Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[Sport45]

sacmarata wrote:
In my opinion the old 12 valve Cummins are darn near bulletproof. I've had other trucks come and go but my '94 Dodge Cummins keeps chuggin along with ZERO mechanical errors at 324,000 miles. I did break a fuel filter once when setting my idle. Fixed it for free with a zip tie 🙂

I'm a little confused. Why do you buy other trucks when you already have the 12V Cummins that seems to be perfect for you?

[sacmarata]

In my opinion the old 12 valve Cummins are darn near bulletproof. I've had other trucks come and go but my '94 Dodge Cummins keeps chuggin along with ZERO mechanical errors at 324,000 miles. I did break a fuel filter once when setting my idle. Fixed it for free with a zip tie 🙂

[spud1957]

I will preface by saying that I am a fan of diesels if I needed one or felt my gasser was not up to the task I give it.

I haven't read anyone comment on the DPF replacement on DPF equipped diesels. They say they need to be replaced around the 100K mile mark at a cost of $2000+. Have an injector go bad? It too might destroy your DPF as well. Just to be fair, lets add this to the cost of owning certain vintages of diesels.

S

[bigg-limo]

sacmarata wrote:

SWAGGER wrote:
not sure this this been posted but is a recent study from 2013

http://www.dieselforum.org/files/dmfile/20130311_CD_UMTRITCOFinalReport_dd2017.pdf


Overall, the results of our analyses show that diesel vehicles provide owners with a TCO that is less than that of the gas versions of the same vehicles. The estimates of savings for three and five years of ownership vary from a low of $67 in three years to a high of $15,619 in five years, but most of the savings are in the $2,000 to $6,000 range, which also include the extra cost that is usually added to the diesel version of a vehicle.

Do you know if this includes paying for simple maintenance? I consider simple maintenance to be oil and filters.
At the rate that some places charge for diesel oil and filter change, it could quickly skew the Cost of Ownership numbers as compared to a gasser.

I've known some perfectly capable folks who pay for diesel oil changes instead of doing it themselves and heard reports of oil changes upwards of $250 simply because it's a diesel!

Without giving a thorough overview of the report, I bet the numbers reported could improve a lot more even.

$250 X 5 times a year = $1250. It wouldn't take long for that to do some SERIOUS damage to your cost of ownership. I'm not sure what an oil change station would charge for a 6+ liter gasser oil change, but I've never heard anything even close to $250.

I would also like to submit that not everybody has to have the newest diesel. Theres several "old technology" diesels out there that are WAAAY less costly to maintain. My '94 Cummins being one of them. I've never used any additives EVER and my oil changes only cost what I spend in oil 🙂

Where are they going to get there oil changed? I'd like to know so that I never show up there. The most I've ever paid on an oil change was between $120-$140,...and that was the PMs on my medium duty Freightliners and my Motorhome that had a 15L Cat in it. My pickups, I pay $68 at Wally World for Rotella. If they wanna give money away, pm me for my address.

[waynec1957]

sacmarata wrote:

SWAGGER wrote:
not sure this this been posted but is a recent study from 2013

http://www.dieselforum.org/files/dmfile/20130311_CD_UMTRITCOFinalReport_dd2017.pdf


Overall, the results of our analyses show that diesel vehicles provide owners with a TCO that is less than that of the gas versions of the same vehicles. The estimates of savings for three and five years of ownership vary from a low of $67 in three years to a high of $15,619 in five years, but most of the savings are in the $2,000 to $6,000 range, which also include the extra cost that is usually added to the diesel version of a vehicle.

Do you know if this includes paying for simple maintenance? I consider simple maintenance to be oil and filters.
At the rate that some places charge for diesel oil and filter change, it could quickly skew the Cost of Ownership numbers as compared to a gasser.

I've known some perfectly capable folks who pay for diesel oil changes instead of doing it themselves and heard reports of oil changes upwards of $250 simply because it's a diesel!

Without giving a thorough overview of the report, I bet the numbers reported could improve a lot more even.

$250 X 5 times a year = $1250. It wouldn't take long for that to do some SERIOUS damage to your cost of ownership. I'm not sure what an oil change station would charge for a 6+ liter gasser oil change, but I've never heard anything even close to $250.

I would also like to submit that not everybody has to have the newest diesel. Theres several "old technology" diesels out there that are WAAAY less costly to maintain. My '94 Cummins being one of them. I've never used any additives EVER and my oil changes only cost what I spend in oil 🙂

I've had my 2013 Duramax for six months. It had right at 5,200 miles on it when I had the oil changed last week at the dealership for $80.The DIC still said 30% on the oil life. I would have let it go a little longer but it was still OEM oil plus we're taking a 6 day trip next week. But...that's 5,200 miles without towing.

The week before I added 3.5 gal of DEF at $36. My fuel filter still reads 89% so I don't know what that will cost when the time comes. Probably next oil change. I don't see any way I'll have 5 oil changes in a year at 5k mile intervals. It may be less than that now that summer is finally here and we can hit the road some.

[johninedmonton]

I had my trailer out this weekend for the very first time with my diesel. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! In my gasser I really couldn't break 60mph. In the diesel, I cruised along comfortably at 65-70, without any real strain on the engine.

[sacmarata]

SWAGGER wrote:
not sure this this been posted but is a recent study from 2013

http://www.dieselforum.org/files/dmfile/20130311_CD_UMTRITCOFinalReport_dd2017.pdf


Overall, the results of our analyses show that diesel vehicles provide owners with a TCO that is less than that of the gas versions of the same vehicles. The estimates of savings for three and five years of ownership vary from a low of $67 in three years to a high of $15,619 in five years, but most of the savings are in the $2,000 to $6,000 range, which also include the extra cost that is usually added to the diesel version of a vehicle.

Do you know if this includes paying for simple maintenance? I consider simple maintenance to be oil and filters.
At the rate that some places charge for diesel oil and filter change, it could quickly skew the Cost of Ownership numbers as compared to a gasser.

I've known some perfectly capable folks who pay for diesel oil changes instead of doing it themselves and heard reports of oil changes upwards of $250 simply because it's a diesel!

Without giving a thorough overview of the report, I bet the numbers reported could improve a lot more even.

$250 X 5 times a year = $1250. It wouldn't take long for that to do some SERIOUS damage to your cost of ownership. I'm not sure what an oil change station would charge for a 6+ liter gasser oil change, but I've never heard anything even close to $250.

I would also like to submit that not everybody has to have the newest diesel. Theres several "old technology" diesels out there that are WAAAY less costly to maintain. My '94 Cummins being one of them. I've never used any additives EVER and my oil changes only cost what I spend in oil 🙂

[parkersdad]

waynec1957 wrote:
This being my first diesel, I was concerned about the DEF and the regen as well. After 5 months, and 3,800 miles I'm sure it's went through the regeneration more than once but I've never noticed it. I haven't got to tow with it yet so maybe when I do that'll be different.

I check the DIC a couple times a week and so far it says the levels are ok. According to the manual it'll give a warning when you need to fill it within 1,000 miles and then again at 500 miles so I would think there should be plenty of warning.

This is how I feel as well. I was scared of diesel but not that I have one I don't know if you could get me to go back to gas.

[campin_in_the_r]

DEF, besides being available at most auto parts stores, is also available at the pump at many Pilot and Flying J stations (at least out here in the wild west). I'm up to about 3,000 miles on my rig and have gone through about 3-4 gallons of DEF. I certainly wouldn't hinge my decision to buy a rig based on the DEF requirement.

[waynec1957]

This being my first diesel, I was concerned about the DEF and the regen as well. After 5 months, and 3,800 miles I'm sure it's went through the regeneration more than once but I've never noticed it. I haven't got to tow with it yet so maybe when I do that'll be different.

I check the DIC a couple times a week and so far it says the levels are ok. According to the manual it'll give a warning when you need to fill it within 1,000 miles and then again at 500 miles so I would think there should be plenty of warning.

[parkersdad]

I only use the stuff in the auto parts store. It comes with a long hose and the 2 1/2 gallons you get will give me about three quarters of a tank.

[Hannibal]

transamz9 wrote:
Other than a hot smell for a few minutes I never even know it's in regen. I can only smell it when sitting still while it's doing it. As far as the DEF. I don't understand why people want to run it so low that it goes into limp mode. It's not like you have to fill it every day. Mine got to 3/8 tank and I just picked up a jug and poured it in. It shows full again.

I agree. It appears to be readily available in auto parts stores now. No reason to let it get low.

[transamz9]

Other than a hot smell for a few minutes I never even know it's in regen. I can only smell it when sitting still while it's doing it. As far as the DEF. I don't understand why people want to run it so low that it goes into limp mode. It's not like you have to fill it every day. Mine got to 3/8 tank and I just picked up a jug and poured it in. It shows full again.

[jim_summers]

Could someone comment on all the DEF & "regen" problems I read about in the diesel forums. it doesn't seem it's GM only. Ram & Ford owners are complaining also about "regen" & associated low power & the keeping DEF fluids at the right levels to prevent more "low power" problems. My `03 Duramax doesn't have these. I'd love a 2015 Duramax, but this new stuff is scaring me off. Thnx in advance

[OhhWell]

Taco wrote:
It looks to me like the GM twins averaged 2000 less to own over 5 years, the ram diesel cost 578 MORE and the ford cost 763 MORE.

I don't see where that article shows that any diesel pickup truck had a dramatically lower cost to own. It also shows the same amount of fees and taxes per vehicle and at least in my state between sales tax and personal property tax the diesel truck would cost substantially more in taxes.

Also keep in mind that the study was prepared for (paid for by) bosch the same company that makes that fragile, craps out to the tune of 10k because of a drop of water fuel pump that causes so much grief. How much faith would you have in a study about the health effects of smoking sponsored by phillip morris.

I saw a study on caffeine as a diuretic, sponsored by the coffee industry.

It's tough to find a good impartial study as there usually isn't any money in it. There is money in a study that someone is sponsoring and not shy about telling you what they want you to find.