Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[desrcr]

Wahhhhhh
protective group aren't we.

[dshelley]

desrcr wrote:
I'm not flaming,If I read a statement based purely on opinion not fact
I'll feel free to respond.
I don't take sides in the diesel/gas debate, but I hate ignorance.
I love and hate both for different reasons.
I'm new to this forum, but I have been pulling for years(gas and diesel).

"What rock are you out from under."

"to state there is no way a gasser can pull a 38ft trailer is just stupid."

Yes, this is flaming, and no it wasn't necessary. Stating an opinion is one thing, but to outright insult another for stating his, is, yea you guessed it, flaming.

[desrcr]

I'm not flaming,If I read a statement based purely on opinion not fact
I'll feel free to respond.
I don't take sides in the diesel/gas debate, but I hate ignorance.
I love and hate both for different reasons.
I'm new to this forum, but I have been pulling for years(gas and diesel).

[JIMNLIN]

desrcr wrote:

longrider1100 wrote:
AlStar250, your right!!! A 7000 pound TT doesn't need a diesel or even a big block.

Each driver and Trailer has specific needs and wants. That's why both gas and diesel are built. You would be hard pressed to find a gasser that would safely pull a 38 foot 5er so then you look at diesel.

Its that simple. What are you pulling (weight) and what are you happy with.

What rock are you out from under.
All those silly 30ft+ class A GAS motorhomes pulling enclosed trailers or cars are "unsafe"?
When I was a kid we towed everthing with gassers, the idea that is not doable now that deisel trucks are available is absurd.
I have a V10 because it was a steal when I bought it from a freind.
I pull a 30 ft TH with ease and many of my freind drive BIG class A gas MH's with trailers full of toys.
I will not say gas is better, but to state there is no way a gasser can pull a 38ft trailer is just stupid.

WOW. For a new member you need to read our guideline on flaming. Its ok to disagree with others views but its not necessary to flame ["crawled out from under a rock"/ "his statement is stupid"].
His statement/point is valid if you read it close ["hard pressed to find a gasser"] doesn't say a gasser won't pull a 38 ft 5er.........JIM

[desrcr]

longrider1100 wrote:
AlStar250, your right!!! A 7000 pound TT doesn't need a diesel or even a big block.

Each driver and Trailer has specific needs and wants. That's why both gas and diesel are built. You would be hard pressed to find a gasser that would safely pull a 38 foot 5er so then you look at diesel.

Its that simple. What are you pulling (weight) and what are you happy with.

What rock are you out from under.
All those silly 30ft+ class A GAS motorhomes pulling enclosed trailers or cars are "unsafe"?
When I was a kid we towed everthing with gassers, the idea that is not doable now that deisel trucks are available is absurd.
I have a V10 because it was a steal when I bought it from a freind.
I pull a 30 ft TH with ease and many of my freind drive BIG class A gas MH's with trailers full of toys.
I will not say gas is better, but to state there is no way a gasser can pull a 38ft trailer is just stupid.

[Tinman13]

Work at the Space Center and drive disel,we started using this bio-fuel about 2 years ago.I have herd a number of people say they are having injector problems.I was wondering if any problems with the bio-fuel up north in the winter?

[XKarDoc]

Very well said Camper G. I wrenched for over 45 years before retiring and I couldn't agree with you more.

[Camper_G]

I read a few pages of replies and I figured I'd throw my .02 into the pot FWIW.

I have been wrenching since I was about 12yrs old (go-karts back then). I have worked professionally on Medium and Heavy truck (gas and diesel) in the past.

I think some of the posts that addressed your perticular situation were accurate.

If you are towing a large TT or 5'er, then IMO diesel is the way to go. I don't think the maintenance is much of an issue for me personally, but again I do all of my own wrenching. Living here in PA, you have to be concerned with the fuel gelling in the winter time, but we always left our trucks plugged in overnight so it was not a major issue (except when certian route drivers did not plug their trucks in overnight, then called us screaming that their truck would not start in the morning....but I won't go there).

For me, my 89 Chev 4x4 with the 5.7 is just fine for what I do. I tow a lightweight 22' TT that weighs about 3200 dry. The biggest TT I will probably ever own is 24', so I probably won't ever need the diesel. I keep my Chevy garaged, and one thing that turns me off about the diesel is the horrible exhause smell. I did test drive a 5.9 Cummins TD in a 2500 series ram one time (5-speed). I loved the brute power of the diesel, but I found the limited RPM range to be annoying personally.

With 144K on the clock (of my Chevy) the engine is getting tired, and when it gives up the ghost, I may just upgrade to a 454 or 400 small block. I also generally only camp once per month between April and October.

Again my opinion is that you must have the right "tools" for the job, depending on the "size" of the job that needs to be done. Gassers and Diesels each have their place.

My .02

[Jbird]

Old : 2002 3500 8.1 4wd,4.10 Club
New: 2006 3500 Dura,4wd,3.73 Crew
Towing 36'2003 Travel Supreme Express in both cases.

Summers in the Colo Rockies. Summer 2005 overall mpg: 7.3 (8.1)
Summer 2006 " " 10.9 (Dura)

Solo,65-70 mph. 8.1 averaged about 10.5,got as high as 13
Dura averages about 16.5,gets as high as 19.5

In years past, my friends towing a 29' FW with the same engine configuration as mine,but a 2500, ran away from me on passes. This year,no comaprison. With my diesel and a trailer weighing about 4K more, I am way faster up the passes. The Duramax is unbelievable to an old gasser like me--2 Ford 460s,one Dodge V10, and the 8.1.

[bluenote]

sack,

You continue to prove you do not pay attention to what is (and has been) written. I absolutely did not say a diesel is the only option and that big blocks aren't strong enough to even get out of their own driveway, yet you outright accuse me of making such claims. Once again, you make generalizations, try to apply them to specifics and then wonder why someone who is more reasonable in their arguments calls your statements into question. Feel free to do a search of my posts regarding the issue. I have stated numerous times that the current big block engines are excellent for towing applications. I cannot understand how you continue to miss the point, make sweeping generalizations and then act as if you are victimized by someone pointing out the obvious to you. Please get your facts straight next time and stay away from making statements on behalf of other people if you'd like to have a more effective discussion.

[sack1]

If you think it takes 300-400K to recoup the cost of buying a diesel, you are sadly mistaken. You are guessing at numbers, some of us have actually experienced the difference. My point is that you call into question someone else's statement, then make a generalization as if it proves your point. I just wonder why you continue to argue in such a fruitless way.

Blue,

Fruitless way? I think not. To listen to you and others who see nothing other than diesel is to be talking to a brick wall. To listen to the dribble laid down here pertaining to the need for a diesel and that nothing else will do is nonsense. It's a wonder at all that I can even get out of my own driveway listening to such rot. Fact of the matter is I do just fine, no diesel needed. Our combined weight is in the 19k range and we do just fine, even towing into the mountains. So why is it you feel compelled to push that driving a "gasser" is such a liability?

My comments about driving 3-400k miles on a diesel engine weren't to say that was the break even point but it is often used by the diesel bunch as a reason for purchase in the first place. It's seems to me it's a lot like having your cake and eating it too. Sorry, but the bottom line is that the "gassers" do a fine job and are tough enough to get the job done too. And I'm speaking of the BIG block gas rigs and not people chiming in on how they had to race their small blocks to unheard of rpm's just to get over a hill and then compare that to their new much more expensive turbo diesel. What kind of comparison is that?

As I've mentioned before, these BIG blocks are not merely car engines but stronger built truck engines. The 8.1, for example, is used in many marine applications (20% of the General's output). Anyone who knows boating knows the demands placed on engines there.

Would I consider ever buying a diesel? Yes. But only if we went to a significantly heavier 5th wheel and I needed the extra torque. As it is I rarely need all that the 8.1 can deliver as I rarely have to put my foot all the way into it. I also would think about a dually towing a heavier trailer. It's not all about what's under the hood.

[Rvndave]

Have over 50,000 miles on our diesel, trouble free I might add. I get 20-25 MPG to and from work. I have more power, and better fuel economy than any stock gas engine. Our old 7.3 PSD went 213,000 miles before trading in, had very little engine trouble, water pump was the most major. While those that have problems will complain long and loud, you might hear little from those of us that are thrilled with our diesels. As far as all the extra maintance goes it is app 6 quarts of extra oil, and a fuel filter every 15,000 miles.

[longrider1100]

AlStar250, your right!!! A 7000 pound TT doesn't need a diesel or even a big block.

Each driver and Trailer has specific needs and wants. That's why both gas and diesel are built. You would be hard pressed to find a gasser that would safely pull a 38 foot 5er so then you look at diesel.

Its that simple. What are you pulling (weight) and what are you happy with.

[AlStar250]

I have been looking for quite some time at ALL related forums and forum boards. As recently as 6 months ago, I was dead-set on a new diesel. The more I read on the various diesel forums, the more I see one recurring theme. I took 3 major diesel forums into consideration, and all together, there are well over 200,000 threads on maintanence issues alone. Truck won't start, bad turbo, fuel pump lifter dead, bad injectors, error codes in the ECU, no power, loss of mileage...etc etc etc. The list goes on and on guys and its starting to scare me, think about it >200,000 threads means theres still ALOT of issues with the seamingly "bulletproof" diesels out there, not to mention what complications the ULSD will produce in a current/older truck that wasn't designed for it (Canadian guys are already speaking of increased injector failures). I have a Weekend Warrior 25ft Ultralite that weighs in at 6500-7000 lbs (depending on cargo), and my F1505.4 is a joke to the point that we tow it with either my cousin's Armada or my buddies Titan instead and I just go in on gas while watching movies in the back seats. The point I'm trying to make is, for someone like me whos options aren't really to buy a brand-new diesel (w/that saviour of a warranty) will I be looking at the beggining of a major head-ache as far as maintanence and repair go for a used diesel with +/- 75k or higher (thats my price range) or will I be just as happy with a used GM 6L or even a newer(used) 3v V10 Ford? To which I have talked with several people who own gassers and have had none of the issues that are bombarding the diesel forums pages.

[me1magoo]

None are trouble free, BUT none are as TROUBLESOME as the 6.0L has been and continues to be. Read up on the 7.3L forums and the 6.0L forums and you will see the difference. MY vote is if you like the Ford, be patient and find a 7.3L with a 6 speed manual trans. Don't be afraid of some mileage, just service everything when you buy it. The 7.3L came with the 4R100 as the auto tranny and it is not the best, but if you can NOT shift gears it will work, but will need more TLC to tote a heavy trailer and does not like towing in O/D so will slow you down or burn a lot more fuel to turn the higher RPM's especially if you have lower gears. The 6.0L has had a horrible launch and life and is about to end soon with the release of a 6.4L by Ford and International to replace it. I could not see myself allowing them to use me as their R&D department again so I will be sticking with my Dodge Cummins forever. My voice is that of someone who got burned permanently by the "sicks-OH", so take it for what it is worth and go read the forums, you will see the difference between the enthusiasts and the "oh crap" guys and the quantity of "oh crap" on the 6.0L forums.