No power getting to my Angler 8C, 2001

[sapperb]

Hope everyone is having a good year so far. The problem is that when it is plugged in to "my house" or the generator, it throws the GFI, in my house or generator. It does not trip any of the breakers inside or blow any of the fuses on the inside. I bought this used. My buddy who I bought it from who had it for about 10 years, was in a very bad car accident, needless to say he can't help me with it. I pulled the oven out to get a look at where the main power cord come in. I just bought all new breakers to put in. I don't know how old the ones that are in there are, but I thought I would start there. The thing that has me baffled is, it doesn't throw any of the breakers or fuses in the camper. It trips whatever I am plugged into, the house or generator. I appreciate any help on this. Gonna try to post pictures.

[mkirsch]

sapperb wrote:
Thank you for the reply. I was wondering what the converter/charger looks like. Was it included in one of my pictures? Thank you again,
Bruce

Follow the wires.

The wire from the converter breaker leads to the converter, which is the bottom section of your electrical panel that contains the transformer, and has the red white and blue wires leading out and up to the row of automotive fuses on the top right.

[StirCrazy]

by the looks of that old converter, you should be thinking of upgrading it anyways and if it is causing issues its a good time to do it. THIS one is a direct swap for just the converter section. If you want to do what I did you could get a whole new power centre and get the modern filtered DC and such but they are not always the same size as the old Magnetek and you pretty much have to rewire everything. you could look at the PD4645, or PD4655 depending if you want a bit higher output for charging or not.

Steve

[sapperb]

jimh406 wrote:

sapperb wrote:

jimh406 wrote:
There isn't any attachment tab. You can use this website to post photos. http://photoposting.is-great.net/?i=1

I have tried to use this to post pictures, by my computer Malware blocks it with high suspicion.

No idea what you are using that says it is Malware, but I don't think it is Malware. Too many people use it. We would have heard that it was bad by now. YMMV.

Hey Brother,
Thanks. I turned off the blocker. That picture link works awesome.

[sapperb]

sapperb wrote:

opnspaces wrote:

sapperb wrote:
Ok good evening, everyone. I was able to do some more research on it today. Ok I plugged it into a non-GFI outlet I flipped up all the breakers in the camper. Everything worked for about 30 seconds, then I heard a click, and everything went off. It never threw a breaker in the camper; it threw the breaker in my main fuse panel in my house (where it was plugged into). So, I flipped down all the breakers in the camper and hit the breaker back on in my house. So now I went and turned on the breakers in the camper one by one and it clicked again when I flipped up the breaker to the converter. So would this mean my converter is bad and causing this? I have to accept the fact that this converter may be as old as the camper, 22 years old. The converter should be located in the fuse panel of the camper? Again thank you everyone who is helping me.
Bruce

Most likely the converter, or it could be the charger. Many times they are in the same box but separate. It could also be something else on the same circuit. Unplug all electricity, take a photo of the fuse locations and pull all the fuses. Then see if you can open the front of the converter/charger. If so undo the wires from the breaker to the charger only. Now put the fuses back in and carefully plug in shore power, flip on the offending breaker and see what happens. If no tripping you have a bad charger. If it trips there is a short in the breaker panel or some other device like the microwave or whatever is also on that same circuit.

Here are some pictures

Thank you for the reply. I was wondering what the converter/charger looks like. Was it included in one of my pictures? Thank you again,
Bruce

[sapperb]

here are pictures of my breaker box, fuse box and under the breaker box.

[sapperb]

opnspaces wrote:

sapperb wrote:
Ok good evening, everyone. I was able to do some more research on it today. Ok I plugged it into a non-GFI outlet I flipped up all the breakers in the camper. Everything worked for about 30 seconds, then I heard a click, and everything went off. It never threw a breaker in the camper; it threw the breaker in my main fuse panel in my house (where it was plugged into). So, I flipped down all the breakers in the camper and hit the breaker back on in my house. So now I went and turned on the breakers in the camper one by one and it clicked again when I flipped up the breaker to the converter. So would this mean my converter is bad and causing this? I have to accept the fact that this converter may be as old as the camper, 22 years old. The converter should be located in the fuse panel of the camper? Again thank you everyone who is helping me.
Bruce

Most likely the converter, or it could be the charger. Many times they are in the same box but separate. It could also be something else on the same circuit. Unplug all electricity, take a photo of the fuse locations and pull all the fuses. Then see if you can open the front of the converter/charger. If so undo the wires from the breaker to the charger only. Now put the fuses back in and carefully plug in shore power, flip on the offending breaker and see what happens. If no tripping you have a bad charger. If it trips there is a short in the breaker panel or some other device like the microwave or whatever is also on that same circuit.

Here are some pictures

[opnspaces]

sapperb wrote:
Ok good evening, everyone. I was able to do some more research on it today. Ok I plugged it into a non-GFI outlet I flipped up all the breakers in the camper. Everything worked for about 30 seconds, then I heard a click, and everything went off. It never threw a breaker in the camper; it threw the breaker in my main fuse panel in my house (where it was plugged into). So, I flipped down all the breakers in the camper and hit the breaker back on in my house. So now I went and turned on the breakers in the camper one by one and it clicked again when I flipped up the breaker to the converter. So would this mean my converter is bad and causing this? I have to accept the fact that this converter may be as old as the camper, 22 years old. The converter should be located in the fuse panel of the camper? Again thank you everyone who is helping me.
Bruce

Most likely the converter, or it could be the charger. Many times they are in the same box but separate. It could also be something else on the same circuit. Unplug all electricity, take a photo of the fuse locations and pull all the fuses. Then see if you can open the front of the converter/charger. If so undo the wires from the breaker to the charger only. Now put the fuses back in and carefully plug in shore power, flip on the offending breaker and see what happens. If no tripping you have a bad charger. If it trips there is a short in the breaker panel or some other device like the microwave or whatever is also on that same circuit.

[jimh406]

sapperb wrote:

jimh406 wrote:
There isn't any attachment tab. You can use this website to post photos. http://photoposting.is-great.net/?i=1

I have tried to use this to post pictures, by my computer Malware blocks it with high suspicion.

No idea what you are using that says it is Malware, but I don't think it is Malware. Too many people use it. We would have heard that it was bad by now. YMMV.

[sapperb]

jimh406 wrote:
There isn't any attachment tab. You can use this website to post photos. http://photoposting.is-great.net/?i=1

I have tried to use this to post pictures, by my computer Malware blocks it with high suspicion.

[sapperb]

Ok good evening, everyone. I was able to do some more research on it today. Ok I plugged it into a non-GFI outlet I flipped up all the breakers in the camper. Everything worked for about 30 seconds, then I heard a click, and everything went off. It never threw a breaker in the camper; it threw the breaker in my main fuse panel in my house (where it was plugged into). So, I flipped down all the breakers in the camper and hit the breaker back on in my house. So now I went and turned on the breakers in the camper one by one and it clicked again when I flipped up the breaker to the converter. So would this mean my converter is bad and causing this? I have to accept the fact that this converter may be as old as the camper, 22 years old. The converter should be located in the fuse panel of the camper? Again thank you everyone who is helping me.
Bruce

[sapperb]

user113 wrote:
It worked without issue earlier, that's a good sign. You have not reported yet if it still works OK with non-GFI supply breakers but it currently trips the GFI protection supply breaker. Seeing if a breaker inside the camper trips is not really going to advance the investigation much. I will walk you through the diagnostic steps I would do if it were me, without buying any new parts that may or may not be needed. (You may need to buy or borrow a DVM or multimeter.) I'm guessing, based on what you have said so far, that the breakers in the TC are NOT GFI protected.

The thing to do first is to verify that the GFI still trips, and that it only trips when the "main/AC" circuit is closed, and not when the other two circuits are closed. If that is the case, then good. We can use that in our diagnostic process.

Now, a little discussion about how the system works. Typical circuit breakers like those in your house, your generator and your TC only disconnect the "line" conductors (typically black and/or red) when they are switched off. All of the ground wires (typically green or bare) continue to be connected together regardless of which of the three circuits they serve and regardless of the position of the breakers. Similarly, the neutrals (typically white) are also all connected together regardless of their circuit. What we don't want, however, is for any of the neutral conductors in your TC to be connected to any of the ground conductors in your TC. That is what the other posters are referring to as a "bonding" problem. However, because you say that there were no issues earlier running the TC off of a GFI breaker, I feel pretty confident that you don't have an "intentional" bonding issue in the breaker box. However, a short between a random neutral conductor and ground could have developed since the last time it was working properly. This would be a great place to start. So, to test that, disconnect all power sources from the TC and turn off your inverter. Using a DVM or multimeter set to the highest Ohms range or a conductivity setting, go into the breaker box and look for conductivity between the incoming neutral conductor and the ground conductor. There should be no conductivity between these two systems. If there is any conductivity between the neutral and the ground, you will need to track down where they are connected and fix that. Note that it could be an internal fault in something that is plugged into one of the TC's outlets or hardwired in; or it could be that a random neutral wire in the TC's wiring has come loose and is now touching something grounded or vice versa. On the other hand, if there is absolutely no conductivity between the neutral and ground, you'll have to look for something else.

If there is no evidence of neutrals being connected to grounds, the next thing I would look for is a short circuit where a hot wire is shorted to ground, since you have not reported back on what happens when you are not using a GFI protected source. In a system without GFI protection, a hot wire (aka, line) shorted to either neutral or ground will hopefully draw enough current through a system to trip the overcurrent protection provided by the circuit breaker after a relatively short time, typically on the order of a few seconds. The same thing would happen in a system with a GFI protector if the short is between line and neutral (i.e., also tripping the overcurrent protection system). However, if the short is between line and ground in a system with a GFI protector, the ground fault protection system will almost always trip first because they are designed to trip within milliseconds. You can test for this type of short with the DVM or multimeter as discussed above; test for conductivity between each of the line conductors on the main/AC circuit and ground. There should be absolutely no connectivity between either line conductor and ground; even a tiny amount of conductivity is supposed to trip a properly functioning GFI breaker. As with the neutral to ground short discussed above, such a fault could be an internal fault in something hardwired or plugged into the TC; or it could be a problem in the TC's internal wiring itself.

Chances are really good that if you follow the above diagnostics steps you will solve the problem. Good luck.

Sir,
thank you so much for this. Please everyone do not feel that i am blowing you off! I am taking everyone very serious and thank you for contributing to my issue. I work very long hours during Monday thru Friday. By the time I get home it is dark and I am out of energy. I alwasy work my "to do" list on the weekends. As you see i am in Barstow and heavily into off road racing. I dont race but i have a dezert truck. I am a pit boss for my buddy who races the 2000 Limited truck class. I will be gone this whole weekend, a local race in barstow. Next weekend is a major race at Primm, Nevada. The Mint 400. So i will attack this the weekend of 18 Mar 23. Again, I thank everyone who is trying to help. I will utilize all the suggestions. But first i will try plugging it into a non-GFI outlet.Thanks everyone.

[user113]

It worked without issue earlier, that's a good sign. You have not reported yet if it still works OK with non-GFI supply breakers but it currently trips the GFI protection supply breaker. Seeing if a breaker inside the camper trips is not really going to advance the investigation much. I will walk you through the diagnostic steps I would do if it were me, without buying any new parts that may or may not be needed. (You may need to buy or borrow a DVM or multimeter.) I'm guessing, based on what you have said so far, that the breakers in the TC are NOT GFI protected.

The thing to do first is to verify that the GFI still trips, and that it only trips when the "main/AC" circuit is closed, and not when the other two circuits are closed. If that is the case, then good. We can use that in our diagnostic process.

Now, a little discussion about how the system works. Typical circuit breakers like those in your house, your generator and your TC only disconnect the "line" conductors (typically black and/or red) when they are switched off. All of the ground wires (typically green or bare) continue to be connected together regardless of which of the three circuits they serve and regardless of the position of the breakers. Similarly, the neutrals (typically white) are also all connected together regardless of their circuit. What we don't want, however, is for any of the neutral conductors in your TC to be connected to any of the ground conductors in your TC. That is what the other posters are referring to as a "bonding" problem. However, because you say that there were no issues earlier running the TC off of a GFI breaker, I feel pretty confident that you don't have an "intentional" bonding issue in the breaker box. However, a short between a random neutral conductor and ground could have developed since the last time it was working properly. This would be a great place to start. So, to test that, disconnect all power sources from the TC and turn off your inverter. Using a DVM or multimeter set to the highest Ohms range or a conductivity setting, go into the breaker box and look for conductivity between the incoming neutral conductor and the ground conductor. There should be no conductivity between these two systems. If there is any conductivity between the neutral and the ground, you will need to track down where they are connected and fix that. Note that it could be an internal fault in something that is plugged into one of the TC's outlets or hardwired in; or it could be that a random neutral wire in the TC's wiring has come loose and is now touching something grounded or vice versa. On the other hand, if there is absolutely no conductivity between the neutral and ground, you'll have to look for something else.

If there is no evidence of neutrals being connected to grounds, the next thing I would look for is a short circuit where a hot wire is shorted to ground, since you have not reported back on what happens when you are not using a GFI protected source. In a system without GFI protection, a hot wire (aka, line) shorted to either neutral or ground will hopefully draw enough current through a system to trip the overcurrent protection provided by the circuit breaker after a relatively short time, typically on the order of a few seconds. The same thing would happen in a system with a GFI protector if the short is between line and neutral (i.e., also tripping the overcurrent protection system). However, if the short is between line and ground in a system with a GFI protector, the ground fault protection system will almost always trip first because they are designed to trip within milliseconds. You can test for this type of short with the DVM or multimeter as discussed above; test for conductivity between each of the line conductors on the main/AC circuit and ground. There should be absolutely no connectivity between either line conductor and ground; even a tiny amount of conductivity is supposed to trip a properly functioning GFI breaker. As with the neutral to ground short discussed above, such a fault could be an internal fault in something hardwired or plugged into the TC; or it could be a problem in the TC's internal wiring itself.

Chances are really good that if you follow the above diagnostics steps you will solve the problem. Good luck.

[sapperb]

BigSwick wrote:
It might also be a bad GFI outlet or breaker. try a non GFI to see what happens before you tear into it.

Or try the generator to see what happens.

Well the GFI it plugs into, into the house are new. It also trips the GFI on the generator. I will try a non--GFI outlet and see if something, a breaker trips inside the camper. Thank you.

[mkirsch]

BigSwick wrote:
It might also be a bad GFI outlet or breaker. try a non GFI to see what happens before you tear into it.

Or try the generator to see what happens.

Says it happens with shore power or the generator.

[BigSwick]

It might also be a bad GFI outlet or breaker. try a non GFI to see what happens before you tear into it.

Or try the generator to see what happens.