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Origin of power stroke engine

batavia02
Explorer
Explorer
Heard a comment at work, today, that the powerstroke diesel, is a gas engine reworked as a diesel. Have not heard or read this before so I thought to ask here .
38 REPLIES 38

blt2ski
Moderator
Moderator
I looked at a Frod back in 91-92 when I bought my navistar, the Frod came with a B5.9! Along with LONGEST wheel base for bedlength I wanted, LONGEST turning radius, even the same WB was LONGER than most/ALL other makes I looked at. Hood was horrible to look out over, 30' from front bumper to where the driver could see the road, vs 8 for Freightliner, and 10 or so for the navistar I bought. Least amount of window sq inches, felt like a dungeon........What is the saying, only bought it for the engine, body was an afterthought! Thats how it would have been with the frod.

But that was 20 something years ago too. New Frods are better, but not much better in the MDT relm of things.

Marty
92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
2014 Chevy 1500 Dual cab 4x4
92 Red-e-haul 12K equipment trailer

Sport45
Explorer II
Explorer II
I think it's great that people know so much about what others drive and like.

Just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside about the camaraderie on this forum. ๐Ÿ™‚
โ€™19 F350 SRW CCLB PSD Fx4
'00 F250, CC SWB 4x2, V-10 3.73LS. (sold)
'83 F100 SWB 4x2, 302 AOD 3.55. (parked)
'05 GMC Envoy 4x2 4.2 3.73L.
'12 Edge 2.0 Ecoboost
'15 Cherokee Trailhawk

FishOnOne
Nomad
Nomad
Cummins12V98 wrote:
blt2ski wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
"Origin of power stroke engine"

MEXICO

Friend one. Navigate supplied ones were here in states. At least NA supplies vs Asian!


I should have said 6.7 PS

And comment was mostly for Fish's benefit!


The cummins has been tossed in favor of the Power Stroke for the new F650 and F750 series trucks. Production on these new trucks are now in the US (unlike your taco eeerrr con todo RAM).

Link

This comment was mostly for cummins benefit so he's knows the Power Stroke has replaced the cummins in the F650/F750 trucks.
'12 Ford Super Duty FX4 ELD CC 6.7 PSD 400HP 800ft/lbs "270k Miles"
'16 Sprinter 319MKS "Wide Body"

RCMAN46
Explorer
Explorer
Turtle n Peeps wrote:
OP, the Powerstoke first came out in 1994. No gasoline redesign here. It was a great design for the time, and state of the art with juice injection and a pure clean sheet diesel design from the get go. Even to this day they are a great engine. Down on power for todayโ€™s standards, but still a great engine.



As far as any other diesel engine being a gas redesign. That will depend on semantics.
I own 5 of the Olds 350 diesels right now, and I say yes, they are a redesign gasoline engine. Why do I say that? Because most of the gasoline parts bolt right on the diesel. Same bolt spacing, same amount of head bolts, same water pump, same oil pan, same oil pump, same exhaust manifolds, same valve covers, basically the same heads minus the spark plug holes.
The blocks are even the same with some metal added here and there to put a stronger larger forged steel crank in place. They also put in a bit more metal up front so they can bolt the IP to the block to run off of the cam.
As far as how they came about? I read a story about an engineer that was in on that deal. It went like this:
It was 1976 and the Beetles were out and Donna Summer and the Bee Geeโ€™s were in. Gas was at a very high price and the Japanese were cleaning our clocks with 260Zโ€™s and Celicaโ€™s. Oh sure, we had Vegaโ€™s and Pintoโ€™s. :R
GM had a bunch of tuna boats that used gas like a sailor drinks beer. They knew Americans loved their BIG cars but could not deal with $1.25 per gallon fuel prices. Then it hit one enterprising engineering person. What about a diesel engine? Great mileage and next to no smog to deal with!!!! Brilliant idea!!!

One problem though. They needed and engine like right NOW, but they did not have one or the time to design it from scratch. The engineer thought that they could use an existing design and be in production in less than 6 months. The Olds was a great start because it was a great strong engine to start with. So they took the same block design and changed a few things with it like casting a bit more metal here or there and put an injection pump on it and there you have it, a 350 diesel!!! Pretty smart really!

The little diesel came through with the mileage (my 6000 lb Caddie gets 30 MPG on the highway!!) Remember, back then diesel was ยฝ the price of gasoline. So you could ride in luxury at 60 MPG gas prices!!!!!! What a great deal!!!

Then the problems started. With only 10 head bolts to hold the head on they were good to go with an 8.5 to 1 gasoline engine. But with a 21 to 1 diesel, there was nothing but problems holding the head gaskets in place. Then there was the cold start problems. With 40 weight oil in the crank case and at 30 below zero these engines did not start too well. The people back then did not know any better so when their car did not start they did what they always didโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆuse a can of โ€œmothers helper.โ€ Well the ether collapsed the ring package and that lost even more compression and then you had to use ether at 70 degrees! That is where the idea of โ€œmy diesel is addicted to etherโ€ came from.

All in all, these engines are junk. The only reason I like them is for the mileage they get and the fuel they can burn. That, and I know how to band-aid them up so they will last and run forever.

That is how the 5.7 liter diesel came into existence! Now you know the rest of the story! :B


You claim to own 5 oldsmobile 350 diesels.

Have you ever had one torn down?

If you had you would have found the heads have 13 head bolts. Where did your claim of 10 come from?

The heads were not gas heads as they have a pre combustion chamber and two holes in the pre combustion chamber for the injector and glow plug. This required a completely new head.

The main problem that Oldsmobile had was the head bolts. Had they corrected this problem and used high strength studs early on the engine may have had a better future.

But you will find Ford did try the 10 bolt head with their 6 l diesel with head gasket problems.

RCMAN46
Explorer
Explorer
trail-explorer wrote:
RCMAN46 wrote:
tvman44 wrote:
GM is the only one I know of that ever converted a gas engine to diesel and all I ever heard about them was bad.


You need to get your facts straight.

Here is a good article explaining the problems Oldsmobile had with their 350 Diesel. It was not a converted gas to diesel.

Oldsmobile 350 Diesel


that page was useless.


Sorry about the bad link. The word c r a p p y used in the link and for some reason this forum does not allow the use of the word.

http://www.sub5zero.com/great-moments-c r a p p y-engine-history-oldsmobile-350-diesel-w-video/

Copy and paste the above link and remove the spaces in the illegal word.

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Explorer III
blt2ski wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
"Origin of power stroke engine"

MEXICO

Friend one. Navigate supplied ones were here in states. At least NA supplies vs Asian!


I should have said 6.7 PS

And comment was mostly for Fish's benefit!
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

blt2ski
Moderator
Moderator
Cummins12V98 wrote:
"Origin of power stroke engine"

MEXICO

Friend one. Navigate supplied ones were here in states. At least NA supplies vs Asian!
92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
2014 Chevy 1500 Dual cab 4x4
92 Red-e-haul 12K equipment trailer

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Explorer III
"Origin of power stroke engine"

MEXICO
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

spoon059
Explorer II
Explorer II
I still want to see that 100 mpg carb I've been hearing so much about...
2015 Ram CTD
2015 Jayco 29QBS

Turtle_n_Peeps
Explorer
Explorer
OP, the Powerstoke first came out in 1994. No gasoline redesign here. It was a great design for the time, and state of the art with juice injection and a pure clean sheet diesel design from the get go. Even to this day they are a great engine. Down on power for todayโ€™s standards, but still a great engine.



As far as any other diesel engine being a gas redesign. That will depend on semantics.
I own 5 of the Olds 350 diesels right now, and I say yes, they are a redesign gasoline engine. Why do I say that? Because most of the gasoline parts bolt right on the diesel. Same bolt spacing, same amount of head bolts, same water pump, same oil pan, same oil pump, same exhaust manifolds, same valve covers, basically the same heads minus the spark plug holes.
The blocks are even the same with some metal added here and there to put a stronger larger forged steel crank in place. They also put in a bit more metal up front so they can bolt the IP to the block to run off of the cam.
As far as how they came about? I read a story about an engineer that was in on that deal. It went like this:
It was 1976 and the Beetles were out and Donna Summer and the Bee Geeโ€™s were in. Gas was at a very high price and the Japanese were cleaning our clocks with 260Zโ€™s and Celicaโ€™s. Oh sure, we had Vegaโ€™s and Pintoโ€™s. :R
GM had a bunch of tuna boats that used gas like a sailor drinks beer. They knew Americans loved their BIG cars but could not deal with $1.25 per gallon fuel prices. Then it hit one enterprising engineering person. What about a diesel engine? Great mileage and next to no smog to deal with!!!! Brilliant idea!!!

One problem though. They needed and engine like right NOW, but they did not have one or the time to design it from scratch. The engineer thought that they could use an existing design and be in production in less than 6 months. The Olds was a great start because it was a great strong engine to start with. So they took the same block design and changed a few things with it like casting a bit more metal here or there and put an injection pump on it and there you have it, a 350 diesel!!! Pretty smart really!

The little diesel came through with the mileage (my 6000 lb Caddie gets 30 MPG on the highway!!) Remember, back then diesel was ยฝ the price of gasoline. So you could ride in luxury at 60 MPG gas prices!!!!!! What a great deal!!!

Then the problems started. With only 10 head bolts to hold the head on they were good to go with an 8.5 to 1 gasoline engine. But with a 21 to 1 diesel, there was nothing but problems holding the head gaskets in place. Then there was the cold start problems. With 40 weight oil in the crank case and at 30 below zero these engines did not start too well. The people back then did not know any better so when their car did not start they did what they always didโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆuse a can of โ€œmothers helper.โ€ Well the ether collapsed the ring package and that lost even more compression and then you had to use ether at 70 degrees! That is where the idea of โ€œmy diesel is addicted to etherโ€ came from.

All in all, these engines are junk. The only reason I like them is for the mileage they get and the fuel they can burn. That, and I know how to band-aid them up so they will last and run forever.

That is how the 5.7 liter diesel came into existence! Now you know the rest of the story! :B
~ Too many freaks & not enough circuses ~


"Life is not tried ~ it is merely survived ~ if you're standing
outside the fire"

"The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly."- Abraham Lincoln

blt2ski
Moderator
Moderator
The tm 6.2/6.5 motor was a ground up diesel from Detroit. The 6.2 was spend and designed as high mpg 305 gas motor. Ie similar hp/ torque specs. The 6.5 350 hp spec, 454 torque wise. Good motors for what they were spend as, many like those with the 350 diesel, and to a degree the Ford idi6.9/7.3, and first generation or two of the b5.9, went .me Tarzan, I have diesel motor. But none of these were that chest thumping powerful.

Th only thing the same about the idi7.3 and PSD 7.3 is displaced,event. Similar to the new cm 4.3 v6 and pre kids version, displacement only.

Marty
92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
2014 Chevy 1500 Dual cab 4x4
92 Red-e-haul 12K equipment trailer

ACZL
Explorer
Explorer
IF OP is referring to the Ford Powerstroke, I believe that moniker came about in '93 or '94. That's when Ford added a turbo to the 7.3 and called it "Powerstroke". Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
2017 F350 DRW XLT, CC, 4x4, 6.7
2018 Big Country 3560 SS
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ktmrfs
Explorer II
Explorer II
tvman44 wrote:
GM is the only one I know of that ever converted a gas engine to diesel and all I ever heard about them was bad.


GM and VW did what I'd call "hurry up designs" on diesels based on some of the gas engine displacements and dimensions, and probably some common parts. Not sure I'd call them "conversions" as much as a "design and manufacturing levereaged development" I suspect that the designers, may have been excellent gas engine designers, they probably had little or no experience with diesel engine design and the end result was noticeable design flaws leading to short life.

IIRC peugot also introduced a diesel in this time frame and it was also plagued with problems, probably for the same reasons as GM and VW.

Remember, at this time, mercedes was one of the few mfg with any long term design experience in auto (car not truck) diesels, having sold them since about WWII. GM's detroit diesel division had lots of truck diesel engine experience. I guess that it didn't spill over into the car design division. GM actually had two diesels, the 350 V-8 and a 4.2 L 90 degree block V-6 in some cars.
2011 Keystone Outback 295RE
2004 14' bikehauler with full living quarters
2015.5 Denali 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison
2004.5 Silverado 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison passed on to our Son!

trail-explorer
Explorer
Explorer
RCMAN46 wrote:
tvman44 wrote:
GM is the only one I know of that ever converted a gas engine to diesel and all I ever heard about them was bad.


You need to get your facts straight.

Here is a good article explaining the problems Oldsmobile had with their 350 Diesel. It was not a converted gas to diesel.

Oldsmobile 350 Diesel


that page was useless.
Bob

BenK
Explorer
Explorer
Maybe folks will believe this article...I learned a bit about this topic from
one of my fav magazines...


Truck Trend Mag: Ford's Power Stroke Diesel History - Power Stroke Spotters' Guide
-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...