National Parks and the Lack of Adequate # of Camp Sites

[Busskipper]

National Parks and the Lack of Adequate # of Camp Sites.

Sort of says it all - Now I have "No Dog in this fight" or "Horse in this Race"

BUT I sure would like to be able to get into YNP on a whim with my Granddaughters! And because they are Girls they require more WATER and ELECTRICITY, so it sure would be nice if the parks would make this Possible.

I personally have no issue - having Been there and Done that - and can do it again (With the present system) - but for the life of me I have a hard time understanding how a NP Service can let an area larger than the State of Rhode Island Burn, but has no ability to create a few more acres of CG's?

So I've opened the door to a very SENSITIVE ISSUE - let's stay civil and see if we can have a discussion that proposes Solutions to this issue. Private or Public - In the Park or out of the Park - Solutions not Sermons.

Let the Games Begin.

[NCWriter]

Bipeflier wrote:
Isn't this lack of space going to be "self healing" as us Baby Boomers can no longer travel?...

It will be self-healing sooner if there is another recession like the one in 2008. Most of us remember watching retirement accounts drop. A scary time along with gas prices that went up to $4 per gallon. RV sales ground to a halt, people were out of work, and the parks weren't as crowded for a while there.

[NCWriter]

Veebyes wrote:
We have been travelling 10 seasons, averaging 150 nights a season, usually not travelling August but every month April to November. We have done all the major NPs like Yosemite, GC, Yellowstone, Glacier, Denali. Most of them multiple times....

We rolled into Bay Bridge CG in Yellowstone NP one afternoon, mid week, mid July, NO reservations. We squeezed our 34' plus truck selves into one of few sites possible that were left. By dark there were still a very few open sites left. Bay Bridge is dry camping, open but not groomed at all, so the bison tend to roam through. A whole lot better IMO than Fishing Bridge CG which is nothing more than carpark camping with utilities & always booked solid.

For clarification in case someone wants to stay there, I believe poster meant to write "Bridge Bay" CG in Yellowstone.

[monkey44]

If we continue building new and larger campgrounds, we'll all have plenty of room but nothing to see.

[Bipeflier]

Isn't this lack of space going to be "self healing" as us Baby Boomers can no longer travel?

Expansion now would end up with unused/unneeded space in 20 years.

[Searching_Ut]

Seems the National Parks have hit record high attendance yet again for 2016. I know there has been a lot of discussion locally in the media in regards to how to limit visitation to the Utah National parks, Zion, Bryce and Arches in Particular.

KSL News story on NP attendance

[Bayerlake]

We stayed in Gardiner, Montana right outside Yellowstone at a private full hook up campground. It was perfect. Spent our days visiting the park.

[Us_out_West]

Roy&Lynne wrote:
National Parks are our treasures and need to stay as pristine as we can keep them, which means limiting the numbers of people who visit to keep it that way. The only solution would be to have private parks on the outside that offer bus or van trips into the park and out.

Thank you!!!

First come....first get!

Safe travels

[Roy_Lynne]

National Parks are our treasures and need to stay as pristine as we can keep them, which means limiting the numbers of people who visit to keep it that way. The only solution would be to have private parks on the outside that offer bus or van trips into the park and out.

[Busskipper]

First let me Commend all of you – “This was a Great Discussion and stayed Civil” – and a few even addressed the Question – The answer I was able to glean, is we don’t add camp sites because, some do not want to …. And that the Mission is to Preserve the Parks……..but “ to provide for the enjoyment of the same in such a manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations” I see the “provide for the enjoyment” …….. Others see the …….”leave them unimpaired”………. So there is a difference in how we preserve the Mission of the Park System, and “I” can only assume, that Camp Grounds, are not a viable option in the operation of today’s Parks, so the "leave them the way they are", was in the Majority, and will continue to carry the day.

My question or thought, was focused by a post of family not being able to get into the Park 6 months before they planned on being there. Is there a way for a family to get to a National Park and not be denied access that was granted to us years ago. So it not really about ME, rather it’s about Them, it’s about fairness and opportunities, as this resource is used more and more.

As a believer in the free enterprise system then it appears that the solution is to allow Camp Grounds to be developed OUTSIDE the Parks, In the National Forest, and or on Private Land, thus forcing, even more traffic, and more congestion to get into and around the Parks. This begs the question of Fairness to our Kids and Grand Kids, as We have already enjoyed the Parks in a different time, in a different way.

Thank you all for being involved in this discussion and my hope is that it might just stir up a little more interest in the way the Parks are Run, Funded and the Future use.

FYI, How MY Girls CAMP with their Parents – Turquoise Lake last October and Yes it Snowed the Next Day

So they can handle it – and because I usually do not stay in a FHU site, I tend to enjoy the Parks when they are unpopulated and only need to dump every 7-10 days, so I have, like most of us “Adapted” to the way the system is. The fact is, I, personally, really have no need for the parks to change – I don’t make reservations and have never had an issue, with or without the Kids, I actually enjoy the Parks more in the Off Season, and that is when I tend to visit them.

My camp site in Madison, in November – more animals – No traffic – few people


Thanks Again,

[RGar974417]

My wife and I,along with our 2 boys and my 2 nieces camped first in a pop up and later in a travel trailer,most times without electric. We were in Yellowstone in May. We stayed in Madison Campground and they allow generator use from 8am to 8pm. So if the girls need to use a blow dryer or charge their phones they can do it when you run the genny. Have them use the campground bathrooms during the day so you don;t have to dump tanks and refill water. There are no showers in Madison but there are pay showers at some of the other facilities.During the day you will be driving all over the park so phones can be charged in the car/truck. Be aware most places in the park don't have cell service.My wife has Verizon and I have Sprint.It seems that Verizon had more coverage.If you want all the amenities you could stay in West Yellowstone. But it's an 18 mile drive to get to Madison and another 16 miles to old Faithful which is why you should stay in the park. As to why the NPS doesn't expand their campgrounds or add hookups is probably because of the environmental lobby. Anytime the NPS or Forest Service want to modernize or expand, the environmental lobby opposes it and sometimes ties it up in court.To me, I am fine with the way they are. Many Forest Service and COE Campgrounds have electric, at least here in the east and south.

[Veebyes]

We have been travelling 10 seasons, averaging 150 nights a season, usually not travelling August but every month April to November. We have done all the major NPs like Yosemite, GC, Yellowstone, Glacier, Denali. Most of them multiple times.

Very seldom have reservations been made at any of these parks. The few times have been for dates spanning a holiday weekend. Yes, you have to play the game a bit. At a high demand CG get there on Thursday. At a not so high demand area get there early on Friday for the weekend. Except for the really high demand parks like Yosemite Sunday to Thursday is usually no problem without reservations.

There is a trick to that too. Don't be so demanding. Be prepared to dry camp if necessary. A dry site is better than no site at all.

I wonder if the problem is not so much the lack of sites but the lack of sites with the trimmings like W/E minimum?

We rolled into Bay Bridge CG in Yellowstone NP one afternoon, mid week, mid July, NO reservations. We squeezed our 34' plus truck selves into one of few sites possible that were left. By dark there were still a very few open sites left. Bay Bridge is dry camping, open but not groomed at all, so the bison tend to roam through. A whole lot better IMO than Fishing Bridge CG which is nothing more than carpark camping with utilities & always booked solid.

[1968mooney]

Snowman9000 wrote:
I'll give some suggestions that I am sure will be unpopular. But at some level of implementation, they would help.

1) Raise prices for campsites until there are vacancies.

2) Raise prices for the geezer pass. A lot.

3) Experiment with demand pricing, like say airlines do. Offer some spaces at high prices for people who aren't willing to jump through all the reservations hoops far in advance.

I am 58 y.o., and I am sick over the current situation. We've never been to a NP, and we dread dealing with all of the problems that this thread is about. For once in a lifetime to say Yellowstone, I'd gladly pay $100 a night if it meant we can get in when we want to and without playing reservations roulette a year in advance. I've piddled away more than that on dumber things. And I'm a cheapskate! But, there is value to me in being able to actually see the park once. It's no different than buying tickets to a championship game on StubHub for a once in a lifetime. When the demand is so much bigger than the supply, something has to give.

You can say it's not fair. Is the present system fair? Really? The present system rewards people who know how to play the game, and are willing to. It's not as if the park CGs are full of orphans and their minimum wage foster parents. I'm sure for most of the campers, the camping fee is a minimal part of their trip costs. People pay a LOT to camp at Fort Wilderness. Why not pay a lot to camp in the real thing?

It's like places with rent controlled apartments. It's great for the lucky few that have them. But it stinks for everyone else who'd like to live there and is willing pay a normal rent.

Raise em to the market price, whatever that turns out to be.

🙂

Add #4 to your list. Only 1 visit every 10 yrs. That will stop the abusers and thin out the campgrounds.

[GordonThree]

IF you're willing to spend whatever it takes for a stay at Yellowstone, visit the website and get a room or two at the lodge. Plenty available via the online reservation system right now.

Figure on about $300/night, that includes a private bathroom with a hairdryer.

Every National Park I've visited, over 20 of them now, I've stayed in or near during the shoulder season, without reservations, and without drama. I have not stayed in Yellowstone, I don't really care to, it's not my kind of park. I've been there, seen the geyser, visited the prismatic ponds, got the t-shirt.

[Snowman9000]

I'll give some suggestions that I am sure will be unpopular. But at some level of implementation, they would help.

1) Raise prices for campsites until there are vacancies.

2) Raise prices for the geezer pass. A lot.

3) Experiment with demand pricing, like say airlines do. Offer some spaces at high prices for people who aren't willing to jump through all the reservations hoops far in advance.

I am 58 y.o., and I am sick over the current situation. We've never been to a NP, and we dread dealing with all of the problems that this thread is about. For once in a lifetime to say Yellowstone, I'd gladly pay $100 a night if it meant we can get in when we want to and without playing reservations roulette a year in advance. I've piddled away more than that on dumber things. And I'm a cheapskate! But, there is value to me in being able to actually see the park once. It's no different than buying tickets to a championship game on StubHub for a once in a lifetime. When the demand is so much bigger than the supply, something has to give.

You can say it's not fair. Is the present system fair? Really? The present system rewards people who know how to play the game, and are willing to. It's not as if the park CGs are full of orphans and their minimum wage foster parents. I'm sure for most of the campers, the camping fee is a minimal part of their trip costs. People pay a LOT to camp at Fort Wilderness. Why not pay a lot to camp in the real thing?

It's like places with rent controlled apartments. It's great for the lucky few that have them. But it stinks for everyone else who'd like to live there and is willing pay a normal rent.

Raise em to the market price, whatever that turns out to be.

🙂

[Searching_Ut]

As someone who has attended quite a few land use type meetings over the years, to include a couple recent ones for Utah National Parks, it's interesting to see how varied the desires and opinions are in regards to park management. Simple fact is they can't please everyone, and the National Parks will not be able to accommodate the amount of use that is predicted through future years. Public perception of RV's in general is somewhat negative, and there really aren't any groups out there lobbying for use so I expect to see RV'ing, especially boondocking type stuff, going away completely on public lands within 20 years or so. Entry to the parks themselves will almost certainly become restricted, although how the rationing or limitations will be handled is something I'm not certain of. The Park service is still trying to sort that out. They've currently had to close the gates for entry on Zion and Arches a few times that I'm aware of now because the crowds got to big to handle, and the projections are that the crowds will continue to increase for the foreseeable future.

If you've been to one of the western National Parks during peak season in the last few years you're probably quite aware how difficult just getting around the parks to the major sites has now become. While surface area wise they might seem big, the crowds are simply huge, and tend to want to all be in the same key areas.