In case you wonder

[free_radical]

What really hapens to used EV and other lithium bateries

https://youtu.be/s2xrarUWVRQ?si=MFGZaDvZDsfI72hx

[StirCrazy]

free radical wrote:



Ontario is a leader in renewables and nuclear. In 2018, over one-third of Ontario's electricity generation was from renewables and over 92% was from non-emitting sources. Slower growth in new renewable capacity is expected over the medium-term, while substantial nuclear refurbishments are planned over the next decade

sounds like you're a little behind, in BC, 98% of the power we generate is from clean, renewable sources. and 89% is from Hydro-electric which leaves no spent fuel to figure out how to get rid of. I do think places that don't have access to water for electricity production like we do should be looking at nuclear though. doesn't have to even be big plants, but the mini reactors they are working on that could power a neighborhood.

[LJAZ]

free radical wrote:


You can put men on the moon but cant build reliable energy network!?
What hapened to this Build Back Better promise.

There is $65 billion in the bipartisan infrastructure bill for exactly that. Going to take some time though.

[free_radical]

Crowe wrote:
It's not just about the recycling. It's about the process, which at this point in time has it's drawbacks. https://blog.evbox.com/ev-battery-environmental-impact. With 60% of our current electricity coming from fossil fuels, that presents a whole new set of issues. My concern would be in states that have rotating blackouts such as California or the issues Texas has. . Then there's the whole issue of lost revenue from lack of gas taxes that will most likely be made up by new taxes elsewhere. Just some things to think about.

EV are already being charged yearly when renewing plate sticker.
Payin by miles driven by reading odometer would be most fair method imo.

Btw in my neck of the woods its like this

Ontario is a leader in renewables and nuclear. In 2018, over one-third of Ontario's electricity generation was from renewables and over 92% was from non-emitting sources. Slower growth in new renewable capacity is expected over the medium-term, while substantial nuclear refurbishments are planned over the next decade
/quote

You can put men on the moon but cant build reliable energy network!?
What hapened to this Build Back Better promise.
---
In near future
Europe wont allow sales of any New cell phones unless one can replace bateries easy without any tools

[NamMedevac_70]

Thanks for sharing. A great deal of buyers remorse out there.


Cheers to good camping and fishing and jeers to the PR at BM

[pbeverly]

I live in SC where a few years ago they shut down the contruction of two new nuclear reactors due to conctruction mis-management and huge cost over runs. Two utilities companies were sharing the cost of the project. Before the whole project collapsed one of the companies wanted out because they didn't see the need for all that extra production.

Fast forward to now. Last winter due to extreme cold there were some rolling blackouts in SC because the demand could not be handled.

My power company sends out emails during expected high demand events (extreme cold and heat) which ask you to put off some high electrical use during certain hours during the extreme event. One of the things they ask and that you do not charge your EV.

There is a lot of BIG industry moving to SC further creating demand issues. Yesterday during the daily walk with the wife I stated within 5 years they will wish they finished the new reactors. This morning a SC State Agency is now trying to figure out a paln for the future. New nuclear, convert old coal plants to gas...... It will take over a decade for any new power production to come online.

[Crowe]

It's not just about the recycling. It's about the process, which at this point in time has it's drawbacks. https://blog.evbox.com/ev-battery-environmental-impact. With 60% of our current electricity coming from fossil fuels, that presents a whole new set of issues. My concern would be in states that have rotating blackouts such as California or the issues Texas has. https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/fords-ceo-admits-reality-check-during-f-150-lightning-route-6... Then there's the whole issue of lost revenue from lack of gas taxes that will most likely be made up by new taxes elsewhere. Just some things to think about.

[JaxDad]

ferndaleflyer wrote:
And Tesla is building a BIG battery plant right up the road here in NC to build NEW ones...Nothing mentioned about recycle.

It’s the ‘Wally World Effect’ in play, lower prices everyday. No different than “Buy American” unless the offshore product is significantly cheaper that is.

It’s been the ‘dirty little green secret’ for some time now. Sure you can recycle Li batteries! But the end result is raw material to build new batteries that cost about 5 times what just mined virgin material costs.

The end result? The consumers (buying EV’s) and the bean counters (building EV’s) decision rules, cheaper is better, and more cheaper is more better.

Wait until people realize just how massive the buried / deferred taxes on EV’s will be, once it’s in their driveway it will be too late for second thoughts.

[time2roll]

Yes so the real landfill culprit is the end user, not the EV/Phone/Tool manufacturer where the blame is placed.

Eventually may need a CRV deposit like on an aluminum beer can.

[Reisender]

ferndaleflyer wrote:
And Tesla is building a BIG battery plant right up the road here in NC to build NEW ones...Nothing mentioned about recycle.

Teslas recycle operations are in Nevada. Always have been. But they only recycle their own which are very few.

Panasonic essentially does part of the process and tesla the rest. Panasonic utilizes the recovered materials. But there are very few batteries to recycle at this point so it’s not a continuous operation.

[ferndaleflyer]

And Tesla is building a BIG battery plant right up the road here in NC to build NEW ones...Nothing mentioned about recycle.

[Reisender]

There are a few of these companies operating now including Redwood industries, Li cycle and Tesla itself although tesla only recycled it’s own batteries and the sells the raw materials exclusively to Panasonic which makes them into more tesla batteries.

Lii-cycle is a Canadian company which operates primarily in Europe as well as an operation in Arizona and I think Kingston Canada. They are building additional North American plants though.

Redwood industries is their competitor which was started by an ex tesla exec.

The biggest challenge is getting batteries as vehicle batteries are lasting 4 and 5 times longer than they expected. Teslas new LFP car batteries are considered million mile batteries. And they have zero cobalt.

Interesting times.

[TurnThePage]

Excellent! Unfortunately around here, they still go to land fills if you use the recommended local resources/methods. I'll have to look into this more!

[ferndaleflyer]

Wonder if there is any profit in a recycler in MD shipping old Prius batteries to Arizona? I doubt it.

[QCMan]

Much better than would have been expected. Curious as to the percentage of used batteries that are going there.