Another guy confused about diesel

[Jimbee]

Hey All,

Not trying to add to the "Diesel vs Gas" debate, but like many other readers who are contemplating the Diesel upgrade I'm confused about just how needy the new Diesels are. In my area diesel is pretty much 70 to 90 cents per gallon more. I'm ok with that if the mileage is better and helps offset that difference. But what about all the various fuel additives I see on the shelves at the auto parts stores? Are they really necessary? Cold weather anti-wax/gel build up? Hot weather fungicides? Monthly fuel filter changes?
Temperamental fuel pumps that disintegrate and ruin the engine and aren't covered under warranty?

I love the idea of diesel power but the fear factor sure makes it hard to come up with the extra $10K.

Hard to choose sides of the fence!

[old_guy]

well the one thing that confuses me about the diesel thing is how many times on this forum I have seen posts of guys who are going from diesel back to gas. I sit here with a gas truck and wish I had a diesel truck.

[ktmrfs]

wildtoad wrote:
Not a diesel guy, but seems to me when comparing diesel to gas in regards only to mpg, you have to include not only the price of the fuel, but the cost of DEF for the new engines. Cost of ongoing maintenance is a different discussion, but one worth having.

Def costs me about $10 for each 6-7K miles, a whole $0.002/mile, yes .2cents/mile. Heck tires cost roughly 10x that/mile!

As far as maintenance costs, other than oil filter changes, air filter etc. that is normal maintenance, my 04.5 has cost me $0.00 in other maintenance in 190K miles. Neighbors also have diesels, again, zip costs other than normal maintenance in over 200K miles on the current 2014 for or old 7.3. (other than tranny issues on the old 7.3 but that is no longer an issue).

ok, the diesel needs 10qts oil instead of 6, (well, each of my cars take 8.5qts) but no plugs every 100K, and yup an extra battery, a whole extra $75 every 5-10 years.

Those who say diesels are higher maint. costs are usually those who don't have a diesel.

true, the fuel cost/gallon is no longer in favor of diesel, at least in winter. But for mileage diesel wins. Heck, my 2015.5 duramax running 5 over the limit from Portland to central montana averages consistently 19mpg. non towing.

So, IMHO decide on diesel vs. gas based on what you want, ignore differences in maint. costs, they are in the noise.

[naturist]

Diesels get 30-40% better fuel mileage than a gas engine with similar performance. This is a function of the thermodynamics of having a higher compression ratio (16 or 17 to 1 vs 8 or 10 to 1). Of course, you can get higher power engines of either sort which will change that mileage differential in obvious ways. Most trucks use some of that fuel savings to give you better pull for the diesel version.

As for additives, mostly snake oil, just as with gas additives.

One important detail is that diesels are pretty much all turbocharged, whereas gas trucks are mostly not. This alone makes a vast difference in the mountains. Turbo engines do not lose power at altitude because the turbo simply works harder to supply air at the same pressure regardless of altitude. I have a turbo diesel BMW X5 SUV as my tow vehicle, and have noted it pulls every bit as hard at 11,000 feet on I-70 west of Denver as it does here in the Appalachians at 800 feet.

[SidecarFlip]

Jimbee wrote:
Hey All,

Not trying to add to the "Diesel vs Gas" debate, but like many other readers who are contemplating the Diesel upgrade I'm confused about just how needy the new Diesels are. In my area diesel is pretty much 70 to 90 cents per gallon more. I'm ok with that if the mileage is better and helps offset that difference. But what about all the various fuel additives I see on the shelves at the auto parts stores? Are they really necessary? Cold weather anti-wax/gel build up? Hot weather fungicides? Monthly fuel filter changes?
Temperamental fuel pumps that disintegrate and ruin the engine and aren't covered under warranty?

I love the idea of diesel power but the fear factor sure makes it hard to come up with the extra $10K.

Hard to choose sides of the fence!

My take is this...

If you plan on keeping the truck for an extended time at least 5-7 years) and you want to have a capable truck with good resale value when you do sell it, get the diesel.

If you trade every couple years or are planning on leasing, get the gas motor.

Diesels are a long term investment. Mine is a 1997 Ford 7.3 and it looks and runs as good as the day I bought it. Sure, maintenance and fuel is more but with me, I plan on running it at least another 5 years and every year it appreciates in value. It's worth right now, 75% of what I paid for it in '97.

[Lwiddis]

I may drink snake oil but I never add snake oil additives to my engine.

[agesilaus]

No additives needed. You get a diesel for:

the towing ability
the ability to pull up steep slopes at highway speed
The ability to go down steep slopes using the engine brake and not burning the wheel brakes
the longevity of diesels and their ability to hold their selling price
They also get much better mileage when towing heavy and that makes up the price difference
You could expect 16-19 mpg with a HD diesel truck when not towing and 9 to 11 when towing.

[ScottG]

You get a diesel because it does the job better, not because of any cost of ownership reasoning - which is insignificant when comparing to gas engines.

When it comes to fuel additives, they are no more needed with diesel than they are with gas (the shelves are full of gas additives too!).

[wildtoad]

Not a diesel guy, but seems to me when comparing diesel to gas in regards only to mpg, you have to include not only the price of the fuel, but the cost of DEF for the new engines. Cost of ongoing maintenance is a different discussion, but one worth having.

[Grit_dog]

You shouldn't ever need to add anything to your fuel tank except fuel, save for the one off possibility you get stuck in an extreme cold snap with fuel that's not blended for the climate. In 30 years of construction and 1000s of diesel powered engines, I've seen this happen exactly once. So not a general concern at all.
Fuel filters are mileage based 10-15k miles generally are the maint intervals. Again not obtrusive or difficult, although some of the newer trucks have more expensive filters. You may spend $100 buying a set of filters or waaay more if you're a take it to the dealer kind of person.
Guess I don't think diesels are generally all that finicky, but I've been around them long enough that theyre common place to me.

[LIKE2BUILD]

Jimbee wrote:
But what about all the various fuel additives I see on the shelves at the auto parts stores? Are they really necessary?

Not really. I have used it in the winter as a preventative because my truck doesn't get driven everyday. But, I also haven't been faithful about adding it to each tank so I'd say the truck runs just fine with or without the additives.

Jimbee wrote:
Cold weather anti-wax/gel build up? Hot weather fungicides?

Fresh fuel from a busy fuel stop is your best friend. Suppliers change between summer and winter blends so unless you spend days at well below freezing temps there shouldn't be an issue.

Jimbee wrote:
Monthly fuel filter changes?

Never heard of that one. My OEM monitor system on my Ram is set for 15,000 miles for both the oil change and fuel filters....which is basically a year of driving for me. Every time I've changed the oil filters they've looked a little dirty, but nothing awful.

Jimbee wrote:
Temperamental fuel pumps that disintegrate and ruin the engine and aren't covered under warranty?

Early versions of the Bosch CP4 pump in Ford and GM trucks ('12-'13 MY?) had some issues. There are horror stories of OEM's callings these 'maintenance issues' and not covering them under warranty. There are other stories where the dealerships said 'hey, sorry man, the HPFP failed and we'll replace it and get you on the road ASAP.' I haven't heard of these issues in a while and I think there were updates to the pump design to avoid this issue.

Jimbee wrote:
I love the idea of diesel power but the fear factor sure makes it hard to come up with the extra $10K.

Hard to choose sides of the fence!

I understand there can be costly repairs in a diesel. My truck has had a few recalls (water pump, steering bracket, emissions system, etc...) but it has been really reliable. I've driven it for 60,000 miles in 3 years and it has been great pulling any heavy load I've hooked to it. There are a lot of folks that gripe about the after-treatment system and want to delete it ASAP. Mine has been fine and it really isn't big deal filling up with 5 gallons of DEF every once in a great while.

[4x4ord]

The new diesels are amazing and get about 9-10 mpg towing a 12-15k fiver. In the long run a diesel will cost you a little more but if you buy one I doubt you'd ever regret it.

[LanceRKeys]

There are just as many gas additives as diesel. They help just as much as the buyer is willing to think they do.

[midnightsadie]

all that additives is just snake oil. use good diesel fuel and forget it.