Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[Burl_Swift]

Interesting thread, I think I read all of it...

Anyway, I have a 1/2 with a Hemi with a Lifetime warrenty on the Powertrain, which was a big selling point for me. I can't afford a diesel truck (I like them though), but then again I don't really need one.

I think thats what it really boils down to, what you need. I don't have a 15k lbs 5th wheel, nor do a pull a trailer full of horses. I hope to soon have an 18ft Toy Hauler for my small three member family. My engine has all the power I need, and I get great gas milage while not towing thanks to the MDS system. I'm sure I'll lose the milage while towing...but I don't tow weekly so its not really a factor.

I think the important thing to remember here is that it doesn't matter what we're towing with, no one kind of powerplant makes someone vehicle "cooler" or "better" than anyone elses. We're all in it for the fun of traveling and spending time with family and friends, thats the important stuff.

Besides...all trucks are cool! 🙂

[Paul_Clancy]

And diesel is always more expensive in winter as it is also used for home heating oil. Here the price has already come back to par with gas.

[bluenote]

hawkeye-08 wrote:
With the higher upfront costs, higher fuel per gallon fuel costs (hopefully the mileage is better than a gas engine) and higher maintenance costs, face it, a diesel powered pickup/SUV is going to cost more to operate than a gas rig.

I've owned and operated both and what you are saying is not accurate.

Here are the facts....

Higher upfront cost - Yes, but making this statement without acknowledging the higher resale value down the road conveniently ignores part of the truth. Do an Edmunds, or KBB search for similarly equipped used trucks and you will see significantly higher trade-in/resale prices for diesel engines.

Higher fuel costs - While this is unfortunately true throughout the country now, it is not as much of a spread as you are claiming everywhere. We are seeing about a 20¢ difference in my area right now. However, for the sake of argument, I'll use your price difference, with my actual experience (I previously owned a pickup with a big block gasser and now own the diesel pickup in my signature. I've pulled the same 5er with both, driven the same routes locally and have the same driving habits with both trucks)...
Big Block empty - 12 mpg average (combined city/highway)
Diesel emtpy - 18 mpg average (combined city/highway)
Big Block towing - 8 mpg average
Diesel towing - 11 mpg average
If you were to figure $3/gallon for gas and $3.60/gallon for diesel, it would cost me $250 for the gasser and $200 for the diesel to drive 1000 miles emtpy. It would cost me $375 for the gasser and $327 for the diesel towing the same distance. If you were to use the 20¢ difference in fuel costs in my area, the diesel savings would obviously be even higher.

Higher maintenance costs - This always gets brought up during the discussion and I've found it to be flat out wrong. It costs me about $5 - $10 more per oil change with my diesel than the big block. However, since the recommended oil change interval is significantly higher with the diesel, it is actually less per year for diesel oil changes. I do have a higher cost for fuel filter changes, but that is easily offset by the oil change savings. All other components on my truck require the same maintenance, so there are no other differences.

Face it, the diesel can still cost less to own and operate than a similarly equipped gasser for many people.

[hawkeye-08]

Interesting at the start of this, Diesel was usually cheaper than gas. Here in eastern Washington state now, diesel seems to be about $.60/gallon higher than gas. The days of justifying buying a diesel for the payback are over. With the higher upfront costs, higher fuel per gallon fuel costs (hopefully the mileage is better than a gas engine) and higher maintenance costs, face it, a diesel powered pickup/SUV is going to cost more to operate than a gas rig. As for the longevity, my 92 Suburban is running fine with 240,000 miles and my 98 Yukon is running fine with 150,000 miles. Neither use oil between oil changes and are easy and cheap to work on. Both have the original engines and transmissions. I want a diesel crewcab to pull a big trailer but I don't have a big trailer or a diesel because the budget doesn't allow it. If your budget allows it, get it. My choice will be a GM if I can ever afford one. The Fords seats end up hurting my back or I might consider one.

[Duravin]

I think it's more than a dollar and cents issue. It's about getting the best truck you need to enjoy RVing and balance that with all the environmentmental and long term political issues. Diesel vehicles have come a long way and of course there was an impact on prices due to the development of cleaner technologies. We have to find ways to maintain a balance between our freedom to enjoy our RV life style and the development of sustainable alternative energies to reduce our dependence on Oil. On a bigger scale, we have have to find ways to implement long term policies to safeguard our lifestyle for generations to come, while reducing the negative impact on the environment. The least we can do is give it some thought.

[DoubleWrap]

kah68 wrote:
These threads are pointless, everyone has an opinion and thinks everyone else needs to know it.

OK, then I would suggest you don't read or post on them, since they seem to be pointless in your opinion.

Now maybe we can get back to the point for those who have constructive comments and opinions that are not pointless.

[bluenote]

kah68 wrote:
These threads are pointless, everyone has an opinion and thinks everyone else needs to know it.

Thank you for making sure everyone else knows your opinion. :R

[kah68]

These threads are pointless, everyone has an opinion and thinks everyone else needs to know it.

[Steakman]

Yup the price of diesel has gone up big time no question. I wonder how much one will pay over a 10 - 15 yr period totally...I mean fuel and vehicle costs and who will come out ahead..?


There's not too many gasoline driven cars/trucks that will get over 200,000+ miles. Yet there's plenty of diesels that have well over that # and still going strong.

I know of nobody who had managed to wear out a diesel truck...

So yea, I might have to pay significant $$ now for fuel & maintenance & maybe some new foam for the seats & maybe a water pump and a few sets of tires etc, but I'll still be towing with this unit in 10 years and then, after it's got better than 350,000 miles on it. Bet on it. (I drive 35k annually)

So no need to buy another new vehicle for what, 35+K dollars by then..?? A bargain in me eyes byes.!

...and besides, ya can't make BioGasoline.!

.."appleseed" away. (research that term)

cheers, Stk

[homesbehindme]

The added cost of the diesel engine up front makes it a bit hard to justify. It will usually get better mileage than the gas engine though. I have heard the break even point for most diesel vs gas vehicles is somewhere around 200,000 miles. That being said, I drive a Chevy with a Duramax, mostly because of the power, but also because of the mileage. I get 16 to 18 when towing my PUP. The same when empty. My last gas engine was a Chevy V-8 (don't remember size) and it was VERY whimpy. Mileage was not quite as good either. I have no complaints with the diesel, where I did with the performance of the gas, so I'll stick with diesels for now.

[rowekmr]

I hestitate to chime in on this debate because although I have been towing boat trailers for 10+ years (8000#-9500#) I am very new to travel trailers. My 06 Explorer Ltd 4.6l 4wd (rated to 7200#) pulls my scale weighed 8000# boat/trailer just fine in and out of congested city traffic, over the road in through the hills. It can pull it up the steep ramps without going to 4wd lo like the 98 Explorer 5.0 AWD did before it (didn't have low). I started pulling a heavy 27" boat (guesstimate 9000) on triaxle trailer back in 95 and when my 78 Econoline ext conv 250 van w/460 (rated 8800) got to expensive to maintain I rented the Uhaul Chev bare pick up trucks with the 4.8L 2wd and it did fine (well some tire slippage on ramp if boat wasn't all the way fwd) so I never subscribed to the bigger=equal better. The other TV on ramps would be diesel duallies pulling a 18-20" boat that barely weighed 3000# and I was in a single well pick up pulling a very heavy sturdy built 27". Of course I always got stares adn now especially with the Explorers I would get the popular "You can tow that with that?". My boats would be loaded to the gills and all tanks full and the trucks would have 3 adults 2 kids and all that we needed for the day and when the temps were over 90 I drove with the a/c on (od off). I really hestitated considering going larger TV when I got my 31BHDS empty weigh of 7500# cause I pulled my buddies 8500+ boat/trailer combo out of the water through the city streets to the next state. I got ahold of this forum and narrowed my affordable choices down to the Sub 6.0 and the Ex I didn't like the gas consumption of the 8.1 and they are so few. I drove 2 Burbs with the 6.0 and they felt weaker than my Exp and when I drove the Ex it seemed more stout and solid just out of sheer size but it also didn't seem that peppy but from years of driving commercial diesel straight trucks I knew that pulling power doesn't always equate to off the line acceleration. I pulled home the TT with my Exp just to see how it would handle so I would know how much more power I would need. It pulled it ok to me its just that the rear end was way low even with the dealer installed and adjusted Equalizer hitch. None of the boats I pulled cause more than 1 or 2 inch drop of my bumper and this thing had my nose in the air. I then looked for a good clean Excursion but diesels for less than 16K are hard to come by and after reading all the V-10 supporters here saying its a hard towing vehicle I took the plunge. After finding one 2 hrs away for about 8K w/ext warr and spending almost half the price on getting everything straight I was really disappointed the first pull to the trailer dealership to get the hitch head readjusted. The Oasis said it had the 4.30 so unless one of the previous owners changed that it has what many profess to be the best towing combination. I kept saying to myself I should have gotten a diesel (don't hate me v-10 supporters). I will admit the Ex platform is much more stable to tow compared to my Exp but its hp to weight ratio doesn't seem that good to me. I get about 2100-2200 rpms at 60 mph on stock sized replacement tires, does that sound right for the 4.30? After going 80 miles with it I did get a little more adjusted but I believe it will either be the Banks kit or maybe a smaller trailer. I can't see going up steep inclines with this combo and I know you have to rev it I just don't like hearing all those rpms. I had it put on the FOrd computer twice. It gets about 14-16 on the expressway on the lie o meter at 60 mph, hadn't gone steady enough for the hand calculations. I drove the Expeditions before as an alternative and they disappointed me but to be frank the seat of the pants pull felt a little stronger. I've had the best mechanic here (service writer sends his mother's and friends's car to) go through everything that this forum suggested and even a few things I thought of so unless something new comes up that can be fixed I will be sniffing "tha fumes" myself.

[SRockwood]

JIMNLIN wrote:
the number of dedicated diesel powered trucks that just tow a RV is but a drop in the bucket of real world diesel truck use. I bought the Cummins just for those higher mpgs (21-23 highway commute) on my 600+ mile a week commute and other duties other than just to pull a RV. Most others that live out here do the same. A second reliable car is to big of a cost especially keeping it running and certainlly doesn't make cents or sense for my use or others that live out here. Now if you live in town and have a short commute a second car may make cents for you. My reasons for owning a diesel are mine and your reason for not owning one are yours. They certianly make cents for me.
JIM

There is no doubt that many people use their trucks for things other than just towing an RV, and I didn't mean to imply that. There were, however, a lot of people bragging about their truck's unloaded mileage. This means they're not hauling loads in it, which means any vehicle would be just as capable (many more capable).

I would say that if you have a really short commute to work, a commuter car makes ZERO sense. Why pay $5-6k, extra registration, insurance, etc to save a couple of bucks.

For those that have 600+mile/week commutes, it's more than worth it if all they're doing is driving to work in it and sitting in a cube all day (which many of us do).

My point is Ford/Dodge/GM built these trucks to haul heavy loads, not sit in traffic carrying a whopping 200 lbs worth of payload (one person). I see a lot of 5'er/WD equipped (which tells me RV for the most part) diesel 3/4+ tons driving to work empty save for one guy in a suit here in SoCal. Makes me wonder how many of these people need to be commuting in their large, thirsty 3/4+ ton vehicles.

Either way, we begin to digress. On to beating the dead horse! 😄

[JIMNLIN]

the number of dedicated diesel powered trucks that just tow a RV is but a drop in the bucket of real world diesel truck use. I bought the Cummins just for those higher mpgs (21-23 highway commute) on my 600+ mile a week commute and other duties other than just to pull a RV. Most others that live out here do the same. A second reliable car is to big of a cost especially keeping it running and certainlly doesn't make cents or sense for my use or others that live out here. Now if you live in town and have a short commute a second car may make cents for you. My reasons for owning a diesel are mine and your reason for not owning one are yours. They certianly make cents for me.
JIM

[Jarlaxle]

My 7000+lb truck gets better mileage than my Caddy, about the same as my Caprice. I know of nobody who had managed to wear out a diesel truck...my 92 F-350 is still running with close to 400,000 miles. Liz's K-5 Blazer is rotted far beyond reasonable repair, but runs perfectly at 195,000 miles.

[SRockwood]

Jarlaxle wrote:

why not spend that $5-6k price of entry on a commuter car?

Because then I'm driving a roller skate instead of a truck. Why spend lots of money on a truck and keep it parked most of the time?

Lasts longer that way? Why spend lots of money on a truck to tow the expensive trailer and spend lots more money on fuel when you're not towing the trailer?

My question was for those who mainly use the fuel mileage argument.

Personally, I'm not a fan of driving a behemoth every day. They're harder to park, ride worse, handle like poo, get bad mileage (even diesel) and are more expensive to repair when they fail.

If you bought your truck to tow the trailer, why not just use it when you're towing the trailer? Otherwise, you're spending loads of cash on a fashion statement.

Either way, I posted that as a solution for those who buy a diesel for the sole reason of saving money.