GVWR

[MT_Camper]

I Have a 2017 F250 GVWR 10,000 lbs, rear GAWR 6340, front GAWR 4400, E rated tires at 3640 lbs. I have added 8600 lb Timbrens, lower stable loads and a Hellwig bigwig sway bar. I weighed my truck full of gas, two passengers, camper full of water and everything else we thought we needed to bring. The Cat Scale weighed in at:
Front axle 4060
Rear axle 6340
Gross weight 10400
The scale shows I am 400 Lbs over my GVWR listed on my truck.
The truck handles the camper very well.
My question is will this present any problems and what can I do to help?
Any helpful suggestions will be appreciated.
Thanks!


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[CWSWine]

wnjj wrote:


Not even "ratings" are clear cut.

The statement below that's in the manual that was supplied with your truck and the towing guides aren't clear-cut.

Trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight should be 10% (15% for 5th-wheel towing) of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo must not cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Federal Safety Compliance Certification Label.”

[wnjj]

CWSWine wrote:
...14,000 pounds that were set by engineers at the manufacturer sets. I guess those little ladies now have engineering degrees to work there. LOL

There's where you make an assumption. How do you know engineers decided those numbers, particularly when you consider how many rating numbers are conveniently just under tax or other legal categories? You can also purchase different GVWR stickers on identical hardware.

Also consider that GAWR is listed with specific OEM tire sizes. What do the ratings mean when those are changed? No applicable? The same?

Not even "ratings" are clear cut.

[Marty1951]

Ourtoys


Lance975F350

[JIMNLIN]

op wrote:
My question is will this present any problems and what can I do to help?
Any helpful suggestions will be appreciated.
Thanks!

OP has a Lance 855 truck camper...some how his weight question got posted in the tow vehicle forum. Maybe the mod/adm can move him over there where some most likely have the same truck/truck camper combo.

Great combo match up. All steer and drive axles under ratings. If his F250 has the heavy service pack or camper package it has the same suspension as the F350srw...and of course most know the rest of the truck is the same as.

[Marty1951]

In the real world...there are people who follow the rules to a tee and then there are those who don't. Go figure. I believe everyone's idea of what rig set up is comfortable for them to drive is their own personal comfort level. I drove semi for over 30 years maybe my comfort level for driving big rigs are at a higher level. Companies had us over the road with all types of loads (tons) and incapacities. The laws allow them to operate in this manner until something happens. Most of the accidents with semi's were operator error, to tired. I have a CDL and will make sure the registration is correct because if stopped and weighed I will have been held to a higher standard due to having a CDL. I wont be able to say, "I didn't know" From what I am seeing on the forums almost everyone is above the ratings put on Fords F350, they ignore it, wont talk about it, or tell me they dont know what their rig weighs. I ordered a basic F350 with less than $1000 of optional equipment. 3.73 locking axle 110/400 watt outlet, remote start and a camper package. I am concerned with weight, reasoning for going from 18 to 19.5 tires and rims. The total weight of my camper and truck is 12,200 including 660lbs of tonque. My tires Michelin XRV total capacity are 16320lbs for 4 tires. The only reason for a dually would be stability in winds to keep some butt checks from tightening up however semi drivers know when its windy they slow down or pull off the road. Lances are know for being heavy. Mine says 3261 before manufacturer options. Actually weighed 4300 dry. My wife is a paralegal. She knows legaleeze and the legal system well. Some people do what they are comfortable doing and some do what they are told.
Happy Camping!

[CWSWine]

This is how I come to my conclusion to not exceeding GVWR.

Here is what it says in the owner manual and tow guides.

“Note:
Trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight should be 10% (15% for 5th-wheel towing) of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo must not cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Federal Safety Compliance Certification Label.”

—OR—
Just take the word or a few very active posters that the factory information is incorrect and you can ignore manufactures GVWR but you should honor the manufactures ratings for the Axles (GAWR) which both are listed on the Federal Safety Compliance Certification.
Link
https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content/dam/brand_ford/en_us/brand/resources/general/pdf/guides/18RV&TT_Ford_SuperDtyPU_Nov27.pdf

Next I contacted GMC Commercial Sales and ask about exceeding GVWR and loaded to GAWR and they sent me this link and this is the GMC official position.
http://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/how-to/understanding-gross-vehicle-weight-rating

I believe that it is very slim chance that you going to get ticketed for being over your trucks GVWR of even the GAWR/GCWR/tire ratings. My research turned to the legal side started at the link below.

“Towing in excess of the vehicle manufactures’s weight limits could not only prove dangerous but could be considered negligent In the event of an accident with an overweight personal vehicle, you could be held responsible for higher awards in a lawsuit for damages to other people, vehicles or property.”
Link: http://www.personalinjuryclaimsblawg.com/personal-vehicle-towing-liability-for-rvers/

Still not total convinced I made an appointment with my trusted family lawyer and he explained how manufactures specs on all kinds of products are used in civil court to gain higher awards and there doesn’t have to be a law prohibiting exceeding manufacture specs to play a role in court. The towing guids and the Trucks User manual will be gospile in civil court. The other question you might want to ask is what happens if a lawsuit exceeds my limits on my insurance policy and how to protect yourself. That question can’t be answered unless someone knows what assets would be exposed and what’s your income level. That was an eye opening meeting.

Also check with the local State Patrol, DOT scales operator, and a CDL Training center they agreed you should never exceed you GVWR and load to GAWR.

This is where my research led me and now I’m going to called the weight police and attacked. Your research may lead you in a different conclusion. Everything in life has risk but you have decided if the rewards are worth the risk. In my case towing above GVWR was not worth the risk.



What seemed strange to me that GVWR, GAWR GCWR, tire ratings are all manufacture ratings why would ignore just one but GAWR is not to be exceeded.

I love it when people say that the little lady behind the counter at the county offices can increase the payload of 1/2 ton truck to over 14,000 pounds that were set by engineers at the manufacturer sets. I guess those little ladies now have engineering degrees to work there. LOL

[Marty1951]

I have the camper package with beefed up springs front and rear...Firestones pillows are on it...changed front and rear sway bars to Hellwigs, equalizer wd hitch, rims rated for 5000 lbs ea, tires rated for 4080 lbs ea. Michelin XRV. scaled 12,200 on truck tires inc. 660lbs of tongue weight. Adj. equalizer wd to throw some of the tongue weight on front axle. Registered for 15,000 lbs
Technically the RAWR won't change. However the capability of the truck changes.

[MFL]

Marty1951 wrote:
10,900 gvwr 2018 F350 super duty with camper package
that came with a camper certification certificate that said use no more than 3200 lbs when using a slide camper?
6780 rear axle
4850 front axle
Lance 975 weighs 4300 wet after options were installed although rear door sticker says 3261lbs
My question is when you change your rims and tires to 19.5 what is your rear axle weight rating changed to...cant be 6780 still can it?

Technically the RAWR won't change. However the capability of the truck changes. Your rear suspension may be the weak point, after changing the tires/wheels, and may need upgrading, or bags added.

Jerry

[Marty1951]

10,900 gvwr 2018 F350 super duty with camper package
that came with a camper certification certificate that said use no more than 3200 lbs when using a slide camper?
6780 rear axle
4850 front axle
Lance 975 weighs 4300 wet after options were installed although rear door sticker says 3261lbs
My question is when you change your rims and tires to 19.5 what is your rear axle weight rating changed to...cant be 6780 still can it?

[blt2ski]

My 89 GM 1 ton was tagged at 16K also. No issues carying the load once I put a set of helpers on it. The POS TH400 trans went out every 30K like clockwork, with 5K tranny oil changes. That was due to the tall first gear in it. Couldnt pull a 15% grade at 12K lbs. Yet the 81 GM C2500 with a 292 at 12K never stalled out into the mid 20% grade at 12K+ total! That ~6.8-1 first gear in the muncie trans helped!

My 92 IHC with a gross vehicle warranty rating of 18200 is tagged at 26K. Got pulled over at 27K.....no overweight ticket! I am good to just under 30K lbs per the WSP weight police. I was 10000 lbs per axel under the limit.

Marty

[john_bet]

mowermech wrote:

john&bet wrote:

Walaby wrote:
Your rear GAWR is 6340 and your actual rear axle weight is 6340?

You're at your max on Rear Axle weight.

I agree with that GVWR for 3/4 ton is artificially set at 10K, but axle ratings are not.

Are you sure your rear GAWR is 6340? Aren't those ratings normally at the hundreths (ie 6300 or 6400)?

There's more the the RAWR than the tires. Axles themselves, springs etc...

Mike

In your expert opinion what should the gvw be for a 3/4 ton truck if 10,000 is low?

In my opinion, based on a little over 60 years of owning trucks (starting with a 1936 Ford half ton, 6000 GVW), the GVW on a truck should be whatever the owner wants to pay for. As I have stated previously, the registered GVW for my old '94 one ton was 14K. I knew it was practically impossible for me to ever exceed that weight!
Come to think of it, I'm not sure what the GVW is on my 3/4 ton. Maybe I should check it...

I remember my Dad's first 1 tom was a Dodge D 300 with a 225CID slant 6. He had it tagged for 16k. We carried wheat to the elevator at that weight. Yip the font was a little light, but it got the job done and didn't break into. All his 1 tons carried 16K plates thru his last '83. None of them ever broke into or down. His last two carried 11' utility boxes on them.

[Grit_dog]

^19.5s would be the safest choice of course, but I'm around 8k on the rear axle on various OE rims and good tires with 3700-4000lb ratings.
I'm not advocating it to others and I'm sure it's to the chagrin of the weight police, but I'm comfortable doing it. Maybe I did or seen too many ridiculous things with pickups over the years, that being at or a couple hundred lbs over a rated capacity that has a considerable factor of safety on it doesn't bother me.

[Me_Again]

Grit dog wrote:
^ In my expert opinion, lol, around 12klb is reasonable. 4k on the front, 8k on the rear.
That’s actual load carrying abilities.

What are you going to run for tires to support a 8K RGAWR?

Neighbor down the street in the park just bought a BIG 42' Tow Hauler. His girlfriend has a 2004 2500 4x4 RAM that he is going to be using as a tow vehicle for it. We talked tires and pin weight, and the 2500 is now sporting 19.5" rims and tires, and air bigs which he had already planned on

[mowermech]

john&bet wrote:

Walaby wrote:
Your rear GAWR is 6340 and your actual rear axle weight is 6340?

You're at your max on Rear Axle weight.

I agree with that GVWR for 3/4 ton is artificially set at 10K, but axle ratings are not.

Are you sure your rear GAWR is 6340? Aren't those ratings normally at the hundreths (ie 6300 or 6400)?

There's more the the RAWR than the tires. Axles themselves, springs etc...

Mike

In your expert opinion what should the gvw be for a 3/4 ton truck if 10,000 is low?

In my opinion, based on a little over 60 years of owning trucks (starting with a 1936 Ford half ton, 6000 GVW), the GVW on a truck should be whatever the owner wants to pay for. As I have stated previously, the registered GVW for my old '94 one ton was 14K. I knew it was practically impossible for me to ever exceed that weight!
Come to think of it, I'm not sure what the GVW is on my 3/4 ton. Maybe I should check it...

[Grit_dog]

^ In my expert opinion, lol, around 12klb is reasonable. 4k on the front, 8k on the rear.
That’s actual load carrying abilities.