Help a Newbie, question about gas vs. diesel

[cycler]

Towing a fw, approx 10,000 lbs, would a gas engine F250 be practical, or would it be better to go diesel? Remember I said Newbie...thanks, cycler.

This is an added question to my original post:
Worth the extra bucks for 4 whl drive?

[blt2ski]

Farmerkev,
A normal person never pays off per say the cost if ones vehicle! So buy what you want, use what you want, call it a day. If you want a diesel, get one! Both fuels, both sets of motors have plus and minuses. Beyond that, it's not worth arguing over.
Marty

[Farmerkev]

blt2ski wrote:

Farmerkev wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
Realistically, one needs to drive 20-30k miles a year to truly pay for a diesel these days in a reasonable time frame, IE 3-5 yrs.

I'll disagree with the conventional wisdom a bit here.
You don't pay the whole diesel premium every time you trade, it's mostly a 1 time hit.
If you stay diesel on every truck you get after the first the payback numbers change quite a bit.

Based on my numbers, and most other larger commercial users, one needs to drive 150K miles minimum to pay off ANY diesel vs gas. Used to be 60-80K miles. Most are wanting an ROI in the 3-5 year relm, so my 20-30K min mile useage is about on target. Where I work, we just switched off to gas rigs vs diesel rigs. We're doing 5 year leas turn arounds, with 30-40K miles a year useage. My paying for one personally is out the door. as I am not driving like I used to for business purposes, no depreciation etc. Takes a long time to payoff an $8K difference, even with an increase in trade. If you want one get one, reality, you will never get it paid for per say if you do not drive the wheels off of it! Even a gas one this is true.

marty

No augment there but commercial is quite a bit different than the civilian pickup market I'm referring too.

[Grit_dog]

LanceRKeys wrote:
Belairbrian what speed do you tow at? My only gets that high on my best days.

Either 52mph, or he's exaggerating his mileage or a combination of both.

[patperry2766]

Having switched from a gas 2WD F-150 to a diesel 4x4 CTD, there are pro's & con's either way. Mine is a 2018 model and there were some good rebates and dealer incentives that got me probably pretty close to what could have gotten a new 1/2T for, or maybe a little under that price. As far as diesel and 4x4, seems like that's pretty much they only way you can get them nowdays. Didn't really need that much of a truck but I figured I was gonna be getting a new camper in the next few years and I knew the `18's were the last of the CP3 before Ram started putting the 4.2's on the `19 models.

Anyway, I'm getting about 16.8 MPG on my daily drive at 2.49/gal(mostly highway speeds 70ish) where I was getting close to 18 @ 2.09 on the gas 1/2 T I had been driving. Not sure where the MPGs fall on a 3/4T or 1T 6.4 Hemi 2WD which would have easily worked for my needs. Obviously, there is a night & day difference in towing, which is to be expected. Probably when I get a new trailer then that's when the CTD will really stand out and I really hope that I can get more than 125k miles out of the CTD as opposed to the 5.0L Ford that needed a new engine.

As far as diesel prices on the highway, they're usually .25-30 higher than in town because they know that a trucker isn't gonna go off the beaten path to find fuel any cheaper...kinda a captive audience so to say, where as the gas prices are usually very competitive with each other.

Ford has a new 7.3L gas engine coming out and the numbers look pretty decent. If it's gonna be a daily driver with as occasional trip, the gas will work fine, even in the mountains. If your gonna be towing a lot, then the diesel might be they way to go.

[Blazing_Zippers]

We've owned two gassers and pulled over 10,000 lb trailers with each. No real issues, even though we traveled to Alaska and the entire Western states. Yes, a diesel does pull great, but I'm not sorry we own a gas engine.
As far as longevity, I'm not sure a new truck will last as long as the diesel does-computer issues, parts falling apart, recalls, etc. Oh, don't forget the fuel additive that has to be put in.
I respect the diesel owner. My choice is a gas engine.
See ya out there.

[blt2ski]

Farmerkev wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
Realistically, one needs to drive 20-30k miles a year to truly pay for a diesel these days in a reasonable time frame, IE 3-5 yrs.

I'll disagree with the conventional wisdom a bit here.
You don't pay the whole diesel premium every time you trade, it's mostly a 1 time hit.
If you stay diesel on every truck you get after the first the payback numbers change quite a bit.

Based on my numbers, and most other larger commercial users, one needs to drive 150K miles minimum to pay off ANY diesel vs gas. Used to be 60-80K miles. Most are wanting an ROI in the 3-5 year relm, so my 20-30K min mile useage is about on target. Where I work, we just switched off to gas rigs vs diesel rigs. We're doing 5 year leas turn arounds, with 30-40K miles a year useage. My paying for one personally is out the door. as I am not driving like I used to for business purposes, no depreciation etc. Takes a long time to payoff an $8K difference, even with an increase in trade. If you want one get one, reality, you will never get it paid for per say if you do not drive the wheels off of it! Even a gas one this is true.

marty

[smithrjd]

I have had both, diesel is much better towing. I will never go back. Jayco 321RLTS max at 14.5K Pulls mountains with no issue, jake brake going down. Much smoother ride all the way around. Dealer wants me to trade on a new one, 2014 Sliverado 2500HD 4X4, offered me $40K on a trade. Yep they keep their value.

[vjstangelo]

agesilaus wrote:
OK in general I'd say that east of the Mississippi a gas engine is fine. Cheaper too. But once you hit the mountain states you will be sorry if you do not have a diesel. Diesels shine pulling loads up and down (engine brake) grades.

And as mentioned above do not buy a 3/4 ton, the one ton is slightly more money but it will pull much better. No different in the way they drive either.

I would recommend a newer 5 speed or 6+ speed transmission(s) if you go gas as the tow haul mode, while not a true Jake Brake, does very good using engine compression to manage steep down grades. FWIW we have a 22,000# GVWR Winnebago Class A on the F53 chassis with the 5R110 Torqshift 5 speed. A great combo.

[Farmerkev]

blt2ski wrote:
Realistically, one needs to drive 20-30k miles a year to truly pay for a diesel these days in a reasonable time frame, IE 3-5 yrs.

I'll disagree with the conventional wisdom a bit here.
You don't pay the whole diesel premium every time you trade, it's mostly a 1 time hit.
If you stay diesel on every truck you get after the first the payback numbers change quite a bit.

[blt2ski]

Realistically, one needs to drive 20-30k miles a year to truly pay for a diesel these days in a reasonable time frame, IE 3-5 yrs. If you can go longer to get an ROI, great.
A turbo/super charger is great on ANY motor, be it gas or diesel at elevations higher than 5000 ft. As non forced induction motors lose 2-3% HP per 1000' if elevation. At 5000' you are down 15% HP! Yes one will notice this.....Good or bad is up to you.

Realty, ANY of the 300+HP motors, geared properly, enough payload for your needs will motivate upwards of 20,000 lbs fine!

Marty

[stickdog]

As a full-time rver diesel is for me the way to go. If I was a weekender gas would be my choice. Last year we traveled 15,000+ miles this year will be closer to 5,000.
How many miles for the weekender in a year. $9,000 can buy a lot of gas.
So my choice would be a 350-3500 gasser.

[packpe89]

I agree with early post by ranger smith, One huge advantage of diesel is at the truck stop. So much easier getting in and out of filling up at a truck stop, rather than fighting the cramp quarters at gas pumps.

[cycler]

Thank you for your responses, I find them very informative. I gotta say that the comments about mountainous western states got me thinking, however, my wife and I just returned home to Georgia, where we retired to, from State College, Pa., and I think riding some of the mountain highways in Pa., Tn., and NC, reinforce the comments about having a diesel pickup. If we go down this road, I will probably spend the extra bucks for a diesel, as we do want to explore the western part of the country. Much appreciated, cycler.

[2012Coleman]

My 2017 6.4 Hemi Ram had 3020 lbs payload and easily pulled 12K and had plenty of excess capacity, but as stated, gas engines make their power at higher RPM's. And like Hammerboy, I also have a low tolerance for that. A diesel in a 250/2500 is going to have less payload, so the advice to go with the 350/3500 SRW diesel is the choice I made, and don't regret it - although I do use it as a daily driver and it's just fine in that role. Gets better fuel mileage than the Hemi - that's for sure.

[lmpres]

I pulled a 10K 5th wheel with a 2012 F250 gasser for 2 years. Upgraded to a 2017 F350 diesel and will never look back! The F250 had air bags in it, but it was outright scarey whenever we went over a bridge. Both units woulds start to porpoise. Up hills, it would wind in lower gears. Once pulling with the 350, it all went away!