time for a diesel?

[noonenosthis1]

Hi all,

I've been thinking about switching from our 5er to a motorhome. I really really like our 5er (Forest River Flagstaff 2020 529RLKS uvw 9531). But really we are more, travel to a campground and hang out there. So now I am thinking of a new tow vehicle . I am wondering if it is time to consider a diesel. We don't camp more than once a month. So we are not going a lot. But we do live in California. If you want to go anywhere in California, you are going up over a hill or mountain. Right now we have a 2015 F350 6.2 srw crew cab 4x4. It gets the job done in the valley/flat but start up an incline! It will get us where we are going but it will take a while. Is there anything bigger in gas than our 350?

[rjstractor]

noonenosthis1 wrote:
Well, I've been looking at those 7.3's. Holy ****! They are some nice looking trucks tho. I wonder if it would be possible to put that engine in my truck. My Pop put a 327 into his 1955 Willys Wagon but I do not remember what transmission he had.

Anything is possible if you throw enough money and parts at it. It definitely won't be plug and play. Not even close to worth it for the incremental power increase.

[Lantley]

Crespro wrote:
Hi,

I had a 400ISL on my prior RV, so understand and appreciate diesel engines. We have a 7.3 with 10 speed and 4.30 and it is fine for our 15K fifth wheel. About 10K miles, mostly in California. The tradeoff is 3,500 to 4,000 rpm on hills (perhaps 2% or 3% of towing) versus better operation and ride when not towing (about 45% of miles for us.) I understand why some like diesel engines, but for 15K or less, this is a solid option.

Best,

Charles

Finally a gasser post with realistic numbers.
Gassers tend to rev in the 3500-4000 RPM range diesels generally do not exceed 2500 or so. Ultimately that is the sound, performance, comfort, relaxation difference. It's a different experience at lower RPM

[Grit_dog]

noonenosthis1 wrote:
Well, I've been looking at those 7.3's. Holy ****! They are some nice looking trucks tho. I wonder if it would be possible to put that engine in my truck. My Pop put a 327 into his 1955 Willys Wagon but I do not remember what transmission he had.

Say wut?

[Crespro]

Hi,

I had a 400ISL on my prior RV, so understand and appreciate diesel engines. We have a 7.3 with 10 speed and 4.30 and it is fine for our 15K fifth wheel. About 10K miles, mostly in California. The tradeoff is 3,500 to 4,000 rpm on hills (perhaps 2% or 3% of towing) versus better operation and ride when not towing (about 45% of miles for us.) I understand why some like diesel engines, but for 15K or less, this is a solid option.

Best,

Charles

[blt2ski]

I've found gassers in in the 4000+ relm to be just a noisy and obnoxious as a deezal in the 2500-3000+ rpm range. Depends upon the how far back you go 70's vs current models.
Elevation hurts non forced induction motors be them gaz or deezal! Put a low boost hp gain super charger on the 6.2, that would wake it up at elevation.
more than one way to skin the cat per say. just takes $$, and thehiw do you want to fix the issue.

marty

[noonenosthis1]

Well, I've been looking at those 7.3's. Holy ****! They are some nice looking trucks tho. I wonder if it would be possible to put that engine in my truck. My Pop put a 327 into his 1955 Willys Wagon but I do not remember what transmission he had.

[noonenosthis1]

MFL wrote:
My Ford 6.2 gas does not need to scream, to pull my FW up a 7-10 percent grade. I've never needed more than 4K rpm, even double towing, up a 7% 3.5 mile climb, which includes lots of curves, and speeds of 35-55 mph. At 3-4K rpm, it is very smooth and quiet IMO anyway.

Maybe I'm more used to real screaming rpm, from years of riding crotch rockets? My current Yamaha FZ1 redlines at 11,500 rpm, and while it does have an exciting scream, it is very smooth running. First gear at redline about 90 mph. It has 5 more gears to go! Due to factory exhaust valve tuning, it will handle 40 mph in 6th gear nicely. Top speed 170+

The Ford 7.3 makes good HP and TQ, at lower rpm than the 6.2, and many other gas engines as well.

Jerry

3.5 mile hill? If you plan to go anywhere in my state, California, you will need to go over more than a 3.5 hill. Even if you want to get out of California, you're going to go over a mountain. I see so many folks crusin along on the eastern seaboard and I get jealous!

[Grit_dog]

JRscooby wrote:

ksss wrote:

That screaming of the engine is what gas engines need to do to make their power. All of them do it. Nothing is coming through the hood, diesels make their power at a much lower RPM. Some people can't stand that high RPM. Your options are deal with the high RPM or get a diesel.

If I had some way to prove it I would bet most people driving diesel spend more time above 90% of redline than gas engine drivers do.

Lantley wrote:
A screaming (hi Revving) engine. Does not produce a relaxing drive.
Don't get me wrong I understand that how the gas engine makes its power.
I still don't want to listen to it scream for the entire drive.
In time the noise wears me out....LOL

How much more sound absorbing is put around the diesel?

spoon059 wrote:

Lantley wrote:
Plus you get the benefit of the exhaust brake with diesel

Honestly, its the exhaust brake and low rpms of the diesel that keep me inclined to buy another diesel when I upgrade this truck in a couple years.

I have a kinda different look at this idea.
Has anybody seen a side by each comparison; Same gears, engine size load, exhaust brake on diesel and spark fired with closed throttle holding back on a down-grade?
Then think about this part. Something not involved in normal engine control must happen for the exhaust brake to began to slow vehicle. A bad electrical connection, no engine ******. OTOH, the gas engine, closed throttle is the default, engine braking will work even if engine will not run.

You’re really being a try hard here. Maybe time to step away from the keyboard and get out and enjoy the spring foliage and flowers!

[ksss]

JRscooby wrote:

ksss wrote:

That screaming of the engine is what gas engines need to do to make their power. All of them do it. Nothing is coming through the hood, diesels make their power at a much lower RPM. Some people can't stand that high RPM. Your options are deal with the high RPM or get a diesel.

If I had some way to prove it I would bet most people driving diesel spend more time above 90% of redline than gas engine drivers do.

Why do you think that? The only time I see higher RPM is with the exhaust brake when loaded heavy, then I would agree the revs get high when its steep and I am heavy. Other than that, I would completely disagree.

[MFL]

^Just an FYI for many who state RPMS. The S on the end is incorrect, as the M is for minute, not minutes. Now back to regular programming. 🙂

[Lantley]

valhalla360 wrote:

Lantley wrote:
A screaming (hi Revving) engine. Does not produce a relaxing drive.
Don't get me wrong I understand that how the gas engine makes its power.
I still don't want to listen to it scream for the entire drive.
In time the noise wears me out....LOL

Unless you are strictly driving in mountains, not a big deal. Most of the time our old V10 cruises a little over 2000 rpm. Can't hear it over wind and tire noise.

While you need to build some rpm, you don't need to red line it. Rarely take it over 3500rpm and have no problem keeping up with the semis. With the new more powerful engines mated to the 10 speed, it should be even better.

Of course this presumes you aren't trying to pull 16k or something silly. North of 14k 15k the extra power of the diesel starts making sense but that isn't what the OP described.

Unless your going downhill I doubt your V-10 stays at 2000 RPMS simply because diesels are generally in the 1500 2000 RPM range not gassers.
I do agree the gap is closing somewhat with the coming of 10 speed trannies and the 7.3 Ford gasser.
Nevertheless diesels have massive amounts of low end torque that improve your towing performance and experience even if your towing an 8K trailer.
We tend to focus on performance factors like RPMS and torque, but on a more basic level it's about the experience.
A diesel provides a much more relaxing, comfortable drive. In the end that is what you are paying for when you choose to go diesel

[JRscooby]

ksss wrote:

That screaming of the engine is what gas engines need to do to make their power. All of them do it. Nothing is coming through the hood, diesels make their power at a much lower RPM. Some people can't stand that high RPM. Your options are deal with the high RPM or get a diesel.

If I had some way to prove it I would bet most people driving diesel spend more time above 90% of redline than gas engine drivers do.

Lantley wrote:
A screaming (hi Revving) engine. Does not produce a relaxing drive.
Don't get me wrong I understand that how the gas engine makes its power.
I still don't want to listen to it scream for the entire drive.
In time the noise wears me out....LOL

How much more sound absorbing is put around the diesel?

spoon059 wrote:

Lantley wrote:
Plus you get the benefit of the exhaust brake with diesel

Honestly, its the exhaust brake and low rpms of the diesel that keep me inclined to buy another diesel when I upgrade this truck in a couple years.

I have a kinda different look at this idea.
Has anybody seen a side by each comparison; Same gears, engine size load, exhaust brake on diesel and spark fired with closed throttle holding back on a down-grade?
Then think about this part. Something not involved in normal engine control must happen for the exhaust brake to began to slow vehicle. A bad electrical connection, no engine ******. OTOH, the gas engine, closed throttle is the default, engine braking will work even if engine will not run.

[valhalla360]

Lantley wrote:
A screaming (hi Revving) engine. Does not produce a relaxing drive.
Don't get me wrong I understand that how the gas engine makes its power.
I still don't want to listen to it scream for the entire drive.
In time the noise wears me out....LOL

Unless you are strictly driving in mountains, not a big deal. Most of the time our old V10 cruises a little over 2000 rpm. Can't hear it over wind and tire noise.

While you need to build some rpm, you don't need to red line it. Rarely take it over 3500rpm and have no problem keeping up with the semis. With the new more powerful engines mated to the 10 speed, it should be even better.

Of course this presumes you aren't trying to pull 16k or something silly. North of 14k 15k the extra power of the diesel starts making sense but that isn't what the OP described.

[rhagfo]

JRscooby wrote:
Go up a 10 mile long grade at 60 MPH, takes you 10 minutes. Up the same grade at 30, takes 20 minutes. Now how much of your drive is steep enough to pull you down to 30? And the diesel will drop some speed too.
Bet if you really ran the numbers, in the course of a day you might save half hour, unless you are speeding in the diesel. Of course that does not account for the assault on manhood of somebody passing you.

Well if it a single lane road there will upset with you!
If a multi lane road, you run the chance of a nasty rear end collision.

[spoon059]

Lantley wrote:
Plus you get the benefit of the exhaust brake with diesel

Honestly, its the exhaust brake and low rpms of the diesel that keep me inclined to buy another diesel when I upgrade this truck in a couple years.

Being able to safely control speed going downhill without worrying about heating up my brakes is very comforting. Until a gas engine can get similar compression braking, it'll be hard to change my mind.

The other thing I love is the general lack of shifting in the diesel. Set the cruise at 68 mph and drive. Rolling hills and the turbo spools up a little and it keeps chugging. If I see a large hill coming, I downshift to 5th and let the turbo spool. When I had a gas engine, those little hills would downshift and rev the engine and the bigger hills would downshift even more and have loud revving up the hill. I know its fine for the engine, but the noise is annoying and tires me out more quickly.