Proposed Immigration rules for Snowbirds

[moisheh]

US Immigration supposedly will be changing some of the regs re snowbirds. This has been discussed here previously. BUT, according to USA Today the new 8 month rule will only apply to those who own homes or have long term rentals. Not much help for RV'rs.


Moisheh

[Almot]

Tequila wrote:
Canadian medicare will cover you up to what it would cost in Canada which works in Mexico for the most part, so you just buy Evac insurance.

A while ago after some digging I found funny numbers like $60 a day for hospital room if outside Canada, and about same much for outpatient doctors. While outpatient specialist in MX can really cost $60-100, I doubt that hospital will be $60. Definitely not a private hospital. As to their public hospitals.... I would consider it a very, very last resort, like if I'm in so bad shape that can't make it to Canada. It's a poor country, lines in emergency rooms in a big city like Ensenada are longer than in Vancouver, less equipment and nurses are less trained. We are complaining on nurses and LPs in BC, but in Mexico they are worse yet 🙂

Evac insurance is a must. Often it's included in travel insurance or annual plan, and should be added if it's not. Note that the majority of Evac plans will bring you to the "closest" hospital, not the hospital of your choice, so if they take you to San Diego because Ensenanda can't handle it, then Canadian provincial plan will be useless, you must have a private insurance for the US, and this is costly. Some standalone Evac plans will bring you to the hospital of your choice - if you are in a shape good enough to make such a decision and to survive trip to a distant hospital of your choice.

[Tequila]

It would sure be nice if the US & Canada went into something similar to the Eurozone where you can live & work in each others country as much as you want. It would not work with Mexico obviously, but our 2 countries are so close economically it would not be a problem.

Medical is of course the big issue, it gets expensive to cover yourself, which is one reason why I winter in Mexico instead. Canadian medicare will cover you up to what it would cost in Canada which works in Mexico for the most part, so you just buy Evac insurance. You would be lucky if it covers your bedpan in the US. I never enter the US without medical insurance.

[Almot]

John & Angela wrote:
if you leave for more than 7 months every year you will have to get a permanent expat plan. Still doable. Expats do it all the time. All it takes is money. ??

Annual coverage in US and Canada is a lot of money. I'm not at this point yet, but here is one plan:
https://www.sevencorners.com/brochure/Expat_Health_Plan_Brochure12.pdf cost 4K a year with 1,1000 deductible (20% of $5,000 +$100), this is at the age 69, it looks like they don't cover people over 69. The quote includes very little outpatient treatment, almost none. More outpatient treatment can be added for extra $$. Organ transplants can be added for a lot more $$$.

Here is another one:
https://global.ihi.com/Health+Insurance/IHHP/Premium+2010.aspx cost 7K annually with 400 deductible, 5K with 1,600 deductible, this is for age of 60 though it says "renewals only" ?, not clear how much at the age 69, and coverage is up to age of 80. Outpatient treatment can be added for extra $$.

[John___Angela]

Almot wrote:

John & Angela wrote:
Medical insurance is not a problem. Just get a private policy for the time you are out of country plus 3 months.

Paying private for 3 months won't buy you any exemption from provincial rules. Provincial plan expires after 7 months total in calendar year. Then you return and stay 3 months on the private, re-apply for provincial plan, and leave the country again - and the plan will expire immediately, or will not be recognized if you try and get treatment within or outside Canada. Because you will not have stayed 7 months in that calendar year. You MIGHT get lucky and they won't terminate the plan if they don't check, but this is gambling against very high stakes if you get sick.

John & Angela wrote:
Taxes shouldn't be a problem if filing the "closer ties to" form.

I know of CRA circular on what to consider "close ties to Canada", but didn't know that we have to file such a form, and how often. My understanding is if you remain tax resident for CRA, and CRA doesn't allege that your status has changed, you don't need to file anything but regular tax return.

The "closer ties to" is filed to the IRS not the CRA. I think it's form 8840. And I think it's actually called "closer connection to" or something like that. We file it every year.

Re the medical, agreed, if you leave for more than 7 months every year you will have to get a permanent expat plan. Still doable. Expats do it all the time. All it takes is money. ??

[Almot]

John & Angela wrote:
Medical insurance is not a problem. Just get a private policy for the time you are out of country plus 3 months.

Paying private for 3 months won't buy you any exemption from provincial rules. Provincial plan expires after 7 months total in calendar year. Then you return and stay 3 months on the private, re-apply for provincial plan, and leave the country again - and the plan will expire immediately, or will not be recognized if you try and get treatment within or outside Canada. Because you will not have stayed 7 months in that calendar year. You MIGHT get lucky and they won't terminate the plan if they don't check, but this is gambling against very high stakes if you get sick.

John & Angela wrote:
Taxes shouldn't be a problem if filing the "closer ties to" form.

I know of CRA circular on what to consider "close ties to Canada", but didn't know that we have to file such a form, and how often. My understanding is if you remain tax resident for CRA, and CRA doesn't allege that your status has changed, you don't need to file anything but regular tax return.

[John___Angela]

The Texan wrote:
Work within the new rules.......Buy a RV lot in the foothills of east Yuma and then use it as a rental in season to offset your cost. That way you are a property owner and qualify.....:B

This would be a question I would ask. We own an RV lot in Palm Springs. I wonder if it would qualify as a home or does it have to have a certain value.

Medical insurance is not a problem. Just get a private policy for the time you are out of country plus 3 months. This is one problem that goes away if you throw a little money at it.

Taxes shouldn't be a problem if filing the "closer ties to" form. For those who travel to Mexico it has never been a problem as they can do 4 months in the US and 3 months in Mexico during the colder months. We will eventually split our time up evenly over the three north american countries. Till then we will continue to work 5 or 6 months a year anyway.

[Almot]

Elizabeth24 wrote:
Medical coverage is something to think about also wonder if it would effect CPP and OAS, don't think that my company pension would be a problem. Also the cost of additional insurance might get very expensive.

Let's not confuse totally different things. 8-months US rule has nothing to do with Canadian restrictions.

• Provinical plan is a problem - you can't have more than 7 months total absence in calendar year. In BC plan I don't think they give a slack to people who cross the border often - not in official texts anyway
• CPP is not a problem
• "Company pension" - don't know about this, but probably not a problem either
• OAS is not a problem, assuming you lived 20 years in Canada after 18th birthday
• GIS is not a problem, but you have to return briefly to Canada after 6 months, and also to make sure that you remain "tax resident" for CRA
• Private medical insurance outside Canada is not a problem term-wise, you can have it as many months as you like, though many companies only sell maximum 6-months coverage. But it is a problem age-wise, because after the age 69-75 the coverage limits are usually low. It also becomes VERY expensive if it includes US when you are over 69-75.

Luckyd - Canadians don't have same health coverage in Mexico as US citizens. US Medicare is valid no matter where you are, but only covers treatment in the US if I'm correct. Canadians abroad lose their "Medicare" after 7 months in calendar year, and it can only be reinstated after 3 months stay in Canada. Canadian Medicare does cover treatment abroad, but the amount is laughable, barely enough to cover hospital stay in the cheapest Mx hospital, and not enough to cover a decent private hospital in Mx. Trying to use Canadian Medicare in the US would be a disaster, the amounts are 1/10 or even less of the US treatment costs.

Mexican public plan that some resident foreigners use/abuse, is apparently worse than Canadian Medicare in Canada. Longer waits, fewer good specialists. I wouldn't count on it. It only works for their public hospitals - not private ones. I also wouldn't count on personnel speaking English in MX public hospitals.

[luckyd]

BC has now (Jan.1/2013) passed the bill allowing 7 months
out of province.
ALSO>>>>>every five years, you can apply to be out of province
for two years. Medical coverage will continue, so will payments.

Apparently, Canada only allows US citizens the 180 days also.

Not sure when we will eventually get rid of the border regulations,
etc.

It is cheaper by far for a Canadian to go to Mexico, buy a home,
and have health care than it is to do the same in the US.
The States need our "snowbird" money, but it is getting way too costly.

[CardinalRule]

The article says Manitoba has a 7 month absence rule. did they just change that because last time I looked it was 6 months and you were to notify them in writing if away for more than 3 months? This to insure coverage.

Here is the info;

"What if I’m planning an extended vacation?

If you are a permanent resident of Manitoba and plan to go on vacation for longer than three months, you may continue your health coverage.

To be eligible for continued coverage, you must be in Manitoba for at least 183 days (six months) of the year.These days do not have to be consecutive (i.e., 183 days in total each calendar year, not 183 days in a row).

Before leaving for any extended absence, provide the following information to the Insured Benefits Branch in writing:

your name;
your six-digit Manitoba Health number;
confirmation of your permanent Manitoba address;
the date you will leave;
the date you plan to return;
your out-of-province address and telephone number;
the names of any family members who will accompany you on the trip; and
the reason for your absence

You will get a term certificate confirming your coverage with Manitoba Health. It is important to remember you may need to purchase health insurance especially if you are traveling outside of Canada."

and the web site

[netjam]

Lots of roadblocks...US tax as mentioned, I think almost all travel insurance has 6 month maximum coverage, most provincial health care programs do not allow 8 months out of the province, etc etc.

[RedAce]

IMO the most significant issue related to the eight month stay is the 182 day limit under the international tax treaty. Canadians who stay in the US for more than 182 days will be considered to be US residents for tax purposes, and will be subject to US income taxes on their world income regardless of country of origin. This could be very messy for the uninformed.

[More_To_See]

I read an article on this. It's being introduced by I think a New York congressman concerned about the business his state does not get because all the Canadians use up their 6 months way down south all winter.

You have to be at least 55 and have some rental agreement or similar down in Snowbird country. I think an RV pad would meet the requirement from what I read.

There was also some subtle mention about a tax implication being ignored in the bill for this country (US). Don't know what that's all about.

I've always been puzzled why a Canadian can't come down here for as long as they want to Snowbird but then there is a lot about Washington that puzzles me.

Globe & Mail article with pretty good coverage of the subject.

[The_Texan]

Work within the new rules.......Buy a RV lot in the foothills of east Yuma and then use it as a rental in season to offset your cost. That way you are a property owner and qualify.....:B

[Elizabeth24]

Medical coverage is something to think about also wonder if it would effect CPP and OAS, don't think that my company pension would be a problem. Also the cost of additional insurance might get very expensive.