Going from pop-up to hard side, big mistake?

[raztec]

I've got a Palomino Bronco pop-up TC on a 3500 SRW Dodge Diesel short box. It's only about 1200lbs empty and the truck pulls as if it's not even there. I've got stock suspension and air bags.

I'm getting kinda of tired of popping it up and down during short stops, so am thinking of trading it in for a hard side Northstar without basement. This one weighs about 1800lbs empty. So again I should have no problem with my truck.

However, I've never had a hard shell TC and am not sure if I'll regret this decision or not. It's a $15,000 decision so I'm trying to get as much feedback as possible from others. For those who've had experience with both a pop-up and hard side TCs I'd love to hear what your thoughts are on this swap.

1. Did you notice a big difference in gas mileage, handling?

2. How about off road handling? I'm not talking serious off road, but the occasional dirt road off the beaten path to mountain lakes and sort. Does the hard side TC rock and roll a lot compared to the pop-up?

3. Is the comfort, convenience and warmth you get in a hard side worth the extra cost in fuel or handling?

4. Are all these points moot if I have a 1 ton diesel truck that can carry the extra load with ease?

5. If you were to do it again, which would you choose, hard side or pop-up, and why?

Thanks for any insights.

Cheers,

[beckid]

Here's my 2 Cents: Had a pop-up for 7 years and loved it. Time passes and your back and other parts arent as flexible to be pulling, pushing, and wrestling bunk ends and canvas. Got a hard side TT. Loved it...except for the hitch being a gazillion lbs and the backing-in part. Took 18 months to decide we were ready for a Class A RV. Took it in the shorts but have never been happier with an RV. We go more often, have more time to relax and enjoy, and pick up and go in a matter of minutes when its time to head home. Oh but there will be no off-roading in the RV!

[jimh406]

I don't have and haven't had a popup, but as others have stated, the biggest difference betwen types is height. Popups can be heavier. The hardside you are talking about is somewhat small and light. I see the advantage of getting in and out with the tradeoff being height.

Maybe you could also look into changing or updating the mechanism to raise your roof easier. Other people here may have suggestions/improvements. Come to think of it, I can't remember two many threads that talking about raising roofs on popups, but I remember someone saying that there were only a coupld of different types.

[thundercloud]

We had an Outfitter Apex 8 and sold it to buy a hard side camper (Bigfoot). The first thing I noticed with the Bigfoot was how much better it rode on the truck, it seemed more balanced in terms of its center of gravity. With the Outfitter we had a lot of rocking motion front to back (proposing), which I feel is from having too much of the weight on the tail end like the refrigerator and bathroom. Our Bigfoot has the refrigerator and bathroom located right behind the cab, so more centered in the camper. The next thing I notice was better fuel mileage with the Bigfoot, which shocked me at first but then I got to looking at the two profiles of both set ups on the truck. The Bigfoot was higher profile obviously but has better aero dynamics. The warm factor and quiet factor are really big differences between the two campers as well as better and more storage in the Bigfoot. As far as off-road capabilities of the two the Outfitter could potentially get us into places the Bigfoot can't, but we don't hard core 4 wheel that much.

[MKish]

The Northstar is probably narrower than the Bronco--that won't make much difference unless you're trying to get it through my gate. Or maybe it will. It's just one other factor to push you one way or another.

[jmtandem]

1. Did you notice a big difference in gas mileage, handling?

I have had three hardsides and one pop up. There is a difference in handling and wind resistance and weight. One hardside was 4000 pounds. There are trade- offs. I tend to see pop ups as better for the off road use, hardsides better for going to typical campsites. I often took my pop up to RV parks and that was OK if you are not sensitive to being next to $200,000 motorhomes. It never bothered me so I did not care.




2. How about off road handling? I'm not talking serious off road, but the occasional dirt road off the beaten path to mountain lakes and sort. Does the hard side TC rock and roll a lot compared to the pop-up?

A hardside will work just fine until you get into low branch and side hill issues. I liked the pop up much better for off road usage and camping. But, again it depends on the hardside you are looking for.



3. Is the comfort, convenience and warmth you get in a hard side worth the extra cost in fuel or handling?

Why are you assuming that you will get worse mileage and worse handling with a hardside? It just does not work that way. In strong winds the hardside might be more work in driving but otherwise it is not that big a deal. Not having to set up a camper was huge with us so we went hardside and it is nice to have it all ready to use with just opening the door, no wet sides to store after a rain, etc.


4. Are all these points moot if I have a 1 ton diesel truck that can carry the extra load with ease?

Depends on the hardside. How heavy will it be, are you towing something behind that has a heavy tongue weight, etc. I needed extra suspension and air bags for my last hardside on my Dodge one ton dually! A relatively light camper and you should be good to go with your truck.


5. If you were to do it again, which would you choose, hard side or pop-up, and why?

[COLOR=]Hardside. For the reasons listed above. However, if I spent a lot of time off road it would be a pop up for sure.

[deltabravo]

raztec wrote:
3. Is the comfort, convenience and warmth you get in a hard side worth the extra cost in fuel or handling?

4. Are all these points moot if I have a 1 ton diesel truck that can carry the extra load with ease?

5. If you were to do it again, which would you choose, hard side or pop-up, and why?

Thanks for any insights.

Cheers,

YES to all three.

With regard to fuel mileage, don't worry about it... it's a cost of having fun and enjoying life.
If I was worried about fuel mileage and the added expense of going places in it, I wouldn't own and RV.

[classicdude]

mainetom wrote:
We went from tents to pop-ups (first one used, then new) and loved them. We weren't planning on making a change but one day came across a nice used TT and bought it, private sale, but kept the pop-up, thinking we'd use them both. After ten years of non-use, we sold the pop-up.
What we discovered we like best about TTs over pop-ups: Not having a wet rig (dew or rain) to deal with after use; being able to use the TT on long trips for rest breaks, etc.
We enjoyed the pop-up lifestyle and miss it, but we'll never go back.

I know this had little, if anything, to do with the OP's question. This comment just sparked some major, fond memories of our pop up days. We also both miss the pop up , but we won't go back either. I'll just leave it at 'It's hard to beat a pop up'.

[GpnAZ]

We had a 2000' FWC Hawk for 12 years, first on a Chevy shortbed, second on a Dodge PW shortbed. We could go camping anywhere the truck could 4 wheel into, which was a lot of areas most people wouldn't go to. A couple years ago we started doing more and more civilized camping and less way off the beaten path camping. I got to thinking that not popping up the top every time I wanted to do something in the camper would be a lot more convenient. We ended up buying a new Lance 865 last year and we are really enjoying the advantages the hardside has over the popup. If you want to go places nobody else goes to, keep your popup, if all you are doing is dirt roads and soft 4 wheeling, I think the space, quietness, insulation and convenience of a hardside wins out for us. I have not done enough offroading with our hardside to speak with authority, but I know jefe 4x4 can certainly reply with good experience in that area. Good luck on your decision and no matter which way you go, just have fun and enjoy!

[stuckinthesand]

yes, Yes, Yes, Yes and Hard side. I starter with a pop-up Starcraft TC and went to hard side and tow a Wrangler for the off road stuff. Guess it depends on how much you plan on using it, if I just went camping once a year to the lake the pop-up would be fine but going cross country in the hard side is a much better trip. Just my openion, your results may vary.

[_DJ_1]

I have had several hard sides and my last 2 have been pop ups.

I like the pop up as it gives me more needed clearance in the timber but most of all is the huge screened windows for ventilation.

I doubt your mpg's will change much but you will notice a difference in handling. I only say this because the new TC is 600 lbs heavier and will hold more stuff!!! That 3500 may even handle better with a little more weight!!!

A hard side W/O basement is a good choice if you want to go off pavement. Lower overall height and COG. And if you think they are not capable off road check out El Jefe and CTraveler's Trip Reports!!!

Pros and cons IMHO:

Pop up pros: Lower clearance and COG plus great ventilation. Oftentimes more head room especially in the overhead bunk.

Cons: Outside noise, less storage and setting up for lunch, breaks, etc. Colder? I went camping/snowmobiling for 3 days at 25 below 0. I stayed warm enough but the condensation coming off the inside of the canvas was like Niagra Falls!!! Worst part was it soaked down my bedding. Would definitely need an Arctic Kit to do that again!!!

As far as weight and mpg's go I feel that is a toss up depending on your combo.

[mainetom]

We went from tents to pop-ups (first one used, then new) and loved them. We weren't planning on making a change but one day came across a nice used TT and bought it, private sale, but kept the pop-up, thinking we'd use them both. After ten years of non-use, we sold the pop-up.
What we discovered we like best about TTs over pop-ups: Not having a wet rig (dew or rain) to deal with after use; being able to use the TT on long trips for rest breaks, etc.
We enjoyed the pop-up lifestyle and miss it, but we'll never go back.

[SugarHillCTD]

We originally had a hardside.

Went to a pop-up for all the reasons that make them popular whether those reasons ended up being true or not. (especially fuel mileage which did not change for us)

After a brief period of not having any RV we wanted to get a TC again.

Didn't have to make any difficult decision- we didn't even consider a pop-up.

Major hardside advantages: (our opinions)
Interior storage space
No set up (although that never bothered me)
Quiet inside!
Warmer inside in very cold weather

[sf3291]

Not a comparison to a hard side, but...

One of the reasons I went with outfitter is that I could still get in the back to make a sandwich and even sit at the dinette with the top down. You can even use the toilet with the top down...though your only option is to sit on the can.

I've also stealth slept with the top down. I leave the board that converts the dinette into a bed underneath one of the cushions. I don't really call that camping because you are much more limited in space and can't use the cooktop. Really all I have done is sleep in the back at a rest stop or in a residential area near a highway as I was passing through.

[joerg68]

I had a hardside (2002 Lance 915) and switched to a Popup (2011 Outfitter Apex 8). So here is my personal take on your question. You may find that it is not of much help, as most of it comes down to the specific truck/tc combo and your personal preference:

Q1. Did you notice a big difference in gas mileage, handling?
A: Yes, the popup is actually somewhat less fuel-efficient. I attribute that to the cabover design of the Outfitter. Personally, I think there are bigger factors than the simple difference popup/hardside.

Q2. How about off road handling? I'm not talking serious off road, but the occasional dirt road off the beaten path to mountain lakes and sort. Does the hard side TC rock and roll a lot compared to the pop-up?
A: The difference was very noticeable on my 2500 truck. When we went from the Lance to the Outfitter I could tell on the first few feet that the ride was much better; less sway. But there was almost a 1000lbs difference, and with the Lance I was close to the GVWR. And the Lance was almost a foot wider, so we can now fit into much tighter spaces.

Q3. Is the comfort, convenience and warmth you get in a hard side worth the extra cost in fuel or handling?
A: the single most important feature for me would be the ability to stealth-camp in a hardside. You just pull up to some place and there you go. With the popup, you have to raise the roof first, and then everybody can see you are camped. Other than that, it comes down to personal preference. The heat in our popup is just as good, we have a full bathroom, but the airy/roomy feel in the popup is much nicer - at least in good weather.

Q4. Are all these points moot if I have a 1 ton diesel truck that can carry the extra load with ease?
A: I have a 2500 gasser and it carried the heavier camper with ease, but the handling was worse. But this is best answered by people who have actually tried it.

Q5. If you were to do it again, which would you choose, hard side or pop-up, and why?
A: I would go for the popup again. But... we are here in Europe. Many roads are quite narrow. Parking space is more limited. Old villages are difficult to drive in with wide and high vehicles. What I can say, though, is that the popup matches the load abilities of our truck much better, and it is much more at ease driving with the lighter TC. But you have more reserves on your truck I would think. The main reason, however, is that we feel much more at home in the popup. With different campers, I might feel different.

[garryk6]

I have a hard side, my good friend has pop-up. The hard side allows you to haul more but that can get dangerous with the weight police. I take my hard side off the beaten path a lot here in Alaska. If you don't have a rear sway bar, I recommend the Helwig. I have one, along with stable-loads and Rancho RS 9000's. Our ride is relatively smooth even with our recent 110 mile gravel rOad trip last week across the Denali Highway. Lots of potholes, washboard and some off camber with hills. We do not have a basement, and I think that helps keep the COG lower. We love being able to jump in and out at any time of the day for making lunch, not having to set up in the rain, not having to worry about wet/moldy canvas.

That is my 2cents...

Garry in AK