Florida I-75 TT Accident

[WTP-GC]

Yesterday when traveling north on I-75, we hit a snag...traffic backed up for a few miles. There was an accident up around MM370, which is just south of Gainesville. As we approached, we saw a 30 plus foot TT laying on its "curb" side in the left lane. And as we passed it, there was the TV, cocked sideways with side damaged, rear end up in the air (but upright). The TV looked like an Escalade/Tahoe/Yukon, in that mid-2000's year range.

Now I don't intend to start a nasty argument about the TV perhaps being an incapable vehicle for that size trailer, but that was the first thing that came to mind. I have a LEO relative that was working the accident (saw him when we passed by), so I asked for some info. It appears the driver "lost control". There were some other comments from him as well, but in the name civility, we'll keep those private 😉

[transamz9]

spoon059 wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:
It's pure physics, the wrong tow vehicle can not handle keeping a too long TT from swinging/jack knifing when confronted with 'everyday' occurrences on the road such as wind, semi's passing by, or a sudden correction if another driver cuts you off, or having to brake suddenly etc. A 'correct' tow vehicle will be able to handle unexpected incidences that can and does happen on the roads we travel.

Respectfully, the competence and ability of a driver is often more important than the "wrong tow vehicle".

I investigated a wreck years ago that involved a F350 towing a Bobcat loader. It was a construction company vehicle, Bobcat and trailer. The guy hauled that Bobcat on that trailer with that truck for years, never had a problem. This time when he loaded it, he was distracted and didn't pull far enough forward with the Bobcat and didn't have enough tongue weight. He started to get sway, didn't know how to handle it and eventually lost control and flipped the trailer and truck. The Bobcat was well within the weight ratings of the trailer and truck, but incompetence caused the wreck.

Now, perhaps if he had a class 8 Volvo pulling that trailer then only the Bobcat and trailer would have flipped over, but the wreck would have happened none the less.

My father-in-law drove trucks for a living for a long time. I don't have any doubt that he could pull a long heavy trailer with a Tacoma and get there safely. He might destroy the drivetrain in the process, but he would get there safe. He knows how to control trailer sway (proper loading prevents it, applying trailer brakes stops it), he knows how to scan the road ahead of him and have sufficient following distance. He knows to gear down and maintain speed on inclines and declines. He would be fine.

On the other hand, my mother-in-law could immediately wreck a 1 ton pulling a pop up, because she just doesn't have the first clue how to tow, turn with a trailer, back up, change lanes, etc.

The tow vehicle is not the issue here, a competent driver is.

A lot of the "unexpected incidents" to which you make reference are only "unexpected" because the driver is oblivious. I know how my rig is effected by passing trucks, getting passed by trucks, or encountering a truck in a different direction. I keep constant 360 visual as I drive and am aware of trucks and how they will interact with me. I am prepared for a push or pull, it isn't a surprise to me.

I always know who is next to me and where I can safely escape. I try not to drive with a vehicle immediately next to me. I can't always avoid it, but when I am boxed in and have no path of escape I always provide a larger cushion with vehicles in front of me. That gives me a larger window to escape a problem situation.

I watch the car in front of me, the car in front of that car, and the car in front of that car. If I see them slowing down, that's usually a good indication to me that I should be preparing to slow down. I don't wait until the guy in front of me has locked up his brakes... I am already downshifting, using my exhaust brake and if need be, my service brakes. Very rarely am I surprised on the road.

Most tractor trailers barreling down the road at 80K lbs and doing 68 mph have a MUCH longer distance to stop than us RVer's do. The reason that most OTR drivers have millions of accident free miles isn't because they can stop faster or those 80K lbs rigs handle better... they simply pay WAY more attention to the road and anticipate problems before they occur.

Could not have said it better myself.

[spoon059]

rockhillmanor wrote:
It's pure physics, the wrong tow vehicle can not handle keeping a too long TT from swinging/jack knifing when confronted with 'everyday' occurrences on the road such as wind, semi's passing by, or a sudden correction if another driver cuts you off, or having to brake suddenly etc. A 'correct' tow vehicle will be able to handle unexpected incidences that can and does happen on the roads we travel.

Respectfully, the competence and ability of a driver is often more important than the "wrong tow vehicle".

I investigated a wreck years ago that involved a F350 towing a Bobcat loader. It was a construction company vehicle, Bobcat and trailer. The guy hauled that Bobcat on that trailer with that truck for years, never had a problem. This time when he loaded it, he was distracted and didn't pull far enough forward with the Bobcat and didn't have enough tongue weight. He started to get sway, didn't know how to handle it and eventually lost control and flipped the trailer and truck. The Bobcat was well within the weight ratings of the trailer and truck, but incompetence caused the wreck.

Now, perhaps if he had a class 8 Volvo pulling that trailer then only the Bobcat and trailer would have flipped over, but the wreck would have happened none the less.

My father-in-law drove trucks for a living for a long time. I don't have any doubt that he could pull a long heavy trailer with a Tacoma and get there safely. He might destroy the drivetrain in the process, but he would get there safe. He knows how to control trailer sway (proper loading prevents it, applying trailer brakes stops it), he knows how to scan the road ahead of him and have sufficient following distance. He knows to gear down and maintain speed on inclines and declines. He would be fine.

On the other hand, my mother-in-law could immediately wreck a 1 ton pulling a pop up, because she just doesn't have the first clue how to tow, turn with a trailer, back up, change lanes, etc.

The tow vehicle is not the issue here, a competent driver is.

A lot of the "unexpected incidents" to which you make reference are only "unexpected" because the driver is oblivious. I know how my rig is effected by passing trucks, getting passed by trucks, or encountering a truck in a different direction. I keep constant 360 visual as I drive and am aware of trucks and how they will interact with me. I am prepared for a push or pull, it isn't a surprise to me.

I always know who is next to me and where I can safely escape. I try not to drive with a vehicle immediately next to me. I can't always avoid it, but when I am boxed in and have no path of escape I always provide a larger cushion with vehicles in front of me. That gives me a larger window to escape a problem situation.

I watch the car in front of me, the car in front of that car, and the car in front of that car. If I see them slowing down, that's usually a good indication to me that I should be preparing to slow down. I don't wait until the guy in front of me has locked up his brakes... I am already downshifting, using my exhaust brake and if need be, my service brakes. Very rarely am I surprised on the road.

Most tractor trailers barreling down the road at 80K lbs and doing 68 mph have a MUCH longer distance to stop than us RVer's do. The reason that most OTR drivers have millions of accident free miles isn't because they can stop faster or those 80K lbs rigs handle better... they simply pay WAY more attention to the road and anticipate problems before they occur.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

rockhillmanor wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:

fla-gypsy wrote:
This we know; something went terribly wrong. RV'ing is supposed to be fun not put your life or your loved ones in peril.

Anything you can do to reduce the hazards and lessen the risks is worthwhile and that includes adequate tow vehicles.

Too many people think safety is just some buzzword or some kind of crutch for risk averse pansies. Once you've seen the destruction it can do to human beings you look at it differently. No pastime is worth your life, do it right! It doesn't have to be ultra expensive either. Sometimes it just takes a moment to think things through. I will disagree with some and say accidents don't just happen,

they are caused and can be prevented.

X2

If your worried about getting in an accident you have the wrong hobby.

It is NOT being WORRIED. :R
It's called being conscientious and having a safe vehicle and/or combo of vehicle and TT. AND more importantly be a safe vehicle around other drivers on the road.

Would you send your kid out in a car with bald tires and say don't worry? Would you send your kid out in a car with bad brakes and say don't worry?

Length of TT and length and wheel base of TV DOES matter on how SAFE that set up will be running down the road.

A TT that is too long towed by a small short wheel based TV is NOT a safe setup.

It's pure physics, the wrong tow vehicle can not handle keeping a too long TT from swinging/jack knifing when confronted with 'everyday' occurrences on the road such as wind, semi's passing by, or a sudden correction if another driver cuts you off, or having to brake suddenly etc. A 'correct' tow vehicle will be able to handle unexpected incidences that can and does happen on the roads we travel.

Have it your way then. You're being "conscientious" about the wrong thing and have flawed logic.

The facts are about 100 people are killed on the roads of the US every day. That's a fact.

The gross majority of those, 99%? (speculation on my part) are not towing a thing. And yet they are dead from an auto accident. That tells me that those auto accidents had nothing to do with the length of their trailer or anything to do with their trailer because what? 95-99%-99.99999% were not even towing anything! They died because of the mere fact that they were driving on a road.

You remind me of an old dear friend that drove over 3,000 miles to pick up a truck he just bought. I ask him why he didn't fly? His response? "Too dangerous, I don't trust those **** airplanes". LOL


As to your question about tires and brakes.
Would you put your family on a 747 aircraft to fly across the country if every 3rd day one crashed and killed everybody aboard? Because whether you like it or not that's what you and I are doing every time we drive go to work or on vacation.

I'll say it again. I don't worry about these things much. For "me", it's an acceptable risk to drive 6 hours to race or drive 5000 miles to go on vacation because the odds of me getting in an accident driving to or from work is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH higher. And that's a fact.

PS: Thanks Ben and others. 🙂

[transamz9]

rockhillmanor wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:

fla-gypsy wrote:
This we know; something went terribly wrong. RV'ing is supposed to be fun not put your life or your loved ones in peril.

Anything you can do to reduce the hazards and lessen the risks is worthwhile and that includes adequate tow vehicles.

Too many people think safety is just some buzzword or some kind of crutch for risk averse pansies. Once you've seen the destruction it can do to human beings you look at it differently. No pastime is worth your life, do it right! It doesn't have to be ultra expensive either. Sometimes it just takes a moment to think things through. I will disagree with some and say accidents don't just happen,

they are caused and can be prevented.

X2

If your worried about getting in an accident you have the wrong hobby.

It is NOT being WORRIED. :R
It's called being conscientious and having a safe vehicle and/or combo of vehicle and TT. AND more importantly be a safe vehicle around other drivers on the road.

Would you send your kid out in a car with bald tires and say don't worry? Would you send your kid out in a car with bad brakes and say don't worry?

Length of TT and length and wheel base of TV DOES matter on how SAFE that set up will be running down the road.

A TT that is too long towed by a small short wheel based TV is NOT a safe setup.

It's pure physics, the wrong tow vehicle can not handle keeping a too long TT from swinging/jack knifing when confronted with 'everyday' occurrences on the road such as wind, semi's passing by, or a sudden correction if another driver cuts you off, or having to brake suddenly etc. A 'correct' tow vehicle will be able to handle unexpected incidences that can and does happen on the roads we travel.

I can pull a tt down the road with a lawn tractor and be safe about it. It's not as much of what you are pulling it with it's how you are using it and how it's set up.

I mean if a set up is not capable of being towed down the highway in traffic at speed and do it safely then it is not safe for that use. It could however be safe to use on back roads at slower speeds. How many semi tractors do you think were designed and built to haul 250,000 pound loads on trailers that weight 100,000 pounds empty and 200' long? It's how they are set up and how they operate them that make them safe.

[rockhillmanor]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:

fla-gypsy wrote:
This we know; something went terribly wrong. RV'ing is supposed to be fun not put your life or your loved ones in peril.

Anything you can do to reduce the hazards and lessen the risks is worthwhile and that includes adequate tow vehicles.

Too many people think safety is just some buzzword or some kind of crutch for risk averse pansies. Once you've seen the destruction it can do to human beings you look at it differently. No pastime is worth your life, do it right! It doesn't have to be ultra expensive either. Sometimes it just takes a moment to think things through. I will disagree with some and say accidents don't just happen,

they are caused and can be prevented.

X2

If your worried about getting in an accident you have the wrong hobby.

It is NOT being WORRIED. :R
It's called being conscientious and having a safe vehicle and/or combo of vehicle and TT. AND more importantly be a safe vehicle around other drivers on the road.

Would you send your kid out in a car with bald tires and say don't worry? Would you send your kid out in a car with bad brakes and say don't worry?

Length of TT and length and wheel base of TV DOES matter on how SAFE that set up will be running down the road.

A TT that is too long towed by a small short wheel based TV is NOT a safe setup.

It's pure physics, the wrong tow vehicle can not handle keeping a too long TT from swinging/jack knifing when confronted with 'everyday' occurrences on the road such as wind, semi's passing by, or a sudden correction if another driver cuts you off, or having to brake suddenly etc. A 'correct' tow vehicle will be able to handle unexpected incidences that can and does happen on the roads we travel.

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

Walaby wrote:

Paul Clancy wrote:
The scariest part for me is being on a 4 lane with merging on ramp traffic and no left lane gap to get over. Most drivers have no idea how to match speed and merge.

How very true. I cannot count the number of times someone comes down the on ramp, ends up next to me and then MATCHES my speed as they nonchalantly cruise along. Seems like everytime that happens, I have traffic streaming by my left side.

People need to learn how to merge or quit driving on the freeway.

Mike

X3 see this almost every day going to work, getting on the e-way and there is usually some dimwit going 35 on the on ramp as traffic is going 65-70 on the e-way. Then yep they come to a complete stop at the bottom of the on-ramp.

My DD had this happen to her and hit the lady in the rear. The Toledo cop sited both of them, my DD for assured clear distance and the lady (in her forties) for impeding traffic.

Don

[Hannibal]

Walaby wrote:

Paul Clancy wrote:
The scariest part for me is being on a 4 lane with merging on ramp traffic and no left lane gap to get over. Most drivers have no idea how to match speed and merge.

How very true. I cannot count the number of times someone comes down the on ramp, ends up next to me and then MATCHES my speed as they nonchalantly cruise along. Seems like everytime that happens, I have traffic streaming by my left side.

People need to learn how to merge or quit driving on the freeway.

Mike

Some folks think the whole world is supposed to accommodate them. I had a guy in a Cadillac shake his fist at me because I didn't adjust my speed to let his highness in. Plenty of room in front of and behind me. I laughed at him.

[Walaby]

Paul Clancy wrote:
The scariest part for me is being on a 4 lane with merging on ramp traffic and no left lane gap to get over. Most drivers have no idea how to match speed and merge.

How very true. I cannot count the number of times someone comes down the on ramp, ends up next to me and then MATCHES my speed as they nonchalantly cruise along. Seems like everytime that happens, I have traffic streaming by my left side.

People need to learn how to merge or quit driving on the freeway.

Mike

[Bedlam]

You know if they backed off the speed, they would have that greater following distance and would not be tailgating?

[Paul_Clancy]

The scariest part for me is being on a 4 lane with merging on ramp traffic and no left lane gap to get over. Most drivers have no idea how to match speed and merge.

[rhagfo]

Bedlam wrote:
I would argue that most accidents can be prevented or reduced by reducing speed. Too many people are pushing the safety envelope and do not have a sufficient buffer to adjust to changing conditions.

Bedlam, not so much the speed, it is that way too many drivers tailgate way too close, I see many following at 1/2 to 3/4 of a car length at 65 to 70 mph, that to me is insane. The speed just increases the intensity of the impact.

This forces them to concentrate on only the car in front of them. I like to leave several car lengths, so I can be looking well down the road, to see what traffic is doing well ahead.

[BenK]

Turtle, condolences for such tough losses. Lost my taste for motor bikes due to
two similar during my high school years

My point is that if towing was the or a contributing cause, then the sizing vs OEM
ratings vs setup has a large component of that cause or not

[Engineer9860]

ktosv wrote:
Having driven this section of road many times for spring break, and not being there to see it, this is exactly what happened...;)

The far left lane was going 85mph while the right lane was going 75 mph. This person towing the trailer was going a resonable 65 mph in the center lane to avoid merging and exiting traffic. Someone going 90 mph decided they needed to pass on the right but there was unbelievably an even slower moving vehicle in the right lane. So to get back left before hitting said slow vehicle they cut off the SUV towing the trailer causing them to take evasive action but in the process lost control and flipped the trailer.

I have made several trips down I-75 to central Florida in March the last couple of years to watch my youngest son play baseball. I have no reason to doubt what the poster I have quoted here has said.

[jerem0621]

Last RV accident I saw was where a F350 pulling a monster fiver rear ended another car at the top of an exit ramp....must have had a time based break controller. :S (sarcasm)

I wish folks would concentrate on the people and not the set ups...they are called accidents for a reason...only a psycho sets out his or her day saying I am going to intentionally wreck someone or be wrecked by someone.

T&P...I am sorry about the loss of your friend and your brother.

Thanks

Jeremiah