Improve my suspension

[Gnsolman]

I am looking to improve my suspension when pulling my 15000lb fifth wheel with a 2008 2500HD Chevy Duramax. Any suggestions.

[Cummins12V98]

"In '14 or so the 3500 DRW Ram has the upgraded to a 11.8" AAM axle."

And it's a BEAUTY!

[Thunderbolt]

All Gm 3500 trucks come with the 11.5" axle. Even the ones equipped with the 6.0 liter. They have different wheels, different springs and the 11.5" axle instead of the 10.5" on the 2500HD.

JIMNLIN wrote:

So you're telling me that this 08' 2500 has 9-10K RAWR??

What rhagfo said was the 2500 GM rear axle is rated at 9k-10k lbs (not chevy trucks RAWR number).

However all diesel powered 2500/3500 SRW DRW Dodge/Rams and chevy/GMC trucks have the same 11.5" AAM axle which is rated in the 10800-11000 lb range so forget about any rear axle issues with these trucks.

The only difference in the 3500 SRW and the OP 2500 truck is another leaf in the main spring pack and possibly a upper aux over load spring pack. Many 2500 trucks come with the higher rated OEM 18" wheel/tires which is std equipped on the 3500 SRW truck.

In '14 or so the 3500 DRW Ram has the upgraded to a 11.8" AAM axle.

[Dayle1]

NC Hauler wrote:

Dayle1 wrote:
WOW, how quickly everyone can be so narrow minded with so little info. Yes, the OP did state 'suspension', but we should be stressing the need for more info and looking at the big picture. What are the symptoms? What about trailer suspension improvements? What about air ride hitches? This is not automatically an overloaded truck problem.

...you want us to hear more, but call more than several us, "narrow minded"? That's a good way to get someone on your side:R

I don't have the problem, so not looking to get someone on my side. I'm just trying to make the point that focusing on just one item is short changing the vast knowledge of this group. Poor towing characteristics can have lots of causes and just switching to a one ton may not be the silver bullet for the OP. But carry on

[rhagfo]

JIMNLIN, Thanks!!
My point exactly!!

[JIMNLIN]

So you're telling me that this 08' 2500 has 9-10K RAWR??

What rhagfo said was the 2500 GM rear axle is rated at 9k-10k lbs (not chevy trucks RAWR number).

However all diesel powered 2500/3500 SRW DRW Dodge/Rams and chevy/GMC trucks have the same 11.5" AAM axle which is rated in the 10800-11000 lb range so forget about any rear axle issues with these trucks.

The only difference in the 3500 SRW and the OP 2500 truck is another leaf in the main spring pack and possibly a upper aux over load spring pack. Many 2500 trucks come with the higher rated OEM 18" wheel/tires which is std equipped on the 3500 SRW truck.

In '14 or so the 3500 DRW Ram has the upgraded to a 11.8" AAM axle.

[NC_Hauler]

rhagfo wrote:

Gnsolman wrote:
Thanks Jimln My Durmax is rated for 22000 lbs Thats for a combined weight of the truck and the trailer Last I put it on the scale it came in @ 22500lbs and I had fluids in the tanks We also emptied some items So long story short we are well within the GVW of the vehicle Weights I believe the fifth wheel pin weight for the trailer is at about 1750lbs What started my whole search was we just moved are fifth wheel on a 1100 mile trip We came home without it We felt great when we got out of the vehicle running without the fifth wheel. With the fifth wheel stiff and sore for the first few steps getting out for fuel We have traveled from Florida Keys to Alaska so lets just say I've hauled the fifth wheel over 50000 mile on various trips
I'm liking the airbag suggestion Thanks again Jimln

So I will be that last one to tell you you are over some ratings, something about the Pot and Kettle.

That said you need to understand the numbers you are posting.
The 22,000# number is the GVCWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating), this is the total weight of the TV and 5er. I think you understand that.

Next number is the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) this is what the TV is rated to carry on its wheels, this is partly a artificial number for most 2500/250 as typically they share the same running gear as a 3500/350 SRW. This appears to be 9,200# for your TV, and you are at least 800# over that number.

Next is GAWR, separate for front and rear. The rear rating is based on springs and tires the axles itself is good for about 9,000# to 10,000#.

Your rear GAWR is likely 6,000# to 6,200# you will be close to exceeding this also.

The single most important rating is the Tire and wheel rating!! Never exceed these!

The tire rating is on the sidewall of the tire, with the air pressure needed to have that rating.

Now given this information GO TO THE SCALES and get the rig weighed ready to camp.

Weight it twice first with 5er attached and get weights for TV Front and Rear axles, and the weight on the 5er's axles.

Then drop the 5er and weight the TV again Front and rear axles.

Then post with the TV GAWR's both front and rear. Then last but not least the Max tire capacity from the tires side wall and required pressure.

Then we could make sure you are not putting yourself, or others in danger by overloading tires/wheels.

Might also beable make it more enjoyable to tow, we might also tell you you need a bigger Truck. :B

This is not condoning what you are doing just helping you to be as safe as possible.

So you're telling me that this 08' 2500 has 9-10K RAWR?? I've got the one ton dually in my sig., and my RAWR is only 9750#, with a GVWR of 14K,,,I should have purchased an 08' Chevy 2500... It's got as good as specs, if not better on its RAWR, then my 13' 3500 dually.... Heck, I had an 07.5' Chevy dually D/A that didn't rate that high with RAWR...

[NC_Hauler]

Dayle1 wrote:
WOW, how quickly everyone can be so narrow minded with so little info. Yes, the OP did state 'suspension', but we should be stressing the need for more info and looking at the big picture. What are the symptoms? What about trailer suspension improvements? What about air ride hitches? This is not automatically an overloaded truck problem.

...you want us to hear more, but call more than several us, "narrow minded"? That's a good way to get someone on your side:R

[Dayle1]

WOW, how quickly everyone can be so narrow minded with so little info. Yes, the OP did state 'suspension', but we should be stressing the need for more info and looking at the big picture. What are the symptoms? What about trailer suspension improvements? What about air ride hitches? This is not automatically an overloaded truck problem.

[rhagfo]

Gnsolman wrote:
Thanks Jimln My Durmax is rated for 22000 lbs Thats for a combined weight of the truck and the trailer Last I put it on the scale it came in @ 22500lbs and I had fluids in the tanks We also emptied some items So long story short we are well within the GVW of the vehicle Weights I believe the fifth wheel pin weight for the trailer is at about 1750lbs What started my whole search was we just moved are fifth wheel on a 1100 mile trip We came home without it We felt great when we got out of the vehicle running without the fifth wheel. With the fifth wheel stiff and sore for the first few steps getting out for fuel We have traveled from Florida Keys to Alaska so lets just say I've hauled the fifth wheel over 50000 mile on various trips
I'm liking the airbag suggestion Thanks again Jimln

So I will be that last one to tell you you are over some ratings, something about the Pot and Kettle.

That said you need to understand the numbers you are posting.
The 22,000# number is the GVCWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating), this is the total weight of the TV and 5er. I think you understand that.

Next number is the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) this is what the TV is rated to carry on its wheels, this is partly a artificial number for most 2500/250 as typically they share the same running gear as a 3500/350 SRW. This appears to be 9,200# for your TV, and you are at least 800# over that number.

Next is GAWR, separate for front and rear. The rear rating is based on springs and tires the axles itself is good for about 9,000# to 10,000#.

Your rear GAWR is likely 6,000# to 6,200# you will be close to exceeding this also.

The single most important rating is the Tire and wheel rating!! Never exceed these!

The tire rating is on the sidewall of the tire, with the air pressure needed to have that rating.

Now given this information GO TO THE SCALES and get the rig weighed ready to camp.

Weight it twice first with 5er attached and get weights for TV Front and Rear axles, and the weight on the 5er's axles.

Then drop the 5er and weight the TV again Front and rear axles.

Then post with the TV GAWR's both front and rear. Then last but not least the Max tire capacity from the tires side wall and required pressure.

Then we could make sure you are not putting yourself, or others in danger by overloading tires/wheels.

Might also beable make it more enjoyable to tow, we might also tell you you need a bigger Truck. :B

This is not condoning what you are doing just helping you to be as safe as possible.

[NC_Hauler]

schlep1967 wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

schlep1967 wrote:
Is 15K the max weight on the trailer or the empty weight?
My 5th wheel weighs in at 10,560 dry with a max of 14,000+. I have firestone airbags added to my Dodge 2500 and run about 22 lbs in them. If you are starting at 15K you need more truck.

X2
Pretty much the nail on the head! HD2500 is a 3500 with a tax break. That being the 10,000# GVWR limit. The differences between 2500/250's and SRW 3500/350's is the Class 2 GVWR of 10,000# and possibly softer springs.
It is the owners choice to exceed the GVWR, no suggestion to do so.
Yes, will be over GVWR, the numbers to watch then are the TIRE max capacity rating.

2008 Chevy/GM 2500 has a GVWR of 9200#, not 10,000...As stated, the spring pack on the 3500 SRW truck is different than one on 2500.

He has exceeded his GCWR by 500#,

If 5er is at 15K, odds are, his pin weight is closer to 2800-3000#.

I prefer not to go over RAWR...putting TIRES on that will cover payload, BUT NOT the axle weight rating, doesn't make since and just made the axle the "weak link"...

OP stated he had weights, but was "guessing" on the pin weight...That weigh is very important to the whole scheme of towing a 5er...and dry or empty weights are a joke...no one goes camping with an empty or dry weight camper.

I agree unless used as I did. Starting with a trailer with a dry weight of 10,560 you are going to end up a whole lot lighter than starting with one with a dry weight of 15,000. And that difference in this case would without a doubt require more truck than a 2500 series.

Agree

[schlep1967]

NC Hauler wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

schlep1967 wrote:
Is 15K the max weight on the trailer or the empty weight?
My 5th wheel weighs in at 10,560 dry with a max of 14,000+. I have firestone airbags added to my Dodge 2500 and run about 22 lbs in them. If you are starting at 15K you need more truck.

X2
Pretty much the nail on the head! HD2500 is a 3500 with a tax break. That being the 10,000# GVWR limit. The differences between 2500/250's and SRW 3500/350's is the Class 2 GVWR of 10,000# and possibly softer springs.
It is the owners choice to exceed the GVWR, no suggestion to do so.
Yes, will be over GVWR, the numbers to watch then are the TIRE max capacity rating.

2008 Chevy/GM 2500 has a GVWR of 9200#, not 10,000...As stated, the spring pack on the 3500 SRW truck is different than one on 2500.

He has exceeded his GCWR by 500#,

If 5er is at 15K, odds are, his pin weight is closer to 2800-3000#.

I prefer not to go over RAWR...putting TIRES on that will cover payload, BUT NOT the axle weight rating, doesn't make since and just made the axle the "weak link"...

OP stated he had weights, but was "guessing" on the pin weight...That weigh is very important to the whole scheme of towing a 5er...and dry or empty weights are a joke...no one goes camping with an empty or dry weight camper.

I agree unless used as I did. Starting with a trailer with a dry weight of 10,560 you are going to end up a whole lot lighter than starting with one with a dry weight of 15,000. And that difference in this case would without a doubt require more truck than a 2500 series.

[NC_Hauler]

rhagfo wrote:

schlep1967 wrote:
Is 15K the max weight on the trailer or the empty weight?
My 5th wheel weighs in at 10,560 dry with a max of 14,000+. I have firestone airbags added to my Dodge 2500 and run about 22 lbs in them. If you are starting at 15K you need more truck.

X2
Pretty much the nail on the head! HD2500 is a 3500 with a tax break. That being the 10,000# GVWR limit. The differences between 2500/250's and SRW 3500/350's is the Class 2 GVWR of 10,000# and possibly softer springs.
It is the owners choice to exceed the GVWR, no suggestion to do so.
Yes, will be over GVWR, the numbers to watch then are the TIRE max capacity rating.

2008 Chevy/GM 2500 has a GVWR of 9200#, not 10,000...As stated, the spring pack on the 3500 SRW truck is different than one on 2500.

He has exceeded his GCWR by 500#,

If 5er is at 15K, odds are, his pin weight is closer to 2800-3000#.

I prefer not to go over RAWR...putting TIRES on that will cover payload, BUT NOT the axle weight rating, doesn't make since and just made the axle the "weak link"...

OP stated he had weights, but was "guessing" on the pin weight...That weigh is very important to the whole scheme of towing a 5er...and dry or empty weights are a joke...no one goes camping with an empty or dry weight camper.

[mkirsch]

The brochure didn't say it was going to be COMFORTABLE. All it said it that the truck could tow that much.

[ktmrfs]

rhagfo wrote:

schlep1967 wrote:
Is 15K the max weight on the trailer or the empty weight?
My 5th wheel weighs in at 10,560 dry with a max of 14,000+. I have firestone airbags added to my Dodge 2500 and run about 22 lbs in them. If you are starting at 15K you need more truck.

X2
Pretty much the nail on the head! HD2500 is a 3500 with a tax break. That being the 10,000# GVWR limit. The differences between 2500/250's and SRW 3500/350's is the Class 2 GVWR of 10,000# and possibly softer springs.
It is the owners choice to exceed the GVWR, no suggestion to do so.
Yes, will be over GVWR, the numbers to watch then are the TIRE max capacity rating.

3500 has a bigger spring pack, and stiffer overloads, along with tires with a higher weight capacity.

I agree, 2500 is overloaded by the mfg ratings. I have a 2500cc short box and cargo capacity is around 2400lbs. 3500SRW all 1500 to that number, along with much stiffer spring pack on the rear