Diesel Tuners
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โSep-12-2014 05:35 PM
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โDec-03-2014 11:54 AM
Bob Vaughn wrote:
I received an email and video from Trailer Life about Bully Dog GT tuners for diesel engines. It all sounds good but I have been warned that the warranty would be voided if I use a tuner. Now I wonder if this is true. If so then I guess I will have to wait until my warranty is up. It is 699 bucks and I wonder if there is enough of a fuel economy savings to ever break even?
I used a Hypermax ECON tuner on my 6.0 Powerstroke. The good news is that it picked up my mileage by 2-3 MPG and gave my noticeably more torque.
The bad news is that I blew a head gasket and the shop said it was because of the tuner. $7500 for the repair bill
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โNov-22-2014 06:49 AM
As to the question of whether it will pay for itself with improved mileage. The answer is this: Yes, no, or maybe. I have had my chip on for 8 years/ 100K miles now. It probably paid for itself in the first few years, but with the chip you are guaranteed to drive it differently, so it is nearly impossible to say. The first few years I drove it in the economy setting and I got far better mileage. I now always drive it in Economy setting and ignore other settings, including 'Tow' and 'Race,' even when towing I tow in Economy and get 13.5 mpg (hand calculated) towing a 11500 lb. fifth wheel. Not towing I get 17 mpg in town and on a recent long unloaded trip not towing, 23 mpg with the cruise set at 75MPH.
As for the yes, no, maybe... Yes you can pay for it eventually. No, you will eventually drive it differently and faster, thus using more fuel. Maybe, if you don't use the advantages of the additional power, you can reduce the operating cost, save money and eventually pay for it. They will produce more addictive power, and the manufacturers are well aware of it. Just look at the games they play with it. Remember the 390/397/400 hp competition between GM and Ford a few years ago? They are only concerned about cost per unit reductions leading to more profit.
2012 Ford F-250 Super Duty, Crew Cab, Lariat, 6.7L PSTD, Air Lift rear suspension.
Alpenlite Valhalla Limited Fifth Wheel, two Solar panels, four six-volt batteries, two Honda EU2000i generators
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โNov-20-2014 06:53 AM
2018 Ram 3500-SRW-4x4-Laramie-CCLB-Aisin-Auto Level-5th Wheel Prep-Titan 55 gal tank-B&W RVK3600
2011 Outdoors RV Wind River 275SBS-some minor mods
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โNov-19-2014 09:50 AM
Boy Racers knew/understood most of this and the inherent risk management
(gambling) decisions
Also agree timing is the biggest bang for the buck and the bottom line for that
is increasing PSI on the piston
In the not too distant past, premium & lower stat were required.
The OEMs fixed that by making the new stats almost impossible to fiddle with and
that there are no longer lower temp stats available. I modify mine (GMT400) by
drilling holes on the flange of a 180* stat
SMOG is no longer just a Calif requirement, but all states. Diesels are now
tested in 'some' states/areas (know you know this, but for those who don't)
Diesel SMOG is now settling down just like gassers after the 1980 SMOG mandates,
but the level of power available is going to continue to be lower than pre-SMOG.
Unlike gassers...or maybe they will figure that out too
Pre-chambers are in the works, but think GDICI will come out before
pre-chambers makes it to volume production. Diesels do not have
anything in the pipe that I can find. Since GDICI's power curves looks
so much like diesel, thing diesel will see lots of folks jump back to
gasoline...but GDICI's SMOG profile now looks much like diesel, think
more work will product onerous SMOG whatevers for GDICI
There is a need for higher performance (speed and recycle times) diesel injectors
to pre-start way before the traditional diesel advance...to the traditional
big squirt of diesel
Know that some of the piston & CC work on gasser GDICI will make it's way to diesel
Back on topic...boy racers knew most of what you say about gauges (why, HOW2
manage, etc). I'm seeing none boy racers jumping and not truly understanding
HOW2
Not just WOT, but high throttle settings and not just boulevard cruising, but
towing several tons on inclines, high ambients, etc for hours and hours on end
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...
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โNov-18-2014 03:48 PM
Emissions dictates a lot for how the combustion event takes place inside the cylinder, and most of it decreases the power/efficiency.
Consider that Cummins makes a 480hp 5.9 and 550hp 6.7 for the marine application, the components are stronger than what is made in a pickup. Yes there are some differences in how a boat motor and truck motor use power, but it's still a substantial amount of power over the pickup ratings.
Many of the limiters/safeties are there to protect the engine and drivetrain under WOT driving at GCWR. Many people don't want, or feel the need, to monitor additional gauges when they change the tuning. IMHO even a simple 40hp tune needs additional monitoring, especially when towing.
Many people also get caught up in how easy it is to add hp to a diesel, and go to the highest setting on day one with a stock turbo/trans and no gauges.. and then wonder why they blew a trans or melted a piston.
2018 Ram 3500-SRW-4x4-Laramie-CCLB-Aisin-Auto Level-5th Wheel Prep-Titan 55 gal tank-B&W RVK3600
2011 Outdoors RV Wind River 275SBS-some minor mods
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โNov-18-2014 02:31 PM
counters) dictate the cheapest that will pass the regulatory agency
mandated certification testing...plus a bit of design margin to allow
it to go past warranty.
'How much' is the biggie in all product team discussions which has
'service' division requirements.
The 'apparent' willy-nilly changes in ratings is the OEM's marketing
playing with that design margin in concert with sign off from the
service division (lawyers are there throughout). I've chaired product
teams where service was 'told' to sign...even over their exec's objections
This topic is about diesel tuners, so anyone ever wonder where that
'extra' power comes from?
Some or the majority of it comes from the tuner software changing
and/or removing the safeties dialed in by the OEM. Meaning the levels
of limp mode are removed and power mode is now allowed in more situations
that would have had the OEM software deny it
Most don't own their trucks long enough to suffer the consequences of
consuming the design margins, so they see it as power left on the
negotiation table by the OEM
The down stream owners are the ones who will suffer the consequences
Why do you think there are now becoming more and more thread from folks asking if they should by 'this used truck'....with the correct
answers/advice asking if that truck has been chipped/tuned/etc
N-Trouble wrote:wintersun wrote:
It is not credible that some guy has discovered something about how to change the tuning of an engine that escaped the hundreds of professional full time engineers at the auto and engine manufacturers.
If this line of thinking were true then we would not have any type of "aftermarket" for ANYTHING because the manufacturers would be producing the very best possible components for our trucks directly from the factory. THat is what your statement implies... If so I have a set of 6mo old factory GM shocks I will sell you off my 2500HD for the price of a new set of Bilsteins. Because afterall GM engineers should know how to build a better shock than Bilstein right???
Do you see how your argument just fell apart right there?
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...
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โNov-18-2014 01:06 PM
wintersun wrote:
It is not credible that some guy has discovered something about how to change the tuning of an engine that escaped the hundreds of professional full time engineers at the auto and engine manufacturers.
If this line of thinking were true then we would not have any type of "aftermarket" for ANYTHING because the manufacturers would be producing the very best possible components for our trucks directly from the factory. THat is what your statement implies... If so I have a set of 6mo old factory GM shocks I will sell you off my 2500HD for the price of a new set of Bilsteins. Because afterall GM engineers should know how to build a better shock than Bilstein right???
Do you see how your argument just fell apart right there?
2012 GMC 2500HD SLT Duramax
B&W Turnover w/Andersen Ultimate 5er hitch
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โNov-18-2014 12:56 PM
Bionic Man wrote:2oldman wrote:wintersun wrote:It's only credible to those who believe in conspiracies.
It is not credible that some guy has discovered something about how to change the tuning of an engine that escaped the hundreds of professional full time engineers at the auto and engine manufacturers.
Actually, it makes sense to me. Tuners play by different rules. "Offroad use only". You can do a lot if you don't pay attention to EPA regulations.
Even playing by the rules and keeping current emissions intact there are several tuners (PPEI, DmaxTuner, ATP) that are getting really good numbers out of the Dmax/Allison platform without sacrificing mileage or driveability. SO its not all about EPA/emissions...
You also have to consider the fact manufacturers tune these trucks with warranties in mind as they can be a significant cost adder to the manufacturer if they are accelerating failures that can occur on their dime within the warranty period and not the consumers.
2012 GMC 2500HD SLT Duramax
B&W Turnover w/Andersen Ultimate 5er hitch
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โNov-18-2014 11:50 AM
Voided warranty = no
Increased mileage = not very noticeable either way and I really wasn't concerned since I run B-100 for the last 400k or so
I did EFI Live because it enabled me to tune in a turbo brake on my 2006 and allowed us to avoid the dreaded sooted/clogged turbo that plagued the 2007.5 Cummins. Gonna be 9 years and they're still running strong and have good oil analysis from Blackstone.
Edit: I can't really claim B-100 for the whole 400k because we have to blend during the cold weather.
EFI Live
DSP5
TransGo Jr.
B-100 made in a Bio-Pro 190
2006 Day Dreamer 5th Wheel
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โNov-18-2014 10:32 AM
It's not the most powerful programmer/tuner you can get, but Stage 3 is a real kicker (+87 HP and +173TQ). Stage 2 gives 52 HP and 108TQ. It is an absolute difference in power.
The programmer takes a snapshot of the OEM programming before applying its settings. I can restore the original programming at any time, which I do when getting smogged here in CA, and has always passed. Then I just reprogram to stage 2 or 3.
As far as mileage is concerned, I couldn't tell you (though it's certainly not any worse), but that's not why I got it. Actually, the main reason I got it was because my speedo was off when I changed to larger 285 tires many years ago, and wanted something to adjust the speedo. I went to a race shop and they a Hypertech product to do that, but for not much more I could get the full power tuner included, so I opted for that, and am very glad I did.
2005 GMC 2500HD Duramax/Allison 4x4 Crew Cab S/B
www.imagesbyberto.com
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โNov-16-2014 03:34 PM
Bionic Man wrote:Amazing.
You can do a lot if you don't pay attention to EPA regulations.
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โNov-16-2014 12:57 PM
ol Bombero-JC wrote:
No need for "tuners".
Improve air in and air out, sure!
~
That hasn't been an issue for over a decade, or more.
When Dodge went HPCR the intake/exhaust were oversized, enough that substantial hp can be added with stock intake/exhaust. The 03-04 exhaust and intake are slightly lower flow than the 04.5+ stuff, but none the less in and out is the last thing to worry about.
When cruising, where good mileage is had, the airflow in/out is a fraction of pulling a 6% grade at GCWR so how is a improving airflow going to do anything for mileage?
I have a far from stock motor with a bigger cam and turbo, but my intake basically stock with a baffle removed and a extra 3" inlet. The air filter is stock and with over 100rwhp more than stock I don't need more intake air. The exhaust is just the stock 4" with a different muffler setup, again plenty of air.
Modding the intake/exhaust for flow on a stock, or even +100-150hp tune, is a waste of money. Modify it for volume/tone or leave it stock.
2018 Ram 3500-SRW-4x4-Laramie-CCLB-Aisin-Auto Level-5th Wheel Prep-Titan 55 gal tank-B&W RVK3600
2011 Outdoors RV Wind River 275SBS-some minor mods
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โNov-16-2014 08:33 AM
2oldman wrote:wintersun wrote:It's only credible to those who believe in conspiracies.
It is not credible that some guy has discovered something about how to change the tuning of an engine that escaped the hundreds of professional full time engineers at the auto and engine manufacturers.
Actually, it makes sense to me. Tuners play by different rules. "Offroad use only". You can do a lot if you don't pay attention to EPA regulations.
2003 Dodge Ram 3500 QC SB 4x4 Cummins HO NV5600 with Smarty JR, Jacobs EB (sold)
2002 Gulf Stream Sea Hawk 29FRB with Honda EV6010
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โNov-16-2014 07:32 AM
I have found buying new isn't going to be a magic pill. It just comes with good health insurance.
If I would buy 1997 and older. I can avoid any smog testing. I just have to make sure the tuners don't make smoke.
Compared to a new truck 1500 bucks is cheap. ๐
I haven't seen any posts on the banks 6 gun or the like. Anyone have one. Are they Calif. Street legal? They claim they were the first street legal. Is that just a selected few parts?