Trucks are too tall for fifth wheel

[TURNKEY]

I'm presently towing a 1999 Jayco 23' fifth wheel. It's total weight is 6500 pounds loaded. My tow vehicle is a 2006 GMC 1500hd with a tow capacity of 7990 pounds with the 6 liter V8 and a 3.73 rear end.
I love the trailer but it's time for a new truck.
I find the 1500HD just does not have the power I want. I drive below 60 mph in 3rd gear with tow haul engaged but the truck just doesn't have the power I'd like especially we tow a lot out west through the mountains.
The problem is all the trucks I've been looking at are too tall for the trailer. The axel has already been flipped and the pin box has been raised as high as I can get it but it's still about an inch high on my present truck and all the new trucks are a lot higher.
So I'm coming to the conclusion I may have to buy a new truck and immediately lower it.
Also does an one have thoughts about whether I should get a half ton (as their tow rating are huge now!) or a three quarter ton. We will never get a huge fifth wheel, we like national parks too much, maybe a 26 foot max.

[burningman]

Lowering an already stock height 4x4 pickup isn't a viable option. You could get the rear down if you don't mind it looking like an old tail-dragging leadsled, I don't think you'll have room to bring the front down any real amount.
Anything is possible but I bet it would be easier and cheaper to raise your cover two feet. Or get a flatbed.

[Learjet]

Nevadastars wrote:
Wow, interesting thread. I recently purchased an 07 Ram Cummins 2500 4x4 to pull a future 5th wheel. Not only is the truck high stock, but we don't want to go over 12 ft center height to clear our current motor home cover.

So, any newer fiver is already at or over the height limit. If I had to raise it to match the truck bed, there is no way I could get one under our cover.

Many of the published 5th wheel heights do not include the optional front AC.

[Nevadastars]

Wow, interesting thread. I recently purchased an 07 Ram Cummins 2500 4x4 to pull a future 5th wheel. Not only is the truck high stock, but we don't want to go over 12 ft center height to clear our current motor home cover.

So, any newer fiver is already at or over the height limit. If I had to raise it to match the truck bed, there is no way I could get one under our cover.

[TURNKEY]

Yep, I've come to that conclusion too. My trailer only weighs 6450# but with all the gear I load into the truck and my wife and I, plus the 900# pin weight the new Ram 1500's don't have enough load capacity and the Ford or Chev only have a couple hundred pounds leeway. Any 3/4 ton will be more than enough.....BUTthey are all so tall!!!!

So back to my original problem. I don't want to raise the trailer any more so I have to lower the truck?????

[JIMNLIN]

TURNKEY wrote:
Wow thanks for that info Old Biscuit....or should I say Old Biscuit-Wan Kenobi. A little googling was very informative and somewhat reassuring in that you CAN compare apples to apples but the difference in tow ratings between my 2006 1500hd (basically a 3/4 ton drivetrain on a half ton frame) and the new half tons is huge! As I've said before I'm rated for 7990# and now you can easily get 11000# in a half ton. I can't believe manufacturers were sand bagging before, how did the ratings increase so much?

Your comparing eleven year old tech to the newest technology ('06-'17).

Seems like most don't know what a '00-'06 1500HD truck is. The trucks frame is the old C6P chassis used on the 3/4 and one ton trucks we all used before the 9000 HD chassis came along.
The 1500HD has a 8600 gvwr and 6000 rawr 4500 fawr 6.0 engine with the 4L80 transmission 3.73 or 4.10 gears with the 10.5" corporate full floaters 16" E tires and wheels.
The max payload of the 1500HD was 3129 lbs. and came with a 10k+ tow rating.
**This info was found in the 2006 Chevrolet Truck Order Guide**

A couple of points .......Your '06 6.0 is down on power when compared to the newest 6.0 offering plus a different tranny.

The new gen 1500 GM can have a 4000 rawr or the NHT package at 4600 rawr which are good for around 2000-2200 lbs in the bed vs your '06 1500HD with 6000 rawr good for over 3000 lbs in the bed.

Sure the new 1500 truck have lots more power for higher tow rating but they simply don't have your trucks load carrying capacity.

Don't forget mfg trailer tow ratings aren't just for a rv trailers but all types of trailers.
I use my 16k triaxle GN trailer behind the wifes 4wd '16 1500 chevy 5.3/4000 rawr. I can partition off say a load of heavy beef so most of the weight is on the trailers axles and still stay within the truck 4000 lb axle/wheels and P tire ratings. So yeah her truck can pull its 9600 lb tow rating.....with the right trailer type.

I see a gear change or a new 3/4 ton truck in your future... good luck

[mkirsch]

In fewer words, the truck could tow 11,500lbs if the trailer had the perfect 10% tongue weight so as to not overload the truck.

Where are you going to find an 11,500lb travel trailer with 10% tongue weight that tows stable?

[atwowheelguy]

4Kellys wrote:
Those tow ratings are still BS. My 2011 F-150 Eco-boost had a tow rating of 11,500 but I was almost overweight with a trailer weight of 7800.

I'm sure you understand that the "tow rating", which is GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating)-truck weight, and the "haul rating", GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) are two entirely independent ratings. If you were towing a four wheeled trailer, or one equipped with a Trailer Toad, the truck could handle a 11,500 lb. trailer safely. If you choose to not use a Trailer Toad and instead load the entire tongue weight on the truck, then the truck chassis GVWR will likely be exceeded with a 11,500 lb. trailer. My understanding is that boats may be safely towed with a tongue weight of 5-7% of the trailer weight. For a 11,500 lb. boat and trailer, that would be 575-805 lbs. It would be possible to carry a tongue weight in that range without overloading an F150. Campers should be loaded at 10-15% tongue weight. It's unlikely that a F150 can tow a 11,500 lb. camper without a Trailer Toad without being overloaded.

Since the 2015 model year, the GCWR has been determined by a test, SAE J2807. So now they have to actually test a truck with the total GCWR without exceeding the GVWR. If they show a "tow rating" now, they have actually tested a truck towing a trailer with that weight, without overloading the truck.

The GCWR is a measure of the capability of the engine, transmission, driveline, cooling system and brakes. The GVWR is a measure of capability of the chassis and suspension to support a load on the truck. The truck will perform satisfactorily up to the limit of either. It would take a special circumstance to be able to reach both limits.

I'm not sure how the manufacturer would address your complaint. They say don't exceed either limit. If you can load your particular trailer to get it up to the GCWR without exceeding the GVWR, it will work. If your trailer can't be loaded that way, that is not a shortcoming of the truck manufacturer. Maybe they should say, "Maximum trailer weight of 11,500 lb. if you can load it without exceeding the GVWR or the GAWR of the truck."

Maybe try one of these:

Moderator edit to re-size picture to forum recommended limit of 640px maximum width.

[4Kellys]

Those tow ratings are still BS. My 2011 F-150 Eco-boost had a tow rating of 11,500 but I was almost overweight with a trailer weight of 7800.

[mkirsch]

rhagfo wrote:
So towing level is some times hard to get to, the final step we needed to do was install a Correct Track system, 2" of lift is part to the package.

Yeah, you've already lifted the trailer and you're driving a 2001 Dodge, which was the lowest of the big three at the time.

If you traded in on a 2016 RAM, you'd have to figure out how to raise your trailer another 4-6" to clear a STOCK height truck...

[Bipeflier]

I've used McGaughy lowering shackles like these on my 2011 and now my 2016 Silverado. Drops the back end about 2".

[rhagfo]

burningman wrote:
Even if you've already done the axle flip I still think lifting the trailer a bit more is a lot more viable than lowering the truck, especially a 4WD.
I do think a 3/4 ton is a better choice, regardless of what the sales brochures say the 1/2 ton can do, the heavy duty 3/4 ton pickup will tow that trailer much better.
Driver fatigue on road trips in lighter trucks loaded heavy vs. heavier duty trucks with the same load (well below their capacity) is a real factor, tested by my own seat of pants. It's just an easier drive in the truck that's having an easy time.

One other thought, you could probably tow at a lower height if you got a flatbed... they make nice polished aluminum ones, with removeable sides.

So towing level is some times hard to get to, the final step we needed to do was install a Correct Track system, 2" of lift is part to the package.
This is us with the Copper Canyon on the tow home from the dealership.



This is how the package sits today.

[burningman]

Even if you've already done the axle flip I still think lifting the trailer a bit more is a lot more viable than lowering the truck, especially a 4WD.
I do think a 3/4 ton is a better choice, regardless of what the sales brochures say the 1/2 ton can do, the heavy duty 3/4 ton pickup will tow that trailer much better.
Driver fatigue on road trips in lighter trucks loaded heavy vs. heavier duty trucks with the same load (well below their capacity) is a real factor, tested by my own seat of pants. It's just an easier drive in the truck that's having an easy time.

One other thought, you could probably tow at a lower height if you got a flatbed... they make nice polished aluminum ones, with removeable sides.

[Grit_dog]

TURNKEY wrote:
The Ram air suspension automatically raises back to normal ride height at 15 mph. Interestingly enough it squats a bit at 62 mph.

And it's not a glorified half ton.:R The 1500hd had the SAME drivetrain and suspension and axles as a 2500, the only difference was the frame was lighter and seeing as I don't haul a camper or other frame torqueing load I thought it would be a good truck. The 2006 2500 had a towing capacity of only 9900 # (higher than my 7900# probably due to the 4.10 rear end vs my 3.73)

How are the new half tons able to tow 12000# with basically the same engine? Is it just new electronics or does the 6 spd make that much difference??? The same engine and rear end on a 2016 GMC 1500 half ton it rated at 10900# That's a third more than my 20061500 hd

Well, must have struck a nerve there about your beloved old heavy half ton. You clearly don't have much knowledge to make the claim you did. Short answer, lighter frame and lighter duty rear axle in the 1500hd vs the 2500 HD. (They made kind of a bastard 2500 for a couple years too. Like 99-00 which was not a real full floater axle, basically a 1500hd with different badges ) But in 06 it wa as totally differ et vehicle than a 2500.
Basically the same engine is like saying a 4.8 liter Chevy from 1999 and a new 6.4 Hemi are basically the same engine because they both have 8 cyl.
Btw I'm not dogging on your old truck. They are great trucks, but you're getting caught up in emotion when you asked an objective question.
I gave a couple suggestions that you chose not to respond to. Have a nice day

[TURNKEY]

The Ram air suspension automatically raises back to normal ride height at 15 mph. Interestingly enough it squats a bit at 62 mph.

And it's not a glorified half ton.:R The 1500hd had the SAME drivetrain and suspension and axles as a 2500, the only difference was the frame was lighter and seeing as I don't haul a camper or other frame torqueing load I thought it would be a good truck. The 2006 2500 had a towing capacity of only 9900 # (higher than my 7900# probably due to the 4.10 rear end vs my 3.73)

How are the new half tons able to tow 12000# with basically the same engine? Is it just new electronics or does the 6 spd make that much difference??? The same engine and rear end on a 2016 GMC 1500 half ton it rated at 10900# That's a third more than my 20061500 hd