RV Mfg's Missing a new market segment

[fulltimedaniel]

After full timing for two years now and meeting and talking to hundreds of other fellow travelers one thing is apparent to me.

The RV Manufacturers are missing or unaware of a significant market segment that wants and buys RV's

I am talking about the many many people who travel together that are not married or a couple (of either or both sexes)that do not sleep together and need two bedrooms or at least two separate and private sleeping areas.

The overwhelming majority of trailers are designed for couples or for a family with children.

While this market segment isnt huge it is significant and growing. Some have dubbed it the Golden Girls...or Boys phenomena. There are an increasing number of non related older people living together and sharing expenses.

In my recent tour of about 5 Large RV dealers looking for such a trailer I got mostly dumb looks (a normal response at many dealers to any question) and rather condescending responses based on my marital status. And no trailers to look at.

It will be nice when the RV manufacturers wake up to good design, interiors that dont look like Liberaces Bedroom and more efficient and appealing designs...to say nothing of needed equipment like (gasp) shock absorbers on every trailer.

Instead we get over the top frothy designs that maximize TV viewing inside and out (a terrible idea that should be stamped out now)instead of true livability.

[MrWizard]

You are taking the 30% out of context
He said 30% of us baby boomers are single
That would have come from census data

He did not say 30% wanted separate bedrooms
He said a growing number 'unknown' wanted this, so they could RV
Nobody knows what that 'number' is, but it is some portion of the percent that currently lives a single life

I still agree with the majority, that if Mfg thought the numbers were there, they would build more units

[2012Coleman]

Perhaps this 30% has never heard about the internet, or know how to do a Google search, or they just like to complain for the sake of complaining.

Perhaps if the OP shared the positive replies with the masses he comes into contact with, and in so doing, this so called unrequited demand started to rise, manufactures would take notice and build similar offerings to the ones in the links the OP seems to be going out of his way to avoid referring to.

Manufacturers don't read this forum much less base product line-up on fantasy numbers from one guy who claims to know 30% of RVers who say they want this feature or that feature.

I was on his side, but the OP obviously can't be happy with positive information, so I guess there's to be more wailing and gnashing of teeth around the campfires in his travels.

[bpounds]

Lots of popups have what you want. One equally large bed on each end of the unit. A hunting buddy had one, and it was great for two guys on hunting/fishing trips.

[RPreeb]

mich800 wrote:

2012Coleman wrote:
Agree - there are at least two posts in this thread for units that come or can be optioned to offer two (closed off with walls and doors) bedrooms - from 2 different manufacturers. There are also lots of older units with this same option no longer being produced, so this covers those wanting to buy used.

So yes, manufacturers have filled this small market segment - now and in the past. And no, it's not a dumb idea as most commenters in the negative vein are not full timers, or can't think outside the box, or just want to argue about something they can't perceive.

Case closed IMO.

This is the real answer. The market exists and is served by the quantity of models commensurate with actual demand. The statistics in this thread just are not valid. It does not matter the number of households in the US or number of single baby boomers. The only statistic that matters is the number that purchase RV's. Those are the numbers sound business decisions are made.

Every question Daniel has posed has been answered, as far as I can see. If there was as large a demand as Daniel seems to think there is, then the industry would increase the offerings to meet that demand. The fact that they haven't would seem to indicate that such demand doesn't actually exist, despite his anecdotal impressions. After all, there is no way that they would be passing on a real market need.

I have to say that I don't know where this 30% is that he keeps talking about. I'm a boomer myself, and I really don't know of anyone my age who is into this sort of living arrangement. I don't dispute that they are out there, but 30%? Doesn't seem like a realistic number. I'd like to know where he comes up with that number, and and if it is accurate, how he transposes from that to those who want to RV but can't because of the lack of availability. There is too much guessing and supposition and not enough fact for me to give a lot of credence to his contention.

[fulltimedaniel]

2012Coleman wrote:

OP wrote:
Many here spoke of this being a "niche" market and maybe so.

So you've made progress and can finally admit to this being a niche market - that's great!

OP wrote:
Many here have only given a cursory read to some of the posts, including my original and still somehow are touting the "bunkhouse" model...Well that is what I have now and I know and don't want it's limitations. I probably saw every bunkhouse model made in the year I took to find the trailer I have now.

But more than 2 responders gave examples of units that fit your criteria, but you don't mention those - so perhaps, it's you that have only given these responses a "cursory" read.

BulldawgFan wrote:
After reading this whole thread, a fee thoughts amd observations.

1) Any of us who rv know that the rv lifestyle is all about comprise. The point has been made and demonstrated that there are options out there. Ironically, the OP seems more caught up in the argument than being appreciative to those who took the time to research and find an option.

BulldawgFan hit the nail on the head. Observation made and confirmed.

I wonder how you can read my last post and ignore the salient point of the entire thing?

First I didnt admit it was a niche market. I said, as the quote you used clearly states, That some MAY consider it so.

Those who are disagreeing seem to have focused on the bunkhouse models and the very few models that do have two bedrooms. While this is important it is a side issue.

But again let me reiterate; my main thrust was that with more than 30 percent of Baby Boomers (the largest RV Market by far) being single a growing number of those are teaming up to live and yes RV together. While this may be a new and unusual idea for you to comprehend it is there and it's on the economic horizon.

My guess was and is that given the dismal history of the RV industry in keeping up with current trends and continuing to make out of date and questionable products in many cases I don't think they are on to this market change either.

But somehow my critics here, which I appreciate, have missed the point and have so far failed, as you have, to bring any facts or numbers to this argument to support your contention that this market is tiny and or non existent. While I have cited demographic numbers from two perspectives from the US Census that bolsters my belief.

I often wonder if people actually have read and thought about what has been written before they start quoting and responding.

And it still amazes me that this otherwise mundane subject posed originally as a speculative question has garnered so much attention, misunderstanding and pointed responses by some.

[cmcdar]

I have found my dream camper.

Found it on the internet (layout) but have not found a dealer that has it on the lot.

I suppose for anyone who has ever gone "camper shopping" would never know that it exists.

With that I am out of this discussion. There seem to be too many pitbulls that just can't drop it.

[mich800]

2012Coleman wrote:
Agree - there are at least two posts in this thread for units that come or can be optioned to offer two (closed off with walls and doors) bedrooms - from 2 different manufacturers. There are also lots of older units with this same option no longer being produced, so this covers those wanting to buy used.

So yes, manufacturers have filled this small market segment - now and in the past. And no, it's not a dumb idea as most commenters in the negative vein are not full timers, or can't think outside the box, or just want to argue about something they can't perceive.

Case closed IMO.

This is the real answer. The market exists and is served by the quantity of models commensurate with actual demand. The statistics in this thread just are not valid. It does not matter the number of households in the US or number of single baby boomers. The only statistic that matters is the number that purchase RV's. Those are the numbers sound business decisions are made.

[2012Coleman]

OP wrote:
Many here spoke of this being a "niche" market and maybe so.

So you've made progress and can finally admit to this being a niche market - that's great!

OP wrote:
Many here have only given a cursory read to some of the posts, including my original and still somehow are touting the "bunkhouse" model...Well that is what I have now and I know and don't want it's limitations. I probably saw every bunkhouse model made in the year I took to find the trailer I have now.

But more than 2 responders gave examples of units that fit your criteria, but you don't mention those - so perhaps, it's you that have only given these responses a "cursory" read.

BulldawgFan wrote:
After reading this whole thread, a fee thoughts amd observations.

1) Any of us who rv know that the rv lifestyle is all about comprise. The point has been made and demonstrated that there are options out there. Ironically, the OP seems more caught up in the argument than being appreciative to those who took the time to research and find an option.

BulldawgFan hit the nail on the head. Observation made and confirmed.

[2gypsies1]

fulltimedaniel wrote:

In this case I want something that will still fit into most national Parks and most of the two bedroom models that are available and that I was fully aware of before writing this post, are in the 40 foot range.

You want a cheap RV that's less than 40' and two bedrooms. How can they make a 30' into two enclosed bedrooms and still have room for kitchen/bath and 'perhaps' a living area? You're not being realistic.

Also, our 40' motorhome and car easily fit in many national parks, national forest campgrounds, state parks, COE, county and city parks. No, you won't fit in every site or in every park but neither will a 30'!

[MrWizard]

Many here spoke of this being a "niche" market and maybe so. But somehow RV Mfg's can put Helicopters on Class A's, Decks on 5th Wheels
and other such things that certainly appeal to a much smaller market than those wanting two bedrooms

Again what you mention is a niche with money, a custom or semi custom model
A niche that can be supported, by the purchase price
A niche that can not afford the price of a custom trailer , Is not going to get a custom trailer
What percentage of baby boomers are rv owners, what is the percentage of trailer owners
30% of boomers are single what percent of that what to travel and share the cost of platonic ownership of this two bedroom trailer

There may be a desire by you and a few others, for this item
But the market numbers are not there for the Mfg and sales
The RV Mfg like all other retail Mfg, look for new markets
But they do extensive research, and/or build a prototype and gauge market interest, before committing to something
If there is a Profit to be made they will build it
It seems the numbers are not there in sufficient quantity

[Walaby]

PawPaw_n_Gram wrote:

Walaby wrote:
Not to change the subject per se, but Im still trying to figure out the references I keep seeing about Liberace's bedroom. I've never been in his bedroom, so I can't comment first hand.

Seen the reference previous as well to a house of ill repute. Is this a Class A type of deal, because the TT and 5ers I've checked out sure aren't that way.

Every look at some of the $650K + motorhomes?

Mirrors on the ceilings, fancy decorative molding that adds nothing but costs and cleaning difficulty to the rig. Highly polished, almost mirror like wood finishes.

I've never see his bedroom, but I've seen movies of house of ill repute - as apparently have some of the motorhome interior decorators.

Nope.. so I guess that explains it. And here I thought it was in reference to what us common folk can afford. Yet another niche market.

[fulltimedaniel]

BulldawgFan wrote:
After reading this whole thread, a fee thoughts amd observations.

1) Any of us who rv know that the rv lifestyle is all about comprise. The point has been made and demonstrated that there are options out there. Ironically, the OP seems more caught up in the argument than being appreciative to those who took the time to research and find an option. Back to compromise, almost nothing will be perfect, having just attended a large rv show this weekend amd looking at a future upgrade, it's challenging to find the perfect rig. We all I bet had to compromise some feature. But there is another option, which leads to the next point...
2) Custom build. Mobile Suites recently finished their first travel trailer for a customer. All the benefits of a 5th wheel, to include storage, and built to the customers direct specs and appointments. Even so, there is still a compromise, cost amd weight. Final price was $215,000 and weight of just over 20,000 lbs. So agsin, there is an option, but with maybe the most major compromise.
3) Maybe there is an even more harsh reality. A more definitive compromise. Perhaps rving simply isn't in the cards for these folks due to cost. Perfect unit aside, we all know that even though on the surface it may seem affordable, rving full time is expensive. There are lots of things in life I would like to do, but at the end of the day there are many limiting factors. Yet another comprimise.

Perhaps the best lesson here this would teach us is have good financial planning in place directly towards your goals.

Oh yeah....and that life (like the rv industry) is a compromise.

And like the song say....You can't always get what you want.

I had intended to let this thread drop as I felt everything had been said.

But your post is interesting enough to respond to.

First If the only concern or need was 2 full bedrooms then yes you would be correct one could spend over $200k for a trailer.

But almost never is price no object and there are always other criteria. In this case I want something that will still fit into most national Parks and most of the two bedroom models that are available and that I was fully aware of before writing this post, are in the 40 foot range. If a unit is far too expensive, or too large then by definition it is NOT a choice.

Many here have only given a cursory read to some of the posts, including my original and still somehow are touting the "bunkhouse" model...Well that is what I have now and I know and don't want it's limitations. I probably saw every bunkhouse model made in the year I took to find the trailer I have now.

But my post was misunderstood and taken for a plea for help in finding such a model...that I can do. That was not the intent of the post.

The intent of the post was to say that with more than 30% of Baby Boomers being single, there is a growing trend of those singles teaming up as friends and traveling together. My guess was the RV manufacturers are not ahead of this curve.

Many here spoke of this being a "niche" market and maybe so. But somehow RV Mfg's can put Helicopters on Class A's, Decks on 5th Wheels
and other such things that certainly appeal to a much smaller market than those wanting two bedrooms.

As for RV'in not being for me or too expensive. In reality it is much cheaper than keeping a stick built house with insurance and taxes and upkeep for sure. And as I pointed out below I have Rv'd more than 35k miles since Aug of 2015 from Mexico to Canada and Alaska. I think I can safely say that I like it.

My post and it's true meaning was misunderstood by many. Perhaps that is my fault, perhaps it is the fact that many don't read what is written carefully and start typing a response too soon.

[travelnutz]

Yes, the case IS closed as all the OP had to do is a little research of RV's made already and/or in the past to fill the tiny nitch volume he'd started the thread about. Much ado about nothing!

In our over 50 years of RV'ing, we can't remember seeing or talking to any RV'ers who'd expressed a want for platonic adult bedrooms even once. Yes, there likely are some though! However, there are so many made that already overfills such a small volume need or want.

[PawPaw_n_Gram]

We looked at a moderately priced Class A diesel pusher a couple years ago.

One "feature" was a cabinet that opener out by the dining table - 12 glass knick knack shelves. Each near 1/2 sq ft. Nothing to keep them from falling or breaking while traveling, not to mention the stuff someone might put on them. Probably 15-20 minutes to pack that up, and set it back up again if a person wanted to move the rig.

A new brand of fifth wheel last year has a glass top for the dining table. Met a guy at a dealership that sells that brand, looking for a new top. He had traveled down US-69 from I-40 to McAllister OK and the table top bounced off the table on that washboard road.

Some of the things put in RVs are too fragile to go in a S&B home in my opinion.

[Stefonius]

PawPaw_n_Gram wrote:

Walaby wrote:
Not to change the subject per se, but Im still trying to figure out the references I keep seeing about Liberace's bedroom. I've never been in his bedroom, so I can't comment first hand.

Seen the reference previous as well to a house of ill repute. Is this a Class A type of deal, because the TT and 5ers I've checked out sure aren't that way.

Every look at some of the $650K + motorhomes?

Mirrors on the ceilings, fancy decorative molding that adds nothing but costs and cleaning difficulty to the rig. Highly polished, almost mirror like wood finishes.

I've never see his bedroom, but I've seen movies of house of ill repute - as apparently have some of the motorhome interior decorators.

DW and I sometimes watch RV shows on TV, and her comment on the inside views is always, "Why is everything so SHINY?"