Full Synthetic oil in 2016 Dodge diesel

[Jim2007]

Hi All. I just switched from conventional oil to full synthetic oil. The dodge owners manual states that oil changes are needed every 14K miles or after 6 months or if the on board oil indicator states it is time. Which ever of these evens occurs first. My question is does anyone really put on 14k miles before changing the oil? With conventional oil I changed the oil at 3K to 5K miles. This is my first experience with using a full synthetic oil. At lease half of my driving is with the 5th wheel trailer (weight about 9,000lbs ready to camp) attached. Thanks for the comments. Jim2007

[ShinerBock]

spoon059 wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:
How about that! Now try to learn that Diesel Exhaust Fluid has NOTHING to do with regens. It is injected into the exhaust to reduce NOx. The extra fuel is used to burn out the DPF. Oh, and welcome to the condescending club.

Before Cummins introduced DEF into the exhaust system, the way they reduced nitrous oxides was with use of the EGR. The EGR routed a lot of exhaust gas back into the engine to reduce the total nitrous oxides coming out of the tail pipe. That caused the oil to get very dirty, very quickly. As a result of the very dirty conditions, it required shorter oil change intervals.

In 2013 Cummins introduced DEF as a means to reduce nitrous oxides in the exhaust. Using DEF to reduce those nitrous oxides resulted in substantially less involvement from the EGR valve, which meant less exhaust gases going back into the combustion chamber, which meant the oil wasn't getting as dirty nearly as quickly. As a result of cleaner conditions, it allowed longer oil change intervals.

Hopefully I don't get a nomination into the "condescension club", and hopefully you understand the argument that several people are making.

Yes, technically the DEF has absolutely nothing to do with the engine oil, but the technology of DEF has a direct impact on the EGR, which has a direct impact on engine oil.

Spoon, you are 100% correct, but left out one other bit of info. Since the pre-DEF trucks utilized the EGR more, it clogged the DPF a lot sooner since cooling the combustion temps creates more soot. Since the DPF is being clogged a lot sooner, the truck needs to regen a lot more. Since the Cummins engines squirt fuel after combustion to get the DPF hot enough to regen, the oil will get diluted with fuel more often which requires the oil to be changed more frequently.

With addition of DEF, the EGR is not used as much which creates less soot which causes less regens which means less fuel dilution in the oil which equates to the engine oil not needing to be changed as often. The DEF system does not directly effect oil contamination, but it does effect it indirectly due to not needing to use the EGR as much.

[Cummins12V98]

AMZ/OIL 100 percent Synthetic 15-40 changed at 30K with 15K on the oil. Oil is still in great shape. Used FleetGuard filter with Stratapore media.

[spoon059]

Lynnmor wrote:
How about that! Now try to learn that Diesel Exhaust Fluid has NOTHING to do with regens. It is injected into the exhaust to reduce NOx. The extra fuel is used to burn out the DPF. Oh, and welcome to the condescending club.

Before Cummins introduced DEF into the exhaust system, the way they reduced nitrous oxides was with use of the EGR. The EGR routed a lot of exhaust gas back into the engine to reduce the total nitrous oxides coming out of the tail pipe. That caused the oil to get very dirty, very quickly. As a result of the very dirty conditions, it required shorter oil change intervals.

In 2013 Cummins introduced DEF as a means to reduce nitrous oxides in the exhaust. Using DEF to reduce those nitrous oxides resulted in substantially less involvement from the EGR valve, which meant less exhaust gases going back into the combustion chamber, which meant the oil wasn't getting as dirty nearly as quickly. As a result of cleaner conditions, it allowed longer oil change intervals.

Hopefully I don't get a nomination into the "condescension club", and hopefully you understand the argument that several people are making.

Yes, technically the DEF has absolutely nothing to do with the engine oil, but the technology of DEF has a direct impact on the EGR, which has a direct impact on engine oil.

[Learjet]

Lynnmor wrote:

Learjet wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:

Me Again wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:


DEF really has nothing to do with oil. My DEF equipped truck OLM usually calls for an oil change around 7000 miles.

Yours in not a RAM!!!! Non DEF RAM 6.7's had super short oil change calls on the EVIC. Chris

OK, so tell us all what happens when your RAM truck squirts DEF in the exhaust system that has an effect on the oil in the engine. :h

Nice attempt at being snarky when you don't know what you're talking about........

So I ask how the DEF has an effect on motor oil (it doesn't) and, instead of coming up with an intelligent answer, you have nothing to add but a condescending remark. Sad but typical.

Sir, he was correct...The pre-DEF Rams had lots of Regens going on...that causes extra fuel in the cylinders post ignition which causes fuel to wash down the cylinders and mix with the oil. You might want to do some reading before you are quick to dismiss the info.

How about that! Now try to learn that Diesel Exhaust Fluid has NOTHING to do with regens. It is injected into the exhaust to reduce NOx. The extra fuel is used to burn out the DPF. Oh, and welcome to the condescending club.

I was trying to be polite and civil to you, you sir or not...bye bye.

read and understand link

[otrfun]

Me Again wrote:

M.R.E. wrote:
I have a '16 Ram 2500. I changed oil at 6 mo 3000 miles and 1 year at 9500 miles. Asked the service Rep if I have to change every 6 months for warranty. He said no, just follow the oil monitor but change at least once a year.

That is not what your owners manual states!. It says which ever occurs first. 15k, 6 months, or oil minder.

x2.

If you have a major warranty issue with your Cummins and Ram determines OCI's could potentially be a factor, sure hope your service rep is willing to personally stand behind his advice.

Our '16 Ram Cummins Diesel Supplement states several times throughout the supplement: "Under no circumstances should oil change intervals exceed 15,000 miles (24,000 km) or six months or 500 Hours, whichever comes first."

[Me_Again]

Grit dog wrote:
^Let me explain this as I would to my son before he learned that everything isn't 100% literal. He grew out of that a couple years ago.
Yes you're correct, DEF never touches the engine nor is it used in an active regen.
What it does is allow for less regens which in turn lessens fuel dilution by way of not injecting extra fuel to raise egts. (Except systems like GMs I believe that use an additional fuel injector downstream of the engine ) Also the newer technology has allowed for less egr action which keeps oil cleaner as well.
BTW if you weren't being sarcastic you wouldn't have stated the "question" as you did followed by the little scratchy head emoji.

So from my 9 year olds perspective, yes def is not involved in regens. From an informed perspective, def is beneficial in multiple ways to the Diesel engine emissions system.

And from the RAM truck prospective it was a mayor change in the tuning of the engine as you note. I used the term NON DEF engines and that seem to have confused him. Anyone that closely follows the RAM trucks understands this turning point, which occurred later than the GM's and Ford's.

Chris

[Grit_dog]

^Let me explain this as I would to my son before he learned that everything isn't 100% literal. He grew out of that a couple years ago.
Yes you're correct, DEF never touches the engine nor is it used in an active regen.
What it does is allow for less regens which in turn lessens fuel dilution by way of not injecting extra fuel to raise egts. (Except systems like GMs I believe that use an additional fuel injector downstream of the engine ) Also the newer technology has allowed for less egr action which keeps oil cleaner as well.
BTW if you weren't being sarcastic you wouldn't have stated the "question" as you did followed by the little scratchy head emoji.

So from my 9 year olds perspective, yes def is not involved in regens. From an informed perspective, def is beneficial in multiple ways to the Diesel engine emissions system.

[Lynnmor]

Learjet wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:

Me Again wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:


DEF really has nothing to do with oil. My DEF equipped truck OLM usually calls for an oil change around 7000 miles.

Yours in not a RAM!!!! Non DEF RAM 6.7's had super short oil change calls on the EVIC. Chris

OK, so tell us all what happens when your RAM truck squirts DEF in the exhaust system that has an effect on the oil in the engine. :h

Nice attempt at being snarky when you don't know what you're talking about........

So I ask how the DEF has an effect on motor oil (it doesn't) and, instead of coming up with an intelligent answer, you have nothing to add but a condescending remark. Sad but typical.

Sir, he was correct...The pre-DEF Rams had lots of Regens going on...that causes extra fuel in the cylinders post ignition which causes fuel to wash down the cylinders and mix with the oil. You might want to do some reading before you are quick to dismiss the info.

How about that! Now try to learn that Diesel Exhaust Fluid has NOTHING to do with regens. It is injected into the exhaust to reduce NOx. The extra fuel is used to burn out the DPF. Oh, and welcome to the condescending club.

[BenK]

This comes up often here and on my boy racer forums...

Dry starts are one of the main metal on metal wear of ICE's. Why there are pre-lube systems...and why higher film strength oils a must for me (AKA synthetics)...they don't drip off during an over nite period...

New one to me...that someone thinks new oil wears out and ICE...with that thinking...why not sprinkle plain old dirt into your oil fill every so often...

A lot depends on how it is driven, when, where, etc, etc

Another thing...racing oil's are GREAT for racers who change their oil and/or engines way before most normal non-racing folks do...why many racing oils does NOT have the additive package street oils have, that both cleans (detergents) and holds in suspension particles that wear out metal surfaces

Just like gear teeth...ICE's innards are designed to NOT go metal on metal, but ride on a film of oil...in a perfect world. They do go metal on metal all to often and mostly during severe situations...like towing heavy...

I keep my vehicles a long time. Mostly because of hating payments and the extreme cost of today's vehicles. So they must last a long time. If planning on trading in a few years...this discussion is academic...as the potential accelerated wear is passed onto the next owner before the worn parts show up as loss of power, etc

[bighog01]

I always change at 15,000. Daily driver. Not a lot of towing miles vs non towing miles. 82,000 on the clock and she runs like new. Keeping up with ALL of the maintenance on these trucks is the most important thing

[rhagfo]

Grit dog wrote:

Durb wrote:

naturist wrote:
I'm used to 10,000 mile oil changes on full synthetic oil in a 2001 VW Jetta turbo-diesel, and 12,500 mile OCI on a 2005 Jeep Libby turbo-diesel on full synthetic, and 13,000 mile on a BMW. The last of these has an oil change sensor which is indeed sensitive to whether I'm towing. All three require full synthetic oil for the turbo, and I bet the OP's RAM would also need it for the same reasons. There is, in fact evidence that changing such oil early INCREASES wear. So do what the mfg says to do. Do NOT stick with the 3-5,000 intervals just because you have done that in the past.

I'm curious, what evidence is there that clean oil increases wear over dirty oil? I can see 15,000 and 30,000 mile oil change intervals if you are running a bypass filter to filter the dirt out. High flow oil filters with internal bypass are not up to the job. In my opinion, with the new oils breakdown is not the problem but suspended micro particles are wearing down the internals of an engine. I will continue with short change intervals on my older Cummins. I figure that if dirty oil is superior to clean oil then Ram would ship their new trucks with dirty oil.

Omfg I've heard it all now! Clean oil causes more wear? Lol. Change your oil too much, blow up the engine!
Now I know why I read this site everyday.......pure, free entertainment!

If one has ever had their valve cover off, you will notice several pockets that hold oil. This is why the oil goes dark again soon after a change.

[rjstractor]

Durb wrote:
I'm curious, what evidence is there that clean oil increases wear over dirty oil? I can see 15,000 and 30,000 mile oil change intervals if you are running a bypass filter to filter the dirt out. High flow oil filters with internal bypass are not up to the job. In my opinion, with the new oils breakdown is not the problem but suspended micro particles are wearing down the internals of an engine. I will continue with short change intervals on my older Cummins. I figure that if dirty oil is superior to clean oil then Ram would ship their new trucks with dirty oil.

I'm only speculating here, but I suspect this has nothing to do with dirty or clean oil and more to do with the extra wear associated with starting an engine after an oil change.

[Learjet]

Lynnmor wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:

Me Again wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:


DEF really has nothing to do with oil. My DEF equipped truck OLM usually calls for an oil change around 7000 miles.

Yours in not a RAM!!!! Non DEF RAM 6.7's had super short oil change calls on the EVIC. Chris

OK, so tell us all what happens when your RAM truck squirts DEF in the exhaust system that has an effect on the oil in the engine. :h

Nice attempt at being snarky when you don't know what you're talking about........

So I ask how the DEF has an effect on motor oil (it doesn't) and, instead of coming up with an intelligent answer, you have nothing to add but a condescending remark. Sad but typical.

Sir, he was correct...The pre-DEF Rams had lots of Regens going on...that causes extra fuel in the cylinders post ignition which causes fuel to wash down the cylinders and mix with the oil. You might want to do some reading before you are quick to dismiss the info.

[Me_Again]

M.R.E. wrote:
I have a '16 Ram 2500. I changed oil at 6 mo 3000 miles and 1 year at 9500 miles. Asked the service Rep if I have to change every 6 months for warranty. He said no, just follow the oil monitor but change at least once a year.

That is not what your owners manual states!. It says which ever occurs first. 15k, 6 months, or oil minder.

[M_R_E_]

I have a '16 Ram 2500. I changed oil at 6 mo 3000 miles and 1 year at 9500 miles. Asked the service Rep if I have to change every 6 months for warranty. He said no, just follow the oil monitor but change at least once a year.