California adds 12 cent gas tax and 20 cent diesel tax

[agesilaus]

Link

[westernrvparkow]

WTP-GC wrote:
Some of the money of the fuel taxes will go to actual road repair efforts...SOME.
Like all other sates, cities, counties, etc. that pass similar ordinances, the moey collected goes in many different directions.

So you have this pot of money for road projects. Now where to spend it...??
(We're going to assume for this example that all work is done by government road crews)
First you have to evaluate what roads need to be fixed, so you hire a consultant (cha-ching).
Then you have to pay the salary of those government workers who manage the consultants.
You have to pay for studies, public notices, permits, etc.
Great, now we know what road(s) we're going to work on, so dispatch the road crews.
But wait, you have to pay the salaries, benefits, and expenses of such crews.
And they can't have an old work truck, only new trucks will suffice.
New tools and logos for the trucks too.
And they have to have new equipment, with state of the art maintanance facilities.
You can't "learn" how to operate such equipment. Instead you have to be "trained" (cha-ching).
Now let's get to work. Send all 12 of the road crew guys out there to do a 6 man job.
They'll start at the shop at 8 AM, make plans, hit the road by 9. Arrive onsite around 9:30, setup some signs, make more plans, take a break for lunch, get started for the first time, then leave at 3 so they can get back to the shop by 4.
Dang, Juan broke his pinky finger. Suck it up, right? Nope, 6 weeks of PTO. (I'll break mine too)
Hold on, now there's a group of environmental protestors. Stop the show.

On and on it goes until almost none of the money goes directly to any actual road repair efforts. And of course, they're not going to fix "your" road. That road, well, it's waaaaayyyyy down the list...if we have any money left over.

You left out things like: "we have the ditch dug, but we cannot work on it until the OSHA inspector approves. Lean on your shovels and rack up some overtime"
"The excavator's air filter clogged, we have another one and Bob can easily change it, but union rules require we call out the mechanic and he can't make it till tomorrow. it's already 9AM nearly 1 hour into the workday, so go home everyone will get their full 8 hours of pay"
"The road work has advanced 200 feet and now construction work is more than the legally allowed distance from the porta-potty, can't work until the septic company comes and relocates it. Take the rest of the week off, with pay"
"Found an old chicken bone while we were digging up the old road. This could be a sacred archaeological site. We need to stop all work and consider rerouting the entire road while the historians and archaeologists take few years researching. Don't worry about your pay, we will get an emergency appropriation and then make additional millions preserving the bone forever"
"Cease and desist all work forever. It rained last night and a mud puddle is now in the way. This makes the entire area a wetland and it is now protected from all development. Jackpot, the reroute of the road adds 20 miles and 500 million to the costs. Who needs the lottery, we have government".

[westernrvparkow]

mileshuff wrote:

NYCgrrl wrote:
Mass transit IS essential to any community that is not simply thinking of the able bodied.

A mass transit system that is mainly used by the disabled isn't very practical and efficient.

Mass transit works great in cities where large population centers move daily from a housing districts to a work districts. Cities like San Francisco is a good example moving people from the east and south bays to SF and back every day. Mass transit fails in the majority of our nations cities where jobs and housing are scattered citywide without concentrations of either.

You are 100 percent correct. What works in NYC or Boston has no chance of succeeding in Los Angeles, Dallas or Hungry Horse Montana. That is why the Federal and State Government fails when it comes to dealing with local issues. There is no "one size fits all" answer to transportation, education, welfare, housing etc. But government believes they can conjure up a sweeping proposal and solve all the ills. It cannot happen.
Then there is the question of whether or not more money will actually make better roads, or will they just spend the extra money on fancier looking bridges, higher pay for highway workers, public transportation where it is not wanted or needed and showcase projects that never pan out (anyone want a Monorail? Bueller? Anyone?).

[monkey44]

WTP-GC wrote:
Some of the money of the fuel taxes will go to actual road repair efforts...SOME.
Like all other sates, cities, counties, etc. that pass similar ordinances, the moey collected goes in many different directions.

So you have this pot of money for road projects. Now where to spend it...??
(We're going to assume for this example that all work is done by government road crews)
First you have to evaluate what roads need to be fixed, so you hire a consultant (cha-ching).
Then you have to pay the salary of those government workers who manage the consultants.
You have to pay for studies, public notices, permits, etc.
Great, now we know what road(s) we're going to work on, so dispatch the road crews.
But wait, you have to pay the salaries, benefits, and expenses of such crews.
And they can't have an old work truck, only new trucks will suffice.
New tools and logos for the trucks too.
And they have to have new equipment, with state of the art maintanance facilities.
You can't "learn" how to operate such equipment. Instead you have to be "trained" (cha-ching).
Now let's get to work. Send all 12 of the road crew guys out there to do a 6 man job.
They'll start at the shop at 8 AM, make plans, hit the road by 9. Arrive onsite around 9:30, setup some signs, make more plans, take a break for lunch, get started for the first time, then leave at 3 so they can get back to the shop by 4.
Dang, Juan broke his pinky finger. Suck it up, right? Nope, 6 weeks of PTO. (I'll break mine too)
Hold on, now there's a group of environmental protestors. Stop the show.

On and on it goes until almost none of the money goes directly to any actual road repair efforts. And of course, they're not going to fix "your" road. That road, well, it's waaaaayyyyy down the list...if we have any money left over.

Having served as a consultant and contractor once or twice on state highway project and community development committees (and helped build a new elementary school), this one hits the target directly in the bulls-eye - the waste in government contracts is tremendous ... easily more than half the allotment.

[Us_out_West]

More justification for our 65 gal. diesel aux fuel tank.

[mileshuff]

NYCgrrl wrote:
Mass transit IS essential to any community that is not simply thinking of the able bodied.

A mass transit system that is mainly used by the disabled isn't very practical and efficient.

Mass transit works great in cities where large population centers move daily from a housing districts to a work districts. Cities like San Francisco is a good example moving people from the east and south bays to SF and back every day. Mass transit fails in the majority of our nations cities where jobs and housing are scattered citywide without concentrations of either.

[mileshuff]

JIMNLIN wrote:
IF my state will improve roads and bridges within the state with a fuel tax increase I'm all for it.

Thats why people keep approving ever increasing taxes. The illusion that all problems will be solved. California already has some of the nations highest taxes yet little is ever improved except the pocketbooks of those raising the rates. Born and raised in CA, learned and left!

[NYCgrrl]

spoon059 wrote:

NYCgrrl wrote:
Of course the reverse can be said of car-less citizens who pay for roads they have no direct use for. In some parts of the country mass transit is the norm and car ownership unusual.

The difference is that those roads are used to transport freight, police and fire fighters... services that the car-less citizens still use. Those are essential services that benefit everyone in society and are part of the core goals of the federal government.

High speed transit that costs an exorbitant amount of money and benefits very few people is not a core goal of government. I'm not opposed to high speed transit options to give options for domestic air travel, but these are excessive costs for a relatively small stretch of rail.

I'm not opposed to higher fuel taxes, you have to pay to play. The issue that I have is politicians (in either party) that jack the tax of particular item and then use those funds to support projects unrelated to those taxes. Use fuel taxes to fix the roads, bridges and public safety associated with roads.

Mass transit IS essential to any community that is not simply thinking of the currently able bodied.
Children, certain physically challenged people, the poor, senior citizens, come to mind off the top of my head and least this way it isn't regulated solely to them.

Over 2 million people of all socioeconomic classes ride the transit system of NYC daily; wouldn't want to see, smell, or hear, half that amt of personal vehicles daily, LOL.

You want your personal chariot?
Be my guest but puhleese, downhome, don't condemn the rest of us to a lower form of Communism:P.
We are alllll about a veddy pure form of capitalism that allows the lil worker bees to get to their life's work on time;):B.

Imagine the first time I visited another "big" city in this country(Boston) and realised the trolleys stopped running at midnight or "some don't they party all night/ work all day?" hour( NYC runs 24/7). And and if you walk in parts of FL people think you're up to no good, LMAO. Can't wait to see how Nebraska parties...

What an eye-opener on how others live and for me that's what travel is all about:C.

[Lynnmor]

Old-Biscuit wrote:
CA 7th highest at start of 2017-------new taxes in Nov will push it to 2nd place



Fuel Taxes USA

We in PA are still in the lead, and with more tax increases slated for the foreseeable future, we expect that no other state can catch us. Note that diesel engines are more fuel efficient so we penalize those that make an effort to reduce fuel consumption. Yes, our roads are worse than ever, the money is spent on pet projects like mass transit.

[spoon059]

NYCgrrl wrote:
Of course the reverse can be said of car-less citizens who pay for roads they have no direct use for. In some parts of the country mass transit is the norm and car ownership unusual.

The difference is that those roads are used to transport freight, police and fire fighters... services that the car-less citizens still use. Those are essential services that benefit everyone in society and are part of the core goals of the federal government.

High speed transit that costs an exorbitant amount of money and benefits very few people is not a core goal of government. I'm not opposed to high speed transit options to give options for domestic air travel, but these are excessive costs for a relatively small stretch of rail.

I'm not opposed to higher fuel taxes, you have to pay to play. The issue that I have is politicians (in either party) that jack the tax of particular item and then use those funds to support projects unrelated to those taxes. Use fuel taxes to fix the roads, bridges and public safety associated with roads.

[WTP-GC]

Some of the money of the fuel taxes will go to actual road repair efforts...SOME.
Like all other sates, cities, counties, etc. that pass similar ordinances, the moey collected goes in many different directions.

So you have this pot of money for road projects. Now where to spend it...??
(We're going to assume for this example that all work is done by government road crews)
First you have to evaluate what roads need to be fixed, so you hire a consultant (cha-ching).
Then you have to pay the salary of those government workers who manage the consultants.
You have to pay for studies, public notices, permits, etc.
Great, now we know what road(s) we're going to work on, so dispatch the road crews.
But wait, you have to pay the salaries, benefits, and expenses of such crews.
And they can't have an old work truck, only new trucks will suffice.
New tools and logos for the trucks too.
And they have to have new equipment, with state of the art maintanance facilities.
You can't "learn" how to operate such equipment. Instead you have to be "trained" (cha-ching).
Now let's get to work. Send all 12 of the road crew guys out there to do a 6 man job.
They'll start at the shop at 8 AM, make plans, hit the road by 9. Arrive onsite around 9:30, setup some signs, make more plans, take a break for lunch, get started for the first time, then leave at 3 so they can get back to the shop by 4.
Dang, Juan broke his pinky finger. Suck it up, right? Nope, 6 weeks of PTO. (I'll break mine too)
Hold on, now there's a group of environmental protestors. Stop the show.

On and on it goes until almost none of the money goes directly to any actual road repair efforts. And of course, they're not going to fix "your" road. That road, well, it's waaaaayyyyy down the list...if we have any money left over.

[NYCgrrl]

down home wrote:

Talk of mass transit is essentially nosnes for most people. Some will get to use but everyone pays for it.

Of course the reverse can be said of car-less citizens who pay for roads they have no direct use for. In some parts of the country mass transit is the norm and car ownership unusual.

[down_home]

California is not Europe. Most people cannot avail themselves of the single line they have now.
Many dive fifty even one hundred miles each day to and from work.
There is not enough room or available housing on top of where they work.
And unlike Europe they don't get six weeks or ore vacation which take a load off transit.
Talk of mass transit is essentially nosnes for most people. Some will get to use but everyone pays for it.
The essntial problem is they are trying to engineer a vehicle less society, and in socialist system where those that work, who will and are outnumbered by those that aren't working in California get the same level of income. Those engineering and managing this scheme live above it and crack the whip.
Moonbeam Brown's utopia or socialist paradise where everyone smokes dope, wears hair shirts, and lives in huts, and rides bikes and spend their hours at corner coffee houses being enlightened, by readings of Marks etc is the height of delusion and foolishness. They think they can mange our lives for our benefit better than we can. What they mean is they can run the train around the track and build the railroad to suit them and we are forced to pay and abide.

[John___Angela]

I'm a foreigner but also own property and pay taxes in California and live there a few months of the year so I get some of the comments. Curious though. I have always been a fan of high speed rail. We spend time in Europe and love the high speed trains. You get on and off in the centre of the city (unlike airports) 300 KMH, ccomfortable, quiet, lots of leg room, bathrooms, restaurant and bar. 10 times nicer than travelling by air and usually just as fast as there are no big expensive cab rides down town. I have never figured out why there is so much resistance to them on this side of the pond. Cultural thing I guess.

We still like California. Very multicultural. Good hiking. Not stuck in the fifties. Everyone has different tastes of course.

[timmac]

Chris Bryant wrote:
Good for them. That's why their economy is among the strongest of states.

That's funny you say that, they have raised fuel taxes many times and have said it was to repair the bad pot hole roads but they never do so what do they do they raise fuel tax again and again and say its to repair the many bad roads but they never do in so many parts of the state.

Also Cali is billion and billions in debt.. :R

[TyroneandGladys]

Bad roads, higher fuel cost, a 55MPH speed limit and stuck in the right lane wonder why I am going to bypass California on the trip back from Washington? And to top that off our RV is old school carbureted and have no issues when in Arizona but let me fill up in California I will start having occasional back fires get back to Arizona after the second fill up no more backfires.