can't get the gvwr math to work

[tianna_veum]

I want to buy a Bigfoot 25C9.4SB and a short bed srw crew cab diesel to match. Everything I read says "gvwr gvwr gvwr - never violate your trucks gvwr!".

ok.

So, Bigfoot says their camper is 3K pounds "dry" but truck camper magazine says plan for 4K pounds to account for water, propanne and "gear".

Ford tells me a f350 short bed srw crew cab diesel has a max payload of 3.5K pounds with "a 150 pound passenger at each avaiable seating position".

Since I'm the only passenger, I figure the truck's max payload is probably closer to 4K pounds.

Is this to close? 4k camper on a 4k capable truck?

If so, then I can go for a gas engine instead of the diesel which buys me about 500 pounds. But, I would prefer diesel over gas.

Would appreciate advice.

tianna

[Grit_dog]

jaycocreek wrote:

ardvark wrote:
As I see it, the issue is very simple. Either you give credence to the manufacturers' ratings and warning or you don't. What more is there to say?

Well,I find it really hard to take the manufacturers ratings with anything else than a grain of salt..

Example:2011 Dodge 3500 DRW with a payload of 2500 lbs..That,s over 2,000 pounds less than my 1994 Ford F-350 Ex cab and less than some 1/2 ton pickups.

Specs and Dimensions
Compression ratio: 17.20 to 1
Engine horsepower: 350hp 3,000RPM
Rear legroom: 1,151mm (45.3")
Payload: 1,148kg (2,530lbs)
Front headroom: 1,041mm (41.0")
Turning radius: 7.1m (23.4')
Passenger volume: 4,055L (143.2 cu.ft.)

When I was just browsing Dave Smith auto in CDA Idaho I found two Dodge 3500 Duallies with only 2500 pounds of payload(empty) which loaded with fuel and passengers would be more like 2,000 pounds payload,one a 2011 and the other a 2007(I think they both had 11.5 rear axles).Now we all should know a Dodge 3500 DRW should be able to carry something more than the smallest campers made without a slide out.

So that's my example of manufacturers ratings not meaning much to me.

No, there's no dually with only 2500lb payload. That's a typo, I guess unless there's a 10k gvw derated class of dually.
But yes, you're correct, the number readers will assume they can't haul much with that dually and some will argue it's only that capable!

[JIMNLIN]

op wrote:
I want to buy a Bigfoot 25C9.4SB and a short bed srw crew cab diesel to match. Everything I read says "gvwr gvwr gvwr - never violate your trucks gvwr!".

Typical rv website stuff.
For the rest of the trucking world out here when we look at the same one ton DRW truck we look for the one with the bigger GAWRs....mostly RAWR as its carrying most if not all the load.

Big rig trucks do not have GVWRs.....just GVW = sum of the trucks axle ratings. GVWR based payload sticker or gvwr simply isn't used to determine how much weight a truck can legally/safely carry....just like before the internet and rv websites.

Your state (CA) vehicle size and weights commander says in a email from a rv owner asking if gvwr/gcwr is used in determining weights....;
snipped for length
**Section 1085(d) of Title 13 California Code of Regulations prohibits the loading of tires above the maximum load rating marked on the tire, or if unmarked the maximum load rating as specified in the applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard, or in a publication furnished to the public by the tire manufacturer. This would most likely happen in the case of a pickup truck towing a large fifth wheel travel trailer, as those types of trailers tend to transfer a larger portion of their weight to the last axle of the towing unit causing that axle to exceed the tire load limits.**

Just stay under the truck makers axle/tire load ratings for safety reasons and no worries of any civil lawsuits for being overloaded.

[ardvark]

I'm not trying to argue for or against. Everyone has a rationale for the decisions they make, payload weights being no exception. Simply stating a fact. Either you go by the manufacturers' ratings or you decide to go by a rationale of your choosing.

Manufacturers' ratings can depend on any factor on the truck, so although folks focus on what they think are the obvious ones, it does not mean that is what the rating is based on.

[jaycocreek]

ardvark wrote:
As I see it, the issue is very simple. Either you give credence to the manufacturers' ratings and warning or you don't. What more is there to say?

Well,I find it really hard to take the manufacturers ratings with anything else than a grain of salt..

Example:2011 Dodge 3500 DRW with a payload of 2500 lbs..That,s over 2,000 pounds less than my 1994 Ford F-350 Ex cab and less than some 1/2 ton pickups.

Specs and Dimensions
Compression ratio: 17.20 to 1
Engine horsepower: 350hp 3,000RPM
Rear legroom: 1,151mm (45.3")
Payload: 1,148kg (2,530lbs)
Front headroom: 1,041mm (41.0")
Turning radius: 7.1m (23.4')
Passenger volume: 4,055L (143.2 cu.ft.)

When I was just browsing Dave Smith auto in CDA Idaho I found two Dodge 3500 Duallies with only 2500 pounds of payload(empty) which loaded with fuel and passengers would be more like 2,000 pounds payload,one a 2011 and the other a 2007(I think they both had 11.5 rear axles).Now we all should know a Dodge 3500 DRW should be able to carry something more than the smallest campers made without a slide out.

So that's my example of manufacturers ratings not meaning much to me.

[jcphil]

ardvark wrote:
As I see it, the issue is very simple. Either you give credence to the manufacturers' ratings and warning or you don't. What more is there to say?

Truth.

[ardvark]

As I see it, the issue is very simple. Either you give credence to the manufacturers' ratings and warning or you don't. What more is there to say?

[jaycocreek]

The internet has made the GVWR more important than it really is.Before the internet,I never thought twice about GVWR or even once..I just put the camper I wanted,within reason,on the back of the truck and made improvements if necessary which I never did, except for helper springs..

I had three different 10FT+ campers on a 3/4 ton truck with nothing else but extra springs of some sort.One was pretty heavy with extra sway in the corners..I just drove slower on curvy roads without any problems at all.

Just this last year was the very first time I ever weighed a truck and camper because it had me curious about all the GVWR chatter on the net.It's just silly..Period..

To the last poster,my front and rear axle weights exceed the GVWR by 1,000 pounds whatever that means on the internet.(laughing)..

Soon the TC'ers are going to be close to 20 feet high and the floors even with the bed rails..Truck camping has changed big time!

[jimh406]

Hey, I can easily stay under the 150 average if I bring the grandkids or count the dogs. 🙂 FWIW, my FAWR and RAWR on my sticker for my F450 exceeds the GVWR.

[mkirsch]

Camper weight rating is typically calculated with a 150lb person in each seating position. PAYLOAD is calculated with just a 150lb driver.

Yes, 150lbs. I know we're all a bunch of fatty-fat-fat-fatties, but never underestimate a manufacturer's desire to pump up the numbers any way they can.

One thing I have yet to see anyone mention in this thread is the FAWR and RAWR of the truck. This is the TCer's "escape clause" allowing you to go ahead and exceed your truck's GVWR without causing the wheels to fall off and kill puppies.

On commercial trucks the FAWR and RAWR add up to the GVWR of the truck. On pickup trucks, the GVWR is hundreds to thousands of pounds less than the sum of the axle ratings for some reason.

An F350 SRW or similar truck has a RAWR of around 7500lbs with stock tires, and an empty weight of around 3000lbs, giving you almost 4500lbs of payload capacity in the bed over the rear axle, where the bulk of the TC weight ends up.

[wnjj]

OutdoorAddict wrote:
Better up that passenger weight, 150lbs, really??? Not in America!

With more than 2 seats, that’s a fair number for an average considering the other seats are often occupied by children.

[OutdoorAddict]

Better up that passenger weight, 150lbs, really??? Not in America!

[jcphil]

What about the truck manufacturer's overall "This truck is not recommended for use with a truck camper" rating? It is based on federal statute. You see it a lot in the 1/2 ton and midsized truck sector (eg. Every Ram 1500 but the regular cab 2x4 w/ the V6, some of the Ram 2500s w/ the diesel, the GM Colorado/Canyon twins). I wonder if it is critical to heed this manufacturer recommendation, even if staying under GVWR.

[burningman]

Horsehockey. It doesn’t mater if it’s made with the exact same parts, if you exceed the factory rating on your particular truck, the wheels will fall off and crash through a puppy farm, maiming or killing all of them.

[Supercharged111]

Another thing to consider is whether or not there was a chassis cab version of your truck and what was it rated to? In my case, the chassis cab duallies of my year were rated to 12k instead of 10k. This tells me frame, axles, brakes, driveline are all good for that. 10,000# is a magical cutoff between Class 2 and Class 3 trucks, so I'm sure there are taxes and **** to be had off of that. In my case the only real difference in trucks was additional upper overloads and a different transfer case (and of course frame rail width). I slapped on some airbags and the truck handles the camper just fine.

[Grit_dog]

JimK-NY wrote:
I love the diesel brake. I have driven my truck for over 80K miles. The camper has been on for almost all of those miles. There were lots of miles driven in the mountains. After all those miles, at the last oil change I was told about half of the brake pad thickness remains.

True statement. 1st real drive with truck camper on the truck was also with a newly installed exhaust brake.
2500miles through a lot of mountains and there was hardly any brake dust on the wheels.
Before the E brake, front wheels would have been brown instead of silver by the time we got there!