promise of a transaction. A shopper consumes a lot of time

[avan]

OP here and if my original post was too long, quit reading.

First of all, thank you to Dave who did an inspection complete with dozens of pictures of the 3 PPL units that I was interested in. Very grateful. The eight exterior scratches completely through the body paint were just out of PPL's camera range by only a couple of inches amongst numerous other things. Another unit had obviously been damaged along the curb side as it had been repainted with lots of overspray. Unfortunately, they forgot to repair some of the 'crunch' effect that appeared on the inside wall of the rig. Awning arm damage appeared to be taped and so on. All units rated by PPL on their site as "Very Good +" or "Excellent".

To the 2nd and 3rd page posters who complain that my post was too long - the thread title both stated it was a 'rant' and that it was 'long'. Yet though you don't like long posts, you opened the thread anyway :h and then felt compelled to add your wisdom to the thread.

A number of posters suggest that I should call. First of all, these dealers were all advertising and promoting their products on the web - an electronic communication - and invited responses and inquiries. Second, I live in the Everglades at the very fringe of a cell and my coverage is at best spotty. Often, tethered to my phone, emails and texts will get out and and come in when voice coverage doesn't exist. Calling and conducting a business conversation from the car a mile away from home, waiting on hold, etc., just doesn't cut it for me. Where I live is not the dealer's fault but it is what it is.

Further, I am very much in agreement with the oh so many posters on RVNet that if an RV salesman's mouth is moving, he/she must be lying. And so, why would I or anyone want to conduct an oral phone conversation? The dealers are entitled to their business model of only speaking with people by phone or in person but I am entitled to my buying model of making written inquiries. Old school, I know, but I figure if they can't handle my inquiry my way before the sale, they sure are going to dump on me, post sale.

I must be of a different generation than many. I'm old. I bought my first tow vehicle sight unseen except by pictures on the internet and had it delivered to me.

That was over 17 yrs ago.

I bought my second tow vehicle also via the internet though once I was satisfied with the answers to my questions, I traveled to test drive it.

That was 12 yrs ago.

I also bought both of our full time fivers via dealer emails with 10 dealers. Never went to any of the dealers except one and that was only to pick the unit up.


Also sold the second truck via the internet to a buyer well over 3,000 miles away. Probably exchanged 10 emails with him and sent well over 50 pics to him (pics of specific things that he wanted taken). He bought the truck and wired the funds, sight unseen and didn't see the truck until he flew to S. Florida from British Columbia and picked it up. I gave him the keys at the airport and 5 minutes later he was on the road back north.

My fiver and my RV lot were also sold via the net though not closed until inspected. So I've had a fair amount of experience with major purchases/sales electronically. But it's been a few years and perhaps things have just passed me by and the younger generation feels more comfortable with verbal jousting?

[traveylin]

the ppl experience....internet listing included make model floor plan pictures a quality evaluation per a set of stds and a nominated price. If it meets my needs, I call and talk to a salesman with an offer predicated on passing its 8 page ppl inspection with fixes the responsibility of seller and in conformance with the ppl quality inspection. If accepted seller agrees to hold the deal for a day or two for my onsite completion of the deal.
An interested buyer can complete the deal

[monkey44]

P.S. - Most car dealers now even have a dedicated "internet sales" person who understands how the internet benefits dealers. The last time I bought a car the internet sales guy had 4 people waiting for him.... and the "regular" sales guys were sitting around looking jealous that the last 4 people who walked through the dealership's doors already had an established relationship with someone and, therefore, were not "free for the taking".

That is Correct! Last time we bought our new truck, we did everything over the net, including the "price dicker" ... when we walked in the dealership, four guys were sitting at the desk in front salesroom. We said, NO thanks, we're looking for Mike. Mike was back in his office, draining the internet customers into his wallet, while these other guys waited for a walk-in.

Complete deal except the test drive and the signing. Course, it was a new truck, not a used RV (or even a new RV) -- but you can bet one thing, if I ever got a job selling vehicles (any kind) I'd be answering every internet query immediately. That's where the buyers are FIRST, not in the office or on the sales lot.

[Stars101]

I liked the picture the OP painted with his detailed question. If he had been concise most people here would have asked all the questions he covered in the OP. And this thread would be 12 pages long.... just saying.

I totally agree that most dealerships seem to have a lot of salesman just standing around with nothing to do all day. If you have a HUGE volume of foot traffic I guess internet technology isn't for you. But if you want to move units you will take the time to answer emails and develop a relationship with someone who might purchase from you.

I can't see it taking more than 10-15 minutes to walk the lot armed with the questions and lay eyes on the unit. Seems simple to me.

P.S. - Most car dealers now even have a dedicated "internet sales" person who understands how the internet benefits dealers. The last time I bought a car the internet sales guy had 4 people waiting for him.... and the "regular" sales guys were sitting around looking jealous that the last 4 people who walked through the dealership's doors already had an established relationship with someone and, therefore, were not "free for the taking".

[DSDP_Don]

"rkentzel"....No one was making fun of your disability, just the ridiculousness of your comment!!